Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[ilovechili]

I agree. And lots of people that have anti-social personality disorder will never harm anyone. Its something that is still poorly understood I think.

Totally true. They may be misunderstood and may have problems with norms and fitting in, may act out, etc. but would never ever kill anyone as you said. I am glad that is being made clear. The same goes with things like autism or ADHD, etc. I think it is much more than just one thing with someone like this. The only thing I do see is what is probably a major lack of empathy maybe that may be a somewhat common trait in such perps. And again, I am talking as a total average person, certainly no expert on any of it.

 

[gitana1]

No idea. I have asked for a link from those posting about it but am still waiting.

Then maybe we should just move on and ignore the continued attempts to bash LE and dispatch response to this situation.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Then maybe we should just move on and ignore the continued attempts to bash LE and dispatch response to this situation.

Agree!

 

[oviedo]

Missing Wisconsin teen Jayme Closs' family celebrates her return
snipped
Jayme was taken to a hospital Thursday night and held overnight for observation.
IMO - I am not seeing anything other then taken to a hospital - but I remember seeing an article about her being in a police car driven by a female officer ? Let me look

 

[ilovechili]

We've seen so many problems with set up to benefit someone else. Who sets it up? Who controls it? Who sets the beneficiary, who pays the income taxes. Plus takes a small percentage. A far better route is to just set up a trust at a local bank and let people donate directly to it.

I would like to add to this by saying there was at least one article or newscast that already said there were false ones in her name--there was one verified to be a true cousin and that one has already, last I heard, reached the goal and been taken down. There is an account I believe at Sterling Bank, local, for the family, maybe someone else has that info.

One of my biggest problems with is last I knew it is not a small percentage, they take 10 percent don't they? I mean it is great it can reach people being online, easy to set up, etc. BUT they take a big chunk. You also do not know who is behind it. The local bank takes nothing to my knowledge and it even probably pays a small amount of interest.

 

[oviedo]

I've never heard of a victim like this not taken directly to a hospital. The social worker said she appeared in shock. But regardless, that's where they do evidence collection for certain crimes.

I think someone is simply trying to stir the pot.

Yes, I think the OP was maybe trying to say she was glad the people that kept JC safe during the 911 call might have offered her a change of clothes, etc. which may have hurt evidence collection IMO

 

[Karinna]

Missing Wisconsin teen Jayme Closs' family celebrates her return
snipped
Jayme was taken to a hospital Thursday night and held overnight for observation.
IMO - I am not seeing anything other then taken to a hospital - but I remember seeing an article about her being in a police car driven by a female officer ? Let me look

Yes it's in the CC
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/jayme+closs+complaint.pdf

 

[doublestop]

We've seen so many problems with set up to benefit someone else. Who sets it up? Who controls it? Who sets the beneficiary, who pays the income taxes. Plus takes a small percentage. A far better route is to just set up a trust at a local bank and let people donate directly to it.

Thanks. I never gave thought to the income tax question, for one.

 

[oviedo]

"They identified her … got her in the car and got her out of there instantly,” said Kasinskas, who works at Louisiana Pacific in Hayward. His wife is a teacher at Northwood High School.
snipped
Jayme Closs rescue: Neighbors, gun ready, waited for police with her – Twin Cities

 

[PayrollNerd]

I have been thinking about JCs grandfather stating JC wants to go back to school... (see link). How wonderful is that to hear? This 13 year old child, so strong & brave, willing to jump right back in to regain control of her life. I hope she does get her school requirements under her belt even if a bit of tutoring and summer school is necessary. She can smoothly go forward in her education, her social group, graduate with her peers, etc. She will avenge her parents deaths with her future as she sees it. She has had 3 months to think about the way she wants to honor them. I know she will do them proud.

Closs family: Appreciate sympathy from suspect's father | Southern Minnesota News

 

[ilovechili]

One of things I find so sad, is that Jayme knew her parents had been murdered that night. But she never really got a chance to grieve since she was in survival mode for 3 months. Now that she is free and safe and with loved ones, that can happen. That must be very difficult. Hopefully her aunt and uncle and counselors can help her sort through all those emotions. I honestly can't imagine how she must be feeling.

