Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[gitana1]

When I heard this 911 call I was confused as to why the operator asked if JC was "running". No one has brought it up, but yet I'm still confused by why she would ask such a question. .

The dispatcher sounded like she wanted to make sure Jayme was with the rescuers voluntarily and wasn't going to bolt out of fear or other reasons. By that point lots of people had speculated that this innocent little girl could've been involved (ridiculous IMO), and sometimes victims are just terrified and may not think straight. So I think she was just finding out the mindset of the kid.

 

[jjenny]

Wow, I hope I'm misunderstanding that you minimize what Jayme has gone through. Both her father and mother had their heads blown off (her mother's right in front of her in a tiny bathroom), she was taped up, thrown into a cold, dark trunk for two hours, then stuffed under a bed for 88 days....at 13 years old! She didn't know if she would ever get away. What could really be worse?

Exactly. I don't know how she didn't go insane.

 

[Quill]

Actually they do receive training for that.

VIDEO: Volvo driving school teaches police how to handle ice

Like I said, you can train how to approach it how to respond to it but driving on ice is always unpredictable.

 

[gitana1]

I am not aware of how to bring over a post from an old thread that has just closed, so I will post the link and what was said, and then put in my response. Hope it's not confusing.

Found Alive - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

By Kaboom

"I'm not at all impressed. She was slow as hell. It took 30 minutes to get them there. That is not quickly. She asked all the typical dumb questions that 911 operators ask today.

I'm more impressed with the caller who was a social worker and was coordinating what help was needed. The operator made her justify why medical help was needed. The social worker pointed out that she should be treated for shock and hypothermia . The 911 operator still blew her off and didn't send that help. That is just bad training. At very least paramedics should be sent to check out a victim of a violent crime. That is just common knowledge, which apparently that operator doesn't possess."

............


I disagree, that she was slow as hell. One of the hardest things to do for a nine-one-one operator is to keep them calm and on the phone when they are very upset and the people can't get to them quickly enough. They drove very far away to get there as quickly as they could. She had a lot of people in her ear, and I see nothing lacking in what she did.

I heard that the paramedics were indeed dispatched, but they decided to take her away from the crime scene immediately. Also, the scene was not secure at that time for them to enter and the decision was to take her away immediately in the police cars for her safety because she was not in a life-threatening health situation, which the 911 operator had confirmed..

Douglas Co. Officials Explain Why Jayme Closs Response Took So Long

JAN 15, 2019
Douglas Co. Officials Explain Why Jayme Closs Response Took So Long
When local law enforcement got a 911 call that Jayme Closs had been found , multiple Douglas County Sheriff deputies were sent to the scene. However, from the time the call came in to them arriving took 30 minutes.

As for why the response took so long, Douglas County Sheriff Lieutenant Chris Hoyt told WDIO News, the first three responding deputies were working patrol at the time and available for calls.

The first time stamp from their AVL log was at 4:16 p.m.

One deputy was coming from County Hwy E in the Hawthorne Wisconsin area, 28 miles from the Kasinkas home. The responding time took 25 minutes.

Another deputy responded near lake Minnesuing on County Highway P, 29 miles away. His response time also 25 minutes.

The third responding deputy was 45 miles away in Superior. His response time was 29 minutes.

Two other deputies not working patrol assisted, one arriving on scene at 4:42 p.m. and the other at 4:53 p.m.

All were traveling over 100 miles per hour.

ETA typos

BBM. THANK YOU!!! Nice post.

 

[KaaBoom]

Does it really make any sense to you that LE didn't get there as fast as they possibly could? And, they weren't driving on highways to get there, and had decisions they had to make en route about getting to Jayme AND getting to the killer perp's house before he had a chance to elude them again.

I think they should have gotten there as fast as they possible. The first problem was that the operator didn't take the call serious to begin with. She clearly thought it was a hoax. And I agree they were further delayed, because they were making plans. You can hear that on the tape. Which has been a problem at many mass shootings. The cops are outside making plans while people are getting shot inside. The police must respond as fast as possible, and that didn't happen in this case.

 

[Quill]

There seems to be a misunderstanding regarding what taxidermy is or is not.
A 12 year old who gutted various dead and decaying animals called " roadkill" is experimenting and playing with pathogen-ridden refuse for the shock value, as seen by his efforts being used to scare his little girlfriend at the time.

