Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Rubiconbob]

I've had those thoughts as well... They probably debated about it too.

Sherrif or FBI shouldn’t beat himself up.. but should modify protocol.... you never know... he coulda killed jayme and hide his car if apb for that Taurus... on top of that .. there’s millions of Taurus on road...

If he doesn’t take off front plate... the crime is likely done in one day...

Maybe they should just increase fine to $1000 and option to impound if both tags aren’t on car... this sob woulda just stole another tag.. so dunno ... You could what if for 10 yrs on this case...

 

[Tricia]

If a mod tells me it's off topic I will concede.
Personally I don't see discussing trauma bonding as any more off topic than continually evaluating JP's psyche or what happend to him to play into his actions.

It's the flip side of that coin.

And I think important when posters are discussing "why" Jayme didn't move that bed or totes prior to her actual escape. It was starting to look a little victim blamey to me without an understanding of how trauma bonding actually works.

Please let's get back on discussing Jayme and the case. This thread is getting way off track so please. I do not want to ban the discussion of the psychology aspect of this case but let's stop with it being the WHOLE discussion of this case.

There is zero evidence of trauma bonding. Zero evidence of Stockholm Syndrom, so let's not discuss as if these are proven facts.

Yes, I am asking everyone to please stop.

Thank you

 

[Mom24]

Closs family: Appreciate sympathy from suspect's father

“You can't blame the parents," Naiberg told The Associated Press. "A guy becomes 21 years old, and sometimes it's not how he was raised or anything."

Well, to begin with Naiberg's quote of "you can't blame the parents" and then goes on to concede that while sometimes it not how he was raised, also means sometimes it is.
Taking out the hyperbole and the word "blame", we can all agree that a person's home life shapes who they become. If it didn't we wouldn't waste time making patients pay to tell us about their formative years, the years before they have experiences outside their home.
However the word "blame" indicates a knowledge of doing something to get an outcome. In that, I agree with Naiberg, we can't "blame" the parents for the choices that jake made in the days, weeks and hours before the crime nor can we blame them for the choices jake made in the days weeks and hours during the crime. Every day in those 88 days jake made a choice to continue with his crime. But something happened in that home. In that home. Read again, in that home, that precipitated this outcome. My stance is, and will remain, that at the very least his parents turned a blind eye to it and therefore, as the father has stated, they feel some responsibility. Are they to blame? No. Again, two boys, same household, same outcome in terms of criminal behaviors. I suggest something happened in that home, never used the word blame and never used the parents as that precipitating factor in that home.
Probably clear as mud, but without violating TOS, I'll leave it again at, something happened in that HOME. Take it where you will.

 

[PommyMommy]

Jayme Closs' kidnapper lived in 'time warp' without smart phone, former neighbor says | Daily Mail Online
The alleged killer-kidnapper accused of imprisoning Jayme Closs lived in a weird 'time warp' world without a smart phone, social media or even an internet connection, DailyMail.com can exclusively reveal.

Loner Jake Patterson, 21, instead spent his free time holed up inside his family's isolated woodland cabin poring over outdoor survival guides and books about the military.

TR, a longtime former neighbor, told DailyMail.com that Patterson seemed baffled when he first asked him at high school if he had a Facebook account.

'He stared at me blankly and said he wasn't interested in having one. He didn't even seem to have an email account to log onto, he was strictly a notes and paper guy,' TR said.

'His family were nice people but Jake's life was like something from a time warp. If he had a cell phone it was not a smart phone. All he was interested in was books.

'He didn't socialize, he didn't have what you would call real friends, just acquaintances. He just wanted to get home to read about survival and the military.'

‘The last time I was in the house was about two and a half years ago,’ added TR, 21.

‘I never really spent time in Jake’s room but from what I remember he had a twin bed and a nightstand in the corner with at least a dozen books piled up on it.

‘It was just a typical room – minus the computer.’

 

[MyBelle]

I have mixed feelings about this. The father may really feel awful that his son did this and he may truly be sorry for the victims. But my first reactions is that PP should only make a public statement in the press expressing sympathy for the Closs family and Jayme and then leave the family alone. IIRC from court, the judge was clear that JTP was to have no contact with Jayme and JTP is also not to ask anyone else to contact her on his behalf. I'm not saying the father is doing that but a letter from the suspect's father could be taken that way, depending on the contents. If he has only good intentions and is as confused about the motivations of this crime as everyone else, then I imagine that JTP's father is going to eventually want to see his son in prison and ask him why he would do such a horrible thing. If the father also has contact with Jayme's family then the lines have the potential to become blurred on if the father is communicating his own thoughts or his son's when writing to Jayme/her family. MOO and I'm open to being completely off base on this. Maybe I'm too cynical but I wish he would not write any private letters to the family.