Agree and if okay, I would like to add to this to say sometimes too one cannot grieve properly while the justice process is taking place--it halts it particularly if a perp is loose and/or while one is awaiting justice and the outcome. One grieves, I don't have the words on how to put it, yet feeling like the victim(s) is/are resting in peace is difficult until justice comes. I have no idea how hard it must be if one does not get justice.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

FYI: Per court record

Wisconsin Circuit Court Access
01-16-2019
Notes
Additional text:
01/14/2019 Probable Cause Statement/Judicial Determination unsealed with redactions."
BBM

 

[gitana1]

Totally true. They may be misunderstood and may have problems with norms and fitting in, may act out, etc. but would never ever kill anyone as you said. I am glad that is being made clear. The same goes with things like autism or ADHD, etc. I think it is much more than just one thing with someone like this. The only thing I do see is what is probably a major lack of empathy maybe that may be a somewhat common trait in such perps. And again, I am talking as a total average person, certainly no expert on any of it.

I don't know. I'm not an expert either but anti-social personality disorder is more than just problems with norms and fitting in. It's really just the DSM term for psychopath or sociopath from what I understand.

I don't want to contradict Prairie, but they're known for harming others:

Overview
Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.
Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes

Symptoms

• Disregard for society's laws
• Violation of the physical or emotional rights of others
• Lack of stability in job and home life
• Irritability and aggressiveness
• Lack of remorse
• Consistent irresponsibility
• Recklessness, impulsivity
• Deceitfulness
• A childhood diagnosis (or symptoms consistent with) conduct disorder

Antisocial Personality Disorder | Psychology Today

Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder
Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is diagnosed when a person’s pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15 (although only adults 18 years or older can be diagnosed with this disorder) and consists of the majority of these symptoms:

• Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
• Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
• Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
• Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
• Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
• Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
• Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Antisocial Personality Disorder Symptoms

But something one of our verified mental health pros said on the Watts family threads was that the diagnoses in the DSM were created for insurance billing purposes and that they aren't always reflective of reality! That blew my mind.

She was explaining that many or most people don't fit into neat, diagnostic categories as much as our minds insist that they must.

It really opened my eyes. I like fitting things into boxes. I liked my universe organized.

But apparently the reality is that few perps will be able to be precisely categorized. There will be cross over and missing characteristics.

Interesting.

 

[Gardener1850]

Missing Wisconsin teen Jayme Closs' family celebrates her return
snipped
Jayme was taken to a hospital Thursday night and held overnight for observation.
IMO - I am not seeing anything other then taken to a hospital - but I remember seeing an article about her being in a police car driven by a female officer ? Let me look

Here are links to the 911 transcript and the criminal complaint:
Jayme Closs found: The 911 transcript - CNN
https://media.channel3000.com/mmm-w...01901141243_1547498223382_29678410_ver1.0.pdf

During the 911 call the dispatcher explains:

Dispatcher: "And I'm just going to paging out medical. I'm going to have them stage in the area, because I don't want anybody to come up into the house until the deputies get there. But I want them in the area, OK?

In the criminal complaint we learn one of the deputies drove Jayme away from the K house and they passed JTP in his car.

Jayme ended up at the hospital. I think we can conclude Jayme was driven to the waiting EMS vehicle and then to the hospital. At least one police officer spouse chimed in on the thread last night and said that is usually how it is done when a suspect is on the loose in the area in order to to keep EMS personnel safe. Regardless of how Jayme got to the hospital she was taken there as soon as it was safe and she was kept overnight.

MOO.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Goodness, I've just been lurking here but it's so hard to stay caught up.

I feel so badly for Jayme. And knowing the horror she went through. It's just so sad that her parents lost their lives trying to protect their little girl. I can't imagine poor Denise's last moments and Jayme having to see that is just heartbreaking.

I am not at all a religious or spiritual person but really, the fact that it was a nice, older woman walking her dog who came across Jayme and with a dog? And a social worker with experience with children? That part just seems like it couldn't have been better. Ms. Nutter did a fabulous job as did the family whose house they ended up at.

I just hope now that JP gets what's due to him and Jayme gets the ongoing love and help she will need. She may not have her parents but she is a lucky girl to have such a close and supportive extended family and aunt to take care of her.

You touch on something I’ve been thinking about and it’s the presence of dogs in this story. First, there’s Molly, Jayme’s beloved pet who barked and warned Jayme of JP’s car pulling in the driveway. Molly, waiting for Jayme to come home, Molly in pictures reunited with Jayme.

Then there’s Henry, the dog who needed a walk which took Jeanne Nutter, Jayme’s rescuer, outside on January 10th. Ms Nutter describes Henry as a goofy Golden Retriever. Awwww jeesh, not any more!

At the Kasinskas home, where Jeanne Nutter and Jayme found safety, Jayme was introduced to their new puppy, Penny who certainly calmed and distracted Jayme. And during Jeanne Nutter’s 30 minute call with 911 dispatch, Henry apparently jumped into Jayme’s lap as you could hear her admonishing the dog to get down and stated “he never does that!”. So funny, that break from the tension. Maybe Henry got jealous of Penny (or he just wanted to clown around!).

