Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Jabarn]

this monster reminds me of BTK.. as soon as he's caught he admits it without a care in the world.

Yes, a young BTK. There is an element of pride and enjoyment in what he accomplished. The main difference is BTK left his victims at the scene, although I think in a later one, he may have transported her to a ditch. I’ll have to go back and look.

It makes me wonder about the age range of the targets. Btk’s got older as he got older. Maybe JP identifies more as a kid getting off the bus stop. So glad he was caught.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm sure that JP's parents knew that he wasn't an upstanding citizen at the very least. He is a 20 years old not providing for himself, driving Mommy's car, living in Daddy's house and no direction in life. I'm not saying that they knew he was hiding Jayme under his bed, but in NO WAY do I think his parents thought that JP didn't have issues.

That's not quite what I was saying. Having issues is one thing, having violent tendencies is another. They could have thought that something was a little off about him without thinking that he was capable of committing such a heinous crime.

 

[margarita25]

From the last thread, @UKslueth2018 said:

“I only hope at some point we work out a way to predict or prevent such violent crimes by understanding how these individuals end up this way.. That is totally probably not realistic but whatever can be learnt and applied should be xx“

I think we are always working on this, trying to understand, especially here in these forums.

One thing I’ve taken note of re: this is how often LE says in some words or another that “one can not attempt to rationalize the irrational” (LE on a recent mass shooting). I noticed that the Director of Criminal Investigations (I forgot his name) said something similar in the interview on 48 hours the other night.

 

[mcrazingwill]

At the time that LE passed JP's vehicle, they didn't even know a crime had been committed.

Why did we not hear about this vehicle though after the fact though? Instead they had people looking out for the Challenger and a black SUV.

 

[Scrapper18]

I have skimmed an awful lot in the last day or so, might have missed clarification, but the first report I saw about her escaping said she was barefoot. Then later the report about wearing the too-big shoes. Maybe the barefoot report was just incorrect, or maybe she grabbed his shoes and ran, carrying them without putting them on, only to put them on a few moments after approaching JN but perhaps before going to the neighbor's house?

RSBM - the actual charges, court document, indicate Jayme had on too big tennis shoes and they were on the wrong feet.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Not sure why I didn't think of this before but a few years ago I was talking to Hazmat guy cleaning an oil spill at the lake. He told me diapers are extremely affective if you ever need to absorb liquid. I tried it when house breaking a puppy and couldn't believe how they actually pulled the liquid up and out of the carpet. Also used them after a hot water tank blew. Much better than newspaper. Since then I have heard others also use them for clean up in many different ways. So maybe clean up of oil or gas if he worked on cars? Just a thought. JMO

 

[The Night Watchman]

Jayme said Patterson once got angry with her and hit her with a handle used to clean blinds. He said the punishment would be worse if she angered him again, according to the complaint. Patterson admitted threatening the girl and warning her not to leave the house. He said the girl had at least twice tried to get out from under the bed but that he struck a wall and screamed "to the point where he knew she was scared and she knew that she better never try that again."

Complaint reveals chilling details of Jayme Closs' abduction, captivity

I don't know about anyone else, but Jayme's accounting of Jayme's of her treatment in captivity seems very positive to me. It suggests that the 3 months at the hands of this monster may not have been as horrific as we have imagined.

Now this may be all that is printable now, and/or Jayme hasn't detailed all that happened (which is probably true). It may be so much worse.

But maybe there is a chance in JP's twisted mind that he was isolating, disciplining, and grooming her to eventually want be with him.

I'm going to at least hope that is the case.

 

[Damarna]

No, it's state-by-state. In my state, if a police car is behind you then you have to pull over or, if you can't, then at least slow down so that they can pass. As JP was leaving, however, he passed the cruiser going the opposite direction. That's different.

This is the current law in Wisconsin: State law requires drivers traveling in the same direction and approaching an authorized emergency vehicle or roadside service vehicle, including a tow truck, that is displaying flashing lights and parked or standing on or within 12 feet of a roadway, to vacate the lane closest to the stationary vehicle, if safe to do so, or reduce speed. Also included in the law are utility vehicles and road maintenance vehicles. https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/move-over-law

 

[Alethea]

I asked before today’s hearing, now I’m asking again, she nice we have more information. Does anyone think there is anything the DA could offer in terms of a plea?

