Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[mi_hiker]

Criminal case against Jake Patterson not a simple one even though he said 'I did it'

Interesting story on MPR this morning (sorry if already posted).
3 takeaways...
1. Defense will likely try to plead insanity, but it is likely to be struck down because of his level of planning and coherence.
2. There is nowhere in the state that would be better for JTP. Everyone knows about this story.
3. Douglas County is hoping they won't have to file charges at all. If JTP pleads guilty they likely won't. If they have to file charges they are anticipating a media circus.

My thoughts on item 3. When I read this summary my stomach turned thinking that someone with knowledge of the case was saying going public with those charges would create a media circus. That to me meant they were so horrible they would cause a media sensation. When I read the article the person speaking was only going off their professional experience as well as what has been released in the media. While I have no doubt her experience was the stuff of nightmares I just wanted to point out that at this point, this is just one persons speculation, not confirmed fact.

From the article:

Former Ramsey County Attorney Susan Gaertner said prosecutors are holding the best hand right now. She said there's still the possibility that Patterson will be charged for crimes he allegedly committed in Douglas County, Wis., where Patterson allegedly held Jayme for 88 days.

But Gaernter said the prosecutors in Douglas County will have to weigh the pros and cons before they make a filing decision.

"I think that the care they're taking to not make a media display of sensitive, highly-personal information about what might have happened during her captivity," said Gaertner. "I respect that approach a lot."

Gaertner said Douglas County will not need to "pile on" more charges if Patterson is convicted and receives the maximum sentence.

 

[JaneEyre]

I had that thought as well. I also thought the mere sight of a bathtub might cause flashbacks.

I had not thought of this until now. How horrible. I also have PTSD that is triggered by something standard that must be done multiple times a week. It is hell. I don’t know how she will ever get over it. I haven’t been able to get over mine.

 

[mtnlites]

My thoughts on item 3. When I read this summary my stomach turned thinking that someone with knowledge of the case was saying going public with those charges would create a media circus. That to me meant they were so horrible they would cause a media sensation. When I read the article the person speaking was only going off their professional experience as well as what has been released in the media. While I have no doubt her experience was the stuff of nightmares I just wanted to point out that at this point, this is just one persons speculation, not confirmed fact.

From the article:

Former Ramsey County Attorney Susan Gaertner said prosecutors are holding the best hand right now. She said there's still the possibility that Patterson will be charged for crimes he allegedly committed in Douglas County, Wis., where Patterson allegedly held Jayme for 88 days.

But Gaernter said the prosecutors in Douglas County will have to weigh the pros and cons before they make a filing decision.

"I think that the care they're taking to not make a media display of sensitive, highly-personal information about what might have happened during her captivity," said Gaertner. "I respect that approach a lot."

Gaertner said Douglas County will not need to "pile on" more charges if Patterson is convicted and receives the maximum sentence.

This part stood out to me:

"One can premeditate a crime, but you could be delusional. You could give some thought, for example, 'I have to do this because God is commanding me to do these things.' So, to the extent things would be thought out or pre-planned, but they would be under a complete delusion — a delusional set of reality," Goetz said.

That idea has been running through my mind, too. He can admit to the crime, even admit to planning it, but still not be working with a full deck of cards. It is possible that his attorneys could try to argue that, although he committed the crime, his thinking, perception, emotion and judgement impaired his mental function to the point where he requires care or treatment.

Please note that I said *could* and *try.* I clearly do not believe this was the case myself. And I don't think his attorneys will go this route or that, if they did, they would be successful. I am simply commenting on the subject of the article and considering defenses that have been used on other seemingly slam-dunk cases in the past.

 

[bechk45]

This part stood out to me:



That idea has been running through my mind, too. He can admit to the crime, even admit to planning it, but still not be working with a full deck of cards. It is possible that his attorneys could try to argue that, although he committed the crime, his thinking, perception, emotion and judgement impaired his mental function to the point where he requires care or treatment.

Please note that I said *could* and *try.* I clearly do not believe this was the case myself. And I don't think his attorneys will go this route or that, if they did, they would be successful. I am simply commenting on the subject of the article and considering defenses that have been used on other seemingly slam-dunk cases in the past.