You raise very fair points. I think such a letter would not be okay with the DA or the Defense. PF's Dad was sitting in the courtroom when the Judge made the admonition.

JMO

 

[oviedo]

I have mixed feelings about this. The father may really feel awful that his son did this and he may truly be sorry for the victims. But my first reactions is that PP should only make a public statement in the press expressing sympathy for the Closs family and Jayme and then leave the family alone. IIRC from court, the judge was clear that JTP was to have no contact with Jayme and JTP is also not to ask anyone else to contact her on his behalf. I'm not saying the father is doing that but a letter from the suspect's father could be taken that way, depending on the contents. If he has only good intentions and is as confused about the motivations of this crime as everyone else, then I imagine that JTP's father is going to eventually want to see his son in prison and ask him why he would do such a horrible thing. If the father also has contact with Jayme's family then the lines have the potential to become blurred on if the father is communicating his own thoughts or his son's when writing to Jayme/her family. MOO and I'm open to being completely off base on this. Maybe I'm too cynical but I wish he would not write any private letters to the family.

I too have mixed feelings - I think their (JP family) expression of sympathy for the JC family is enough at this point. They (JP family) should not do any more interviews or publicize anything IMO. I would hope the JC family is reading anything that is addressed to her prior to letting her see it -JMO. She really does not need anything added to her stress IMO. If I were the guardian I would not allow anything from his family in my home. but that is just me - I am assuming they are being guided by professionals in her recovery IMO.
eta: spelling clarification

 

[bechk45]

This is incorrect. The dad payed the house off days after JP took Jayme. He could stay there forever as long as the taxes were paid.

Which they were not. The property taxes were in default.

 

[Mom24]

Sherrif or FBI shouldn’t beat himself up.. but should modify protocol.... you never know... he coulda killed jayme and hide his car if apb for that Taurus... on top of that .. there’s millions of Taurus on road...

If he doesn’t take off front plate... the crime is likely done in one day...

Maybe they should just increase fine to $1000 and option to impound if both tags aren’t on car... this sob woulda just stole another tag.. so dunno ... You could what if for 10 yrs on this case...

I agree. Every case teaches LE something new and this one gave them something else to consider for future cases. It's like when Duggard was found. The general consensus was that after a few hours, most abducted children are killed. We learned that's not always true and LE have modified how they proceed with abduction cases.

 

[margarita25]

And I always wondered where the Sheriff's faith that JC was alive the whole time came from. IMO

They always say this, unless there is direct evidence that someone is deceased or they have been missing for a really long time they are going to say they have faith she’s alive, moo. IMO even if they think there’s a good chance she’s deceased (abduction stats are clear that the victim is usually killed within a few hours) they won’t come out and say this, for example Hania Aguilar and Mollie Tibbets, moo.

This is not to say that SF did not have faith that Jayme was alive, he likely did. But just saying ftr imo.

Considering the lengths the perp went to abduct Jayme, this would additionally lend itself to having such faith, moo.

 

[smalltownguy2]

I too have mixed feelings - I think the expression of sympathy for the family is enough at this point. They should not do any more interviews or publicize anything IMO. I would hope the family is reading anything that is addressed to her prior to letting her see it -JMO. She really does not need anything added to her stress IMO. I I were the guardian I would not allow anything from his family in my home. but that is just me - I am assuming they are being guided by professionals in her recovery IMO.

All of the mail being sent to JLC is being screened at this time.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I wonder what was up with that chair that they took. Doesn't seem to fit into any of this

 

[cluciano63]

I don’t mind that the perp’s father wrote a letter to the Closs family. In Kelsey’s case, there was outrage that the other family never acknowledged the Berreth’s loss etc..

 

[Ibiz]

And I always wondered where the Sheriff's faith that JC was alive the whole time came from. IMO

Possibly some kind of FBI profiling. I was wondering if the forensic investigators were able to find the glue from the duck tape on JC's mom's fingers? Could this have been a clue that JC had been bound and taken away?

 

[MsBetsy]

I think what's missing is any knowledge about the "reward" part. From what he told LE, and what Jayme told LE (that we know of, from the CC), he tried to control her solely through fear/intimidation.

He was speaking of that in terms of making sure she stayed under the bed and didn't move, I believe. Both he and the victim said he only did that when he left the house or someone came over. We have no idea how he may have responded when she did what she was told. We have only heard of two incidences when he "punished" her.
We don't know how she was treated the rest of the time, or if she was allowed to walk around or how she passed the time. She described an incident when she was struck on the back and another when he yelled and hit the wall. Both were when she was supposed to stay still under the bed.
Maybe I'm just hoping that was the worst of the violence he inflicted. But I do think it's possible that he didn't always treat her that way while she was kept in captivity. Imo

 

[oviedo]

Jayme Closs' kidnapper lived in 'time warp' without smart phone, former neighbor says | Daily Mail Online
The alleged killer-kidnapper accused of imprisoning Jayme Closs lived in a weird 'time warp' world without a smart phone, social media or even an internet connection, DailyMail.com can exclusively reveal.