Professional taxidermy is likely either very familiar or at least somewhat familiar to ALL of us and there is a clear cut distinction between a professionally mounted deer head, or a pheasant poised with wire as if in flight with no residual tissue or bacteria, from what a 12 year old could and would do at home.

We have friends who have what they consider to be very valuable and possibly sentimental, IDK, professionally mounted deer heads, steer heads ( it's Texas and the steer was a prized and loved steer, usually) and I know they spend thousands of dollars to get clean, non-deteriorating lifelike work done by an adult who has special skills and training to be a taxidermist. We often eat at a landmark Texas restaurant which has famous prize winning steer head mounts in almost every space on their walls, and according to my husband who ate at the same restaurant 35 years ago, they are not new mounts but are the same apparently very special steers who have graced the walls for many years.

IMO, it is not a valid argument to favorably or equitably compare
what has been said about a boy's likely dismemberment, removing all internal organs and tissues, skinning, and stuffing some really weird old dead thing in the backyard or basement with actual taxidermy specimens of normal to exceptional quality using freshly dead and properly frozen or otherwise preserved animals for professional work.

JP had issues which began when he was a child, IMO, according to what we have just started finding out. If he didn't think his " animal work" was creepy, why would he throw a dog's head on his girlfriend? Answer- He knew it was weird and creepy and that's WHY he did it. He wanted to provoke her into a startled reaction, and she threw him out. He retaliated with a criminal act of destruction- JP slashed the tires of one of the family's cars.

<modsnip>

I'm clear on what taxidermy is and in my state you have to be licensed to do it. I do think its creepy if this guy was dabbling in it at home on his own. But at this point I also take the girl's account with caution anyway.

 

[The Dude]

I'm truly astonished that anyone would criticize anything that happened on January 10th. From Jayme "Katniss" Closs to the Doctors and Nurses at the hospital, you could not have scripted a better chain of events - especially considering the circumstances and adverse conditions. I guess some people are never satisfied.

 

[gitana1]

Father of Jayme Closs' Alleged Kidnapper Apologizes to Her Family in Letter
The father of the man accused of kidnapping 13-year-old Jayme Closs apologized to her family after his son appeared in court via video conference Monday.

PP, the father of 21-year-old suspect Jake Patterson, sent a handwritten note to Jayme's family expressing sorrow and shame at the murder of her parents and her kidnapping.

"He wanted my family to know that he was sorry and he was crying," Jayme's cousin JA told Inside Edition.

Arnold added that she knows the Patterson family is coping with their own grief. In court Monday, Patrick wept openly and left walking hand-in-hand with his other son, Erik Patterson.

"I feel sorry for them," she said. "My heart goes out to them because when these things happen, families don't always know. I don't hold any hard feelings against them. I know they're having their own kind of struggle."

Aww. So gracious.

 

[Hope4More]

That is their spin on it, and their math doesn't add up. As for the operator, she wasn't doing anything to keep them calm. They were keeping themselves calm. The operator even said that.

The operator started the call off as if it was a false report. I doubt that she even dispatched the help, until well into the call.

Have you actually listened to the whole 911 call? During which you can hear the conversation between the 911 dispatcher? The conversations that dispute your assertions LE wasn't in hurry, that the dispatcher didn't inform LE almost immediately that Jayme had escaped, that the dispatcher wasn't working in concert with the folks sheltering Jayme to protect her and make sure she was approached /treated appropriately, etc, etc?

 

[KaaBoom]

She was eventually taken to the hospital where she spent one night.

Sheriff says "Jayme is the hero in this case," updates investigation

That should have happened immediately, not later. The social worker even told the operator that. Hospitals are a good safe location. The victim can receive treatment and be interviewed by police at the same time in the hospital.

 

[Rubiconbob]

This has probably been discussed but I can't keep up. The fact that JP appeared to have no plan to keep Jayme, ie prepped room or similar, is incredibly odd. And he knew people would be coming to visit, such as his father.

It seems that he may have never planned on keeping her beyond a day, days, weeks; which is horrifying to think about.

He also said he would shoot at LE if he was stopped. This is pretty close to suicidal. No long term plan there either. Could the most important part of his "fantasy" be to kill people in cold blood? Like a video game.