I’m not seeing anything. I think CW took a plea because he had skeletons in his closet he didn’t want released. JTP strikes me as a guy who will enjoy rehashing his crime. He will feel powerul and successful as the DA lays out everything for a jury.

Thoughts?

In my experience some defendants, even if they are cruel and heartless, want to spare their family (or even extended family) the embarrassment of a trial and will take a plea to just get it over with and go to jail. You will occasionally hear someone say they didn't want their grandma or mom to have to go through it. With the harsh light of day shining they aren't always proud of what they did. It's rare and the really sick ones that want to make a circus of it - like Joseph Duncan, who insists on representing himself in a series of trials to show how the world wronged HIM and made him into a monster.

But JP's attorneys will advise him honestly based on the evidence what his chances are to get any sort of a reduced sentence or win on police misconduct or something like that. Sometimes you tell your client in your professional opinion there's little to no chance so they might as well start serving the sentence. Obviously there's less of a chance with a double murder but in lesser crimes prisoners want to get the time done and work on good behavior to hopefully get released early.

 

[Vic61]

Newbie here. Please be kind. I have read several posts. Trying to figure it out. Regarding a connection between Jayme and JP: There were previous posts a couple of days ago that JP might be a gamer. Did anyone make the connection between Kia Cards and Games? It was a gaming place with fantasy cards that was in the same building as Christine’s dance, where Jayme danced. Many people were here most evenings to participate in games. I wonder if JP frequented this gaming establishment?
Here is a picture of the sign where both businesses were in the same building. I think Kai games closed just before Christmas. They have a Facebook page.

 

[mtnlites]

Why did we not hear about this vehicle though after the fact though? Instead they had people looking out for the Challenger and a black SUV.

I have no idea. I was just replying to why they didn't have the vehicle stop when they first saw it.

 

[zecats]

I asked before today’s hearing, now I’m asking again, since we have more information. Does anyone think there is anything the DA could offer in terms of a plea?

I’m not seeing anything. I think CW took a plea because he had skeletons in his closet he didn’t want released. JTP strikes me as a guy who will enjoy rehashing his crime. He will feel powerul and successful as the DA lays out everything for a jury.

Thoughts?

Edited to correct auto correct.

I worry that he will plead NG and let it go to trial for the attention HE will receive. The fact that he shared so thoroughly every single detail within the time frame he's been in captivity (4 days?), makes me believe he enjoys the limelight and is relishing in what he believes are his accomplishments and good planning. JMO

 

[Andreee]

I have skimmed an awful lot in the last day or so, might have missed clarification, but the first report I saw about her escaping said she was barefoot. Then later the report about wearing the too-big shoes. Maybe the barefoot report was just incorrect, or maybe she grabbed his shoes and ran, carrying them without putting them on, only to put them on a few moments after approaching JN but perhaps before going to the neighbor's house?

Also, just me and not telling anyone how to post, but personally I would love to see the conversation about the "empty box" stop. Bottom line, if it's irrelevant to the case (ie grandma's etc) we don't need to discuss it. And if it IS relevant to the case, it may be a source of embarrassment for JC, even though it's nothing shameful. If it turns out later to actually be important to the case in any way, it will come up in the legal docs and we can get into it then. MOO but please, think of how some of this will look 20 years from now when folks are reading this as history...

I agree totally! This is completely unnecessary and insensitive to JC to discuss at present.

 

[Vaderman]

Another quote from the complaint:

"[T]he defendant stated he nearly slipped in the blood that had pooled on the floor."

If only he WOULD have slipped. That could've made up the 20 second difference he thought had passed from leaving the residence to passing the law enforcement.