I’ve thought of the tremendous capacity for love that dogs possess and believe in their intuition as well. As hokey as it sounds, dog IS God spelled backwards, isn’t it? These dogs have been angels.

 

[Lillymac]

I would say bc takes a pretty good chunk? I have heard there are a lot better ways out there to do crowd funding other than

Go Fund Me info on Google.

Keep in mind that according to their Pricing and Fees page, though, even free personal campaigns will still be charged a 2.9 percent payment processing fee, along with a $0.30 fee that is assessed per donation.

 

[Lillymac]

Then maybe we should just move on and ignore the continued attempts to bash LE and dispatch response to this situation.

Totally agree. Thank you.

 

[Lillymac]

You touch on something I’ve been thinking about and it’s the presence of dogs in this story. First, there’s Molly, Jayme’s beloved pet who barked and warned Jayme of JP’s car pulling in the driveway. Molly, waiting for Jayme to come home, Molly in pictures reunited with Jayme.

Then there’s Henry, the dog who needed a walk which took Jeanne Nutter, Jayme’s rescuer, outside on January 10th. Ms Nutter describes Henry as a goofy Golden Retriever. Awwww jeesh, not any more!

At the Kasinskas home, where Jeanne Nutter and Jayme found safety, Jayme was introduced to their new puppy, Penny who certainly calmed and distracted Jayme. And during Jeanne Nutter’s 30 minute call with 911 dispatch, Henry apparently jumped into Jayme’s lap as you could hear her admonishing the dog to get down and stated “he never does that!”. So funny, that break from the tension. Maybe Henry got jealous of Penny (or he just wanted to clown around!).

I’ve thought of the tremendous capacity for love that dogs possess and believe in their intuition as well. As hokey as it sounds, dog IS God spelled backwards, isn’t it? These dogs have been angels.

Love this. God put his precious four legged angels here for just this purpose. I have always loved that dog is God spelled backwards.

 

[ilovechili]

I don't know. I'm not an expert either but anti-social personality disorder is more than just problems with norms and fitting in. It's really just the DSM term for psychopath or sociopath from what I understand.

I don't want to contradict Prairie, but they're known for harming others:

Overview
Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.
Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes

Symptoms

• Disregard for society's laws
• Violation of the physical or emotional rights of others
• Lack of stability in job and home life
• Irritability and aggressiveness
• Lack of remorse
• Consistent irresponsibility
• Recklessness, impulsivity
• Deceitfulness
• A childhood diagnosis (or symptoms consistent with) conduct disorder

Antisocial Personality Disorder | Psychology Today

Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder
Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is diagnosed when a person’s pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15 (although only adults 18 years or older can be diagnosed with this disorder) and consists of the majority of these symptoms:

• Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
• Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
• Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
• Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
• Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
• Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
• Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Antisocial Personality Disorder Symptoms

But something one of our verified mental health pros said on the Watts family threads was that the diagnoses in the DSM were created for insurance billing purposes and that they aren't always reflective of reality! That blew my mind.

She was explaining that many or most people don't fit into neat, diagnostic categories as much as our minds insist that they must.

It really opened my eyes. I like fitting things into boxes. I liked my universe organized.

But apparently the reality is that few perps will be able to be precisely categorized. There will be cross over and missing characteristics.

Interesting.

It is interesting. And I may be mixing up just being anti-social with the disorder because again, no expert here either so maybe in my non-expert mind I am thinking more like every anti-social individual may not and would not ever kill, not the actual disorder. I get your wanting things to fit in boxes--I am this way with this case, I want the pieces of the puzzle to fit (to hope it does not happen again and we can see what went wrong I guess or what to watch for) and so far they do not to me--not all of them anyhow. I dislike the labels though when it comes to mental health, etc. I understand the need for them to a point as you said insurance, characteristics to diagnose, etc. But also like you said there will be cross over and missing characteristics. I do think and feel more help is needed and such things should not be ignored, take a parent that looks for help and can't find any for instance or a adult that looks for it as well and can't find it. To comment more on that would probably touch on politics and I know better than to go there.

 

[Blueberry2720]

FYI: Per court record

Wisconsin Circuit Court Access
01-16-2019
Notes
Additional text:
01/14/2019 Probable Cause Statement/Judicial Determination unsealed with redactions."
BBM

Could someone please explain this in non-legal/lay person's terms? TIA.

ETA: Please see my post further down about Googling the info.