I did think the same. It didn't fly in the Elizabeth Smart case though and was quite legitimate. He really did think God was telling him to do that stuff.
These defense attorneys are going to have a really hard time getting him less than life in prison. (I really hope at least.)

 

[OneParticularHarbor]

And the exact same thing with the shooter of the community college in Oregon. Kicked out after five weeks - even the same time period. Umpqua Community College shooting - Wikipedia

I think this is the incongruity I'm feeling about this. He has the apparent background and "personality" of a school shooter, more so than a hunter/serial killer. I wonder what made the difference. This is going to be a very interesting chapter in psych books.

 

[mtnlites]

I did think the same. It didn't fly in the Elizabeth Smart case though and was quite legitimate. He really did think God was telling him to do that stuff.
These defense attorneys are going to have a really hard time getting him less than life in prison. (I really hope at least.)

It hasn't worked in a lot of cases. I hope it doesn't in this one, either. I hope he cops a plea.

John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, and Charles Manson all had
Anti-Social Personality Disorder. Jeffrey Dahmer and Aileen Wurnos had Borderline Personality Disorder. Ed Gein, Richard Chase, David Gonzalez, and David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) were all schizophrenic. None of these defenses flew, either. Still, sometimes they do try. Dahmer tried to plead insanity but failed. Gacy's defense attorneys tried the insanity defense, but they also failed. And sometimes it changes. Ed Gein, for instance, was found fit to stand trial but was later found to be insane at the time of the murders and was sent to a psychiatric hospital. Berkowitz was initially found mentally incapable of assisting in his own defense with the argument that he did not understand the charges against him. Psychiatrists concluded that his paranoid psychosis left him emotionally dead and unable to assist in his own defense. However, this was challenged later and different doctors decided that while he MAY have been insane at the time of the murders, that with treatment he could now participate in his defense.

So it's really hard to say. You'd think with all the information they currently have, including his confession, that there isn't a GOOD defense that anyone could try. But there have been some awfully weird cases in the past, too.

 

[Lillymac]

I was away from my computer yesterday where I have photo's saved. There was a question about the blinds and then later there was a question about the door.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpj3olLW0AA8qcU.jpg
Here is a pic with the blinds on the left window all the way up
https://s3-ca-central-1.amazonaws.c.../11/2018/10/15152619/IMG_20181015_1141581.jpg
Then at some point they were lowered

https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/8o3LjaitEhpA6x0UluXSdA/o.jpg
Here is a pic of the small window ( before the crime ) James was shot through

Thank you for posting this. I looked but couldn't find it. In response to one of my posts someone posted JP could have unlocked the door by reaching thru the shot out window. I don't believe he could have reached the lock. What do you think

 

[mtnlites]

Thank you for posting this. I looked but couldn't find it. In response to one of my posts someone posted JP could have unlocked the door by reaching thru the shot out window. I don't believe he could have reached the lock. What do you think

It doesn't look like he could. I am torn, however, on whether he even would have if it was possible. Although it seems like he enjoyed the thrill of what he did (IMO), which makes me think he would've shot it anyway, he was in and out very quickly and killed with few shots.

 

[Mistermagoo]

Thank you for posting this. I looked but couldn't find it. In response to one of my posts someone posted JP could have unlocked the door by reaching thru the shot out window. I don't believe he could have reached the lock. What do you think

Most likely not.

 

[Lorelei1]

I think this is the incongruity I'm feeling about this. He has the apparent background and "personality" of a school shooter, more so than a hunter/serial killer. I wonder what made the difference. This is going to be a very interesting chapter in psych books.

I was just thinking about how JP allegedly slashed his grade 9 girlfriend’s mother’s tires after the ‘breakup’. If this story is true could it have had something to do with him wanting to punish JC’s mother or parents when he took JC? It sounds unlikely but who knows what sort of twisted thoughts or fantasies he may have had.

 

[mtnlites]

I was just thinking about how JP allegedly slashed his grade 9 girlfriend’s mother’s tires after the ‘breakup’. If this story is true could it have had something to do with him wanting to punish JC’s mother or parents when he took JC? It sounds unlikely but who knows what sort of twisted thoughts or fantasies he may have had.