And I wonder if Jayme somehow switched something in JP that made him unable to take further action. Executing people he never met before would be easier than killing a child that you were with for 88 days. This theory assumes that he had a shred of humanity, which might be a reach.

I think your spot on... I wouldn’t be surprised if he thought plan this, get girl, abuse girl, destroy evidence, possibly off himself... but done in 1/2 days

I think he could have been stunned he got away with it.. then kept her either for needs.. or boredom.. as time went on he only grew in confidence that they had no idea...like he said 2 weeks home free.. if this nut listened to any local am radio he’d have heard the
Standard theories

Gotta be boyfriend
Gotta be druggie houseguest
Gotta be foster cousin
Gotta be Somali jenni o employee that chopped his fingers off

At some point he had to hear that crap and think ... the idiots in this town have no clue .. even websluethers are debating Somali guy vs panty thief..,

Maybe he got tired of no credit and wanted her to bolt... I don’t know how u pass 3 cop cars after offing 2 people and think... we good.. but he did.

And that Somali guy that chopped his fingers off, he did something..

 

[pepper 34]

Cops should be trained to drive fast in all condition. I have seen police chase videos of cops driving over 100 mph on snow and ice in heavy traffic. They can do it, when they want to.

And then we'd be having a discussion about how LE killed a mother and her 3 children in a car on the way to the call and how LE drives fast when they want to. But, too bad, this time, with snow and ice on the roads, they should have known better... they're trained to know better. (That's why they behaved exactly as they did... they are trained to know better and they did it just right, imo.)

 

[JaneEyre]

I can tell you from experience that when you are sliding sideways off a road directly toward a telephone pole, even 30 mph feels too fast. We needed all available cops to get there as soon as possible but in one piece! They needed all hands on deck, all cops uninjured and ready, all cars un-crashed, etc. They also needed not to rip down main streets in little towns in between at 100 mph and kill civilians. This is all common sense.

 

[Mom24]

There seems to be a misunderstanding regarding what taxidermy is or is not.
A 12 year old who gutted various dead and decaying animals called " roadkill" is experimenting and playing with pathogen-ridden refuse for the shock value, as seen by his efforts being used to scare his little girlfriend at the time.

Professional taxidermy is likely either very familiar or at least somewhat familiar to ALL of us and there is a clear cut distinction between a professionally mounted deer head, or a pheasant poised with wire as if in flight with no residual tissue or bacteria, from what a 12 year old could and would do at home.

We have friends who have what they consider to be very valuable and possibly sentimental, IDK, professionally mounted deer heads, steer heads ( it's Texas and the steer was a prized and loved steer, usually) and I know they spend thousands of dollars to get clean, non-deteriorating lifelike work done by an adult who has special skills and training to be a taxidermist. We often eat at a landmark Texas restaurant which has famous prize winning steer head mounts in almost every space on their walls, and according to my husband who ate at the same restaurant 35 years ago, they are not new mounts but are the same apparently very special steers who have graced the walls for many years.

IMO, it is not a valid argument to favorably or equitably compare
what has been said about a boy's likely dismemberment, removing all internal organs and tissues, skinning, and stuffing some really weird old dead thing in the backyard or basement with actual taxidermy specimens of normal to exceptional quality using freshly dead and properly frozen or otherwise preserved animals for professional work.

JP had issues which began when he was a child, IMO, according to what we have just started finding out. If he didn't think his " animal work" was creepy, why would he throw a dog's head on his girlfriend? Answer- He knew it was weird and creepy and that's WHY he did it. He wanted to provoke her into a startled reaction, and she threw him out. He retaliated with a criminal act of destruction- JP slashed the tires of one of the family's cars.

<modsnip>

Jana, no one is saying they don't believe him capable of doing those things, what we're saying is the tale is suspect. If it were being reported by ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX as well, then we'd all accept it as verified. DM can be hit or miss on their reporting, and we all know that people come out of the woodwork for a few dollars and a minute or two of fame in these cases. That's the issue, not whether or not we believe he is capable, but questioning the accuracy of the reports.
The ex-gf states this happened, but we have no proof he threw a dog head on her, routinely played with dead animals, slashed her tires, or even was his gf.
At this point we're not even sure the pics we've seen are truly the room where JLC was kept, does that mean we don't believe she was held hostage by him? No, it means that we're questioning the validity of the story and the media that is carrying both the gf story and the pics of the inside of the home.
Those are not excuses for his behavior, they are questions as to the validity of a rumor.