Loner Jake Patterson, 21, instead spent his free time holed up inside his family's isolated woodland cabin poring over outdoor survival guides and books about the military.

TR, a longtime former neighbor, told DailyMail.com that Patterson seemed baffled when he first asked him at high school if he had a Facebook account.

'He stared at me blankly and said he wasn't interested in having one. He didn't even seem to have an email account to log onto, he was strictly a notes and paper guy,' TR said.

'His family were nice people but Jake's life was like something from a time warp. If he had a cell phone it was not a smart phone. All he was interested in was books.

'He didn't socialize, he didn't have what you would call real friends, just acquaintances. He just wanted to get home to read about survival and the military.'

Hmm so I wonder if their was a computer or if he even had any online presence at all? or a friend that did, perhaps?

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder what was up with that chair that they took. Doesn't seem to fit into any of this

Mattress either. I imagine they took a lot of items that did not hold clues.

 

[bizzle2]

Head scratcher to put it lightly... why on earth would you not at the very least...

Take the photo from the cop camera... say to everyone at a news conference.. this car is 2009 Taurus that was traveling on HWY 8 at 12:59.... they are not a suspect at all... but we want to talk to them and ask them if they passed any cars on way home, did u see anyone pulled over side of road, anything at all go zooming past you.


It’s like they simply said the Taurus yielded so there cool....WTF... FITZ/FBI are likable but this is kinda weird none follow up.

Totally see your logic here. It's the best clue they had, why not ask the public for help?

However I also see the logic of the other side. The side that says don't release that info.

For starters, I don't think they had a good image of it. The purpose of a dash cam is more for taping officers interactions with citizens, not for identifying vehicles. It won't capture a good image of a darker vehicle on the side of the road at night as an officer passed going 60+ mph. I think all they had was: reddish, might be a Taurus, probably 10-20 years old. Not much.

The obvious follow-up: Why release info on other cars, but not the Taurus? Only FBI/DCI/Fitzgerald know the answer. Can think of two reasons: 1) those cars weren't related and they were just doing it to keep interest on the case, or 2) those cars were on video in the area and LE was looking for them to see if they could get a better description of the Taurus and/or its occupants.

I also believe one could argue that since the Taurus is the only thing they really had, releasing it means they are basically showing all their cards. If the perp knows LE is looking for a Taurus the first thing he would do is get rid of it. So by releasing that info, they are giving the perp an opportunity to remove his connection to the only thing they have.

Also, withholding it would give them something to weed out potential suspects. Call about a suspicious person comes in to the tip line. "Does he own or have access to a red Taurus? He does? Let's check this one out with a fine-toothed comb."

And finally, as I've seen mentioned before, knowing that LE is looking for a Taurus could make the perp panic. Which wouldn't be good for Jayme.

I'd be curious to know if LE was considering releasing the description of the Taurus at the news conference they scheduled right before she was found.

Again, I see plenty of reasons both ways.

 

[Mom24]

I have mixed feelings about this. The father may really feel awful that his son did this and he may truly be sorry for the victims. But my first reactions is that PP should only make a public statement in the press expressing sympathy for the Closs family and Jayme and then leave the family alone. IIRC from court, the judge was clear that JTP was to have no contact with Jayme and JTP is also not to ask anyone else to contact her on his behalf. I'm not saying the father is doing that but a letter from the suspect's father could be taken that way, depending on the contents. If he has only good intentions and is as confused about the motivations of this crime as everyone else, then I imagine that JTP's father is going to eventually want to see his son in prison and ask him why he would do such a horrible thing. If the father also has contact with Jayme's family then the lines have the potential to become blurred on if the father is communicating his own thoughts or his son's when writing to Jayme/her family. MOO and I'm open to being completely off base on this. Maybe I'm too cynical but I wish he would not write any private letters to the family.

That's a great thought, but having been in the situation I would fear JC reading the papers at some point and seeing that and what that would entail. I think I would encourage him to write something and put it together to read in the courtroom and address the family there. I know they allow victim impact statements, I'm sure they'd allow him the opportunity to express himself as well as he is also a victim, imo.

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

Well, seems like they didn't have a clear enough view of it to release details, it wasn't a tactical move not to release it.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.co...ct-passed-deputies-in-ford-taurus/2583899002/

'Fitzgerald said Tuesday that the passing car was discussed during the investigation, but they didn't feel they had enough information to alert the public to it. It was dark, and police were traveling fast, so it was difficult to determine the make, model and other details, he said.

“We didn’t have any specific information about that car," he said. '

 

[margarita25]

All of the mail being sent to JLC is being screened at this time.

Welcome smalltownguy2