At grade 9, his girlfriend wouldn't have been driving (she'd have been 14 or 15) and wouldn't have had a vehicle. Her mother's vehicle was probably a proxy since he couldn't do anything to HER vehicle.

 

[Lillymac]

It doesn't look like he could. I am torn, however, on whether he even would have if it was possible. Although it seems like he enjoyed the thrill of what he did (IMO), which makes me think he would've shot it anyway, he was in and out very quickly and killed with few shots.

I agree. That would have taken time and he wanted in immediately. You'd have to be rational to think of that and he wasn't.

 

[pepper 34]

His discharge was because the “character of his service was incongruent with Marine Corps’ expectations and standards.”

That’s incredibly vague, and admittedly, I’m not an expert in this sort of thing (I didn’t get kicked out).

From my understanding, this could be a result of an unwillingness to train, failure to follow instructions, or just unsettling or bizarrre behavior.

We know that he has a poor work history (huge understatement), so my guess is that he couldn’t handle authority, and didn’t do what he was told.

All day, every day, consists of you following orders. You don’t do anything without first being told to. From waking up, to brushing your teeth, to eating.

It’s the exact opposite of what he would be willing to do.

Out of context, I got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach and fresh tears filled my eyes when I read what I bolded in your comment. I wondered if the murdering Marine reject didn't turn around and inflict the same philosophy of his aborted training onto Jayme while enjoying himself as a result. ...and she just being a small 13 year old girl and him somehow reviving and restoring his bruised and battered ego (exacerbated by that 5 weeks of failure and rejection.) He recreated similar conditions in the house where he kept Jayme, except, he was the all powerful, sadistic drill sergeant and she was the powerless new recruit. I agree with those members who feel Jayme's days were numbered and would have ended soon. I think Jayme escaped just in time and I'm so grateful for every person who helped her after she freed herself.

 

[margarita25]

I think this is the incongruity I'm feeling about this. He has the apparent background and "personality" of a school shooter, more so than a hunter/serial killer. I wonder what made the difference. This is going to be a very interesting chapter in psych books.

(This is very interesting to me and one of the first things that crossed my mind, moo.)

 

[PrairieWind]

Anti social personality disorder is just that, a personality disorder. It is not mental illness that can be used as a defense. I see no signs in JP that he is mentally ill or mentally deficient. Those defenses will NOT be successful. However, if the public defender is hinting that they will try it, so be it. At this point, the prosecutor needs to proceed with the case. I am getting the feeling that this WILL go to trial.

 

[PrairieWind]

I also think that Douglas County needs to prepare to file their charges as well. As much as we all hate that thought, I think they need to get ready for that fight.

 

[Investgator]

I was wondering if jayme closs get the money she deserves it

 

[Rosiebones]

It doesn't look like he could. I am torn, however, on whether he even would have if it was possible. Although it seems like he enjoyed the thrill of what he did (IMO), which makes me think he would've shot it anyway, he was in and out very quickly and killed with few shots.

I always thought that there was a young man up for a thrill component to this. I always thought that the shots were fired on the way out. Guess I was half right about that. But, in all, he could have gone into her room through the sliding glass door and taken her quickly. The thing he could not control was her barking little dog, Molly. And. my head hurts trying to make rational sense out of an irrational, horrifying act.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I also think that Douglas County needs to prepare to file their charges as well. As much as we all hate that thought, I think they need to get ready for that fight.

Even if Douglas County does not file charges, I am sure that we will unfortunately find out things that we don't want to know. All we know right now is where she was when he wasn't there, we have no idea yet of where she slept and what went on when he was home

 

[gitana1]

I think this is the incongruity I'm feeling about this. He has the apparent background and "personality" of a school shooter, more so than a hunter/serial killer. I wonder what made the difference. This is going to be a very interesting chapter in psych books.

He's kind of a mash of both. But I don't think he will ever be a chapter in a psych book. Few of these weirdos have thorough psych assessments that are made public and as I've come to understand many people don't fit neatly in diagnostic boxes anyhow. There's too much cross over.

I don't think we will ever get a satisfactory answer. Or be able to note something that we can use to prevent this stuff.

"He was a quiet guy. Kept to himself." I've heard that since I was a kid in the 70's to describe sudden rampagers, etc.

But hundreds of thousands of people can be described similarly and don't commit crimes.