 

[mtnlites]

This is the current law in Wisconsin: State law requires drivers traveling in the same direction and approaching an authorized emergency vehicle or roadside service vehicle, including a tow truck, that is displaying flashing lights and parked or standing on or within 12 feet of a roadway, to vacate the lane closest to the stationary vehicle, if safe to do so, or reduce speed. Also included in the law are utility vehicles and road maintenance vehicles. https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/move-over-law

Interesting to know. As I said, it varies from state to state. There is no such a law for oncoming traffic in mine, though one does have to stop if the cruiser or ambulance is turning in front of them. They always have right of way.

 

[Ibiz]

I'm sure that JP's parents knew that he wasn't an upstanding citizen at the very least. He is a 20 years old not providing for himself, driving Mommy's car, living in Daddy's house and no direction in life. I'm not saying that they knew he was hiding Jayme under his bed, but in NO WAY do I think his parents thought that JP didn't have issues.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the car he was driving was registered to his sister.

 

[MntnHiker]

One thing that surprised me reading the complaint was that I had figured he had stalked the family before the night of the murders, meaning figured out their names, who exactly was in the house, their usual routines and timing of parents being home, etc. It sounds like he did none of that. It was mentioned he learned her name after kidnapping her and learned of her parents' names from seeing them in the media. He showed up twice previously to commit this atrocity but left because of cars in the driveway and then because of lights on/activity in the house.

I think, based on my reading of that document, he didn't know or really care who was in the house or how many people. He just planned to kill whoever else was there besides Jayme.

 

[margarita25]

I worry that he will plead NG and let it go to trial for the attention HE will receive. The fact that he shared so thoroughly every single detail within the time frame he's been in captivity (4 days?), makes me believe he enjoys the limelight and is relishing in what he believes are his accomplishments and good planning. JMO

I’m afraid of this too, he didn’t appear very shameful in the appearance, moo.

But perhaps he will be ashamed of his sexual crimes, should they have occurred, which can often work as a motivator. (For example, Travis Forbes led LE to Kenia’s body under the condition that he not be labeled a sex offender in prison or something like that. IMO Chris Watts may have had some similar thoughts as well about not wanting certain things to come out in trial.)

 

[MassGuy]

One thing that surprised me reading the complaint was that I had figured he had stalked the family before the night of the murders, meaning figured out their names, who exactly was in the house, their usual routines and timing of parents being home, etc. It sounds like he did none of that. It was mentioned he learned her name after kidnapping her and learned of her parents' names from seeing them in the media. He showed up twice previously to commit this atrocity but left because of cars in the driveway and then because of lights on/activity in the house.

I think, based on my reading of that document, he didn't know or really care who was in the house or how many people. He just planned to kill whoever else was there besides Jayme.

That’s my take as well.

I think he had a general idea of how many people were in that house, but didn’t have any knowledge as to the specifics.

He obviously would have no qualms about killing anyone who was not the girl he targeted.

That was his plan.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

There is a chance that JP's parents never saw anything troubling in their son. They may have thought he was a little "odd" or "different", perhaps secretly thought he might have issues that needed to be addressed with a doctor, but never saw any violent or otherwise troubling tendencies in him. When I was a teenager, I was kind of Queen Bee of the weird kids-we were the ones who stayed in the art room during lunch playing D&D, the ones who'd rather go for drives to take pictures of old houses and cemeteries than party, the ones who would do 48-hour video gaming sessions, etc. Parents kicked me out of slumber parties for scaring the other kids with games like "Light as a Feather" and telling ghost stories that were too scary. We were all kind of socially awkward and, until we met each other, loners, but none of us have ever committed crimes. JP could have done a good job of hiding whatever signs there were-IF there were any signs at all. They may have been concerned about his work history, for instance, but shrugged it off as him just "trying to find his way."

Kinda withholding judgment on the parents until we hear more about JP's background, childhood, etc.

It's very possible for a parent to be unaware. We don't know anything about his family situation except his parents divorced. Not saying his parents, but it's easy for kids to lost in the shuffle or if going from one home to behaviors or warning signs are missed. I didn't work when my children were young but I look around now at mothers, especially single mothers, trying to raise their children and I don't know how they do it (they deserve huge credit in my book) If they are dealing with other problems on top of it and/or have little time I think it would be easy to miss what doesn't scream at you. JMO