 

[cody22]

I guess it could go back to his LE interview where he said that she was the chosen girl he would take when he saw her at the bus (paraphrasing) either he wanted the thrill of the kill and the taking and then murder or all of the above except he planned to keep her? I just don’t know how this kind of mind works JMO I’ve been thinking the latter - a companion

A companion possession who would never leave him alone as his family had?

 

[LaborDayRN]

Aww. So gracious.

JA showed a great deal of empathy here.

 

[gitana1]

I'm truly astonished that anyone would criticize anything that happened on January 10th. From Jayme "Katniss" Closs to the Doctors and Nurses at the hospital, you could not have scripted a better chain of events - especially considering the circumstances and adverse conditions. I guess some people are never satisfied.

Sometimes I think when things this terrible happens, we as humans aren't satisfied with one mere human being held responsible. I admit, I'm guilty of those feelings at times. We seek ways to find more people to blame because the crime is so unfathomable and big. So, LE failed to stop a random car as they sped toward an unknown crime. They failed to publicize info about that car during the investigation. LE wasn't fast enough getting to an escaped Jayme. His parents enabled him. His parents should've known he was dangerous and worked incessantly to get him "help". Teachers, neighbors, family, friends all ignored clear red flags. And on and on.

Thus far the reality is I can;t see that anyone dropped the ball or didn't do what they were supposed to. I thought the response was great by LE in a rural area like that. But man, even knowing the outcome, listening to the call, you just feel this anxiety, like "Hurry! Before he comes back!!!"

 

[KaaBoom]

This has probably been discussed but I can't keep up. The fact that JP appeared to have no plan to keep Jayme, ie prepped room or similar, is incredibly odd. And he knew people would be coming to visit, such as his father.

It seems that he may have never planned on keeping her beyond a day, days, weeks; which is horrifying to think about.

He also said he would shoot at LE if he was stopped. This is pretty close to suicidal. No long term plan there either. Could the most important part of his "fantasy" be to kill people in cold blood? Like a video game.

And I wonder if Jayme somehow switched something in JP that made him unable to take further action. Executing people he never met before would be easier than killing a child that you were with for 88 days. This theory assumes that he had a shred of humanity, which might be a reach.

I agree. I don't think he ever thought he would get away with it. He clearly had no plans to keep her long term. In the report it said, that after two weeks, he thought he had gotten away with it. I think he was surprised that he got away with it. Then he had to figure out what to do with her.

 

[tnith]

I think they should have gotten there as fast as they possible. The first problem was that the operator didn't take the call serious to begin with. She clearly thought it was a hoax. And I agree they were further delayed, because they were making plans. You can hear that on the tape. Which has been a problem at many mass shootings. The cops are outside making plans while people are getting shot inside. The police must respond as fast as possible, and that didn't happen in this case.

BBM

There's several issues to work out.

-You believe 911 exists to ensure the swiftest possible dispatch

-You believe 911 operators are not required to assess situations as part of their position and duty requirements (this is certainly something to consider)

Therefore,
-You believe 911 services are responsible to be 'infallible'.

In my humble experience, there is a saying about getting what one wants, and it involved picking 2 of 3 requirements

 

[mtnlites]

Jana, no one is saying they don't believe him capable of doing those things, what we're saying is the tale is suspect. If it were being reported by ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX as well, then we'd all accept it as verified. DM can be hit or miss on their reporting, and we all know that people come out of the woodwork for a few dollars and a minute or two of fame in these cases. That's the issue, not whether or not we believe he is capable, but questioning the accuracy of the reports.
The ex-gf states this happened, but we have no proof he threw a dog head on her, routinely played with dead animals, slashed her tires, or even was his gf.
At this point we're not even sure the pics we've seen are truly the room where JLC was kept, does that mean we don't believe she was held hostage by him? No, it means that we're questioning the validity of the story and the media that is carrying both the gf story and the pics of the inside of the home.
Those are not excuses for his behavior, they are questions as to the validity of a rumor.

Yes, that's it. I feel like many of us have explained this but instead of hearing, "I am taking THIS particular publication's story with a grain of salt, though I still believe the guy is a psychopath", people are hearing, "I don't believe he's capable of doing such a thing." And around and around we go.