Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Confusion]

I'd have to go back and check but I believe the officer's statements filed with the criminal complaint are sworn statements. [Confirmed].

Perhaps a law enforcement officer can chime in here and answer the following:

Do you write up your daily reports before your shift ends?

What steps are taken to prove your investigative records are contemporaneous, and not drafted, and/or altered, after the fact?

MOO

ETA: Confirming that Criminal Complaint was Subscribed and Sworn to. I also hope this puts to rest that Deputy Fink's account of the older Ford Taurus was in fact his statement on 10/15/18, and not his written account after the arrest of JP.

The Criminal Complaint further includes the following:

The statements made by the law enforcement officers can be considered truthful, credible, and reliable because of the positions of trust they hold. The statements of the citizen witnesses can be considered truthful, credible, and reliable because they are made by citizen witnesses. The statements of the defendant(s) can be considered truthful, credible, and reliable to the extent to which they are admissions against interests

I hate it when people do this, but do you have a link to the document with Deputy Fick's statement on it signed on 10/15/18? The only thing I have is the Criminal Complaint dated 1/14/19, which was 4 days after the arrest. I just don't remember reading anything about a maroon Taurus before the arrest, and I want to make sure there's nothing else on there that I may have missed. TIA

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Bummed to see the conversation is back to second-guessing LE. Fitzgerald said they didn't mention the Taurus because they didn't want the Taurus driver to know they were looking for it. That's good enough for me.

OT note: I really want to set up a dialogue between @SeekingJana and @Dave F. just to see those matching doggies barking back and forth...

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I take NOTHING the perp said as fact. He is playing what he thinks is a smart *advertiser censored* game with LE. I get that a confession and a statement, etc. are used in charging documents, etc. but that in no way means it is the truth that he told, particularly if not corroborated. IMHO. The entire license plate thing bothers me, I do not believe he did not have a better idea of what he was walking into and had stalked this family whether online or in person, and more. Taking a plate off or switching plates or both?? Never modified the trunk or car until on your way that night? Took a back (sort of) road to someone's home to steal a plate? We shall see, but this is not all of it, just initial documents in the case. And perhaps we shall never see. I don't buy 1/2 of what he said, if any. Just my opinion.

I agree -- no reason to take as gospel what he says. I, like others, suspect he went back and scoped out the house several times before he finally acted -- and I mean beyond the couple of times he said he went to commit the crime and backed off. But, I could be completely wrong. This guy is stupid. Literally stupid. And what he says may well have happened like he said -- because inexplicability could be the residue of stupidity.

 

[Confusion]

I don't think he's smart at all. I think he is afraid of and submissive to authority. The way he was captured and the fact that he did so many things he thought would obscure his identify (so his father would not find out) and the fact he had two failed attempts at the abduction makes me think he is very timid in the face of authority and adults in general.

Thank you, that sounds so much better than him being smart. A fear of authority could also be why he shot JC through the door rather than just turning and leaving again; he may have been afraid he'd come out after him. MOO

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Bummed to see the conversation is back to second-guessing LE. Fitzgerald said they didn't mention the Taurus because they didn't want the Taurus driver to know they were looking for it. That's good enough for me.

OT note: I really want to set up a dialogue between @SeekingJana and @Dave F. just to see those matching doggies barking back and forth...

I've been behind because the threads move so fast. That's true? "Fitzgerald said they didn't mention the Taurus because they didn't want the Taurus driver to know they were looking for it."

If so, ok -- I can't argue that wasn't the case. I just haven't read where he actually stated that. And that may well be because I'm behind . . . and drinking . . . and, like, doing other things that I enjoy.

 

[The Dude]

Bummed to see the conversation is back to second-guessing LE. Fitzgerald said they didn't mention the Taurus because they didn't want the Taurus driver to know they were looking for it. That's good enough for me.

OT note: I really want to set up a dialogue between @SeekingJana and @Dave F. just to see those matching doggies barking back and forth...

The problem is that there were two statements that conflict each other, and just a day apart. Fitzgerald had not only said what you referred to, but also that there wasn’t enough information to worry about that car at all. And if that car was such a good lead, why did they not find it?

 

[Seattle1]

I've been behind because the threads move so fast. That's true? "Fitzgerald said they didn't mention the Taurus because they didn't want the Taurus driver to know they were looking for it."

If so, ok -- I can't argue that wasn't the case. I just haven't read where he actually stated that. And that may well be because I'm behind . . . and drinking . . . and, like, doing other things that I enjoy.

That's the rub, he hasn't actually stated it. But he must have a reason, and perhaps will reveal it later. And I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I've been behind because the threads move so fast. That's true? "Fitzgerald said they didn't mention the Taurus because they didn't want the Taurus driver to know they were looking for it."

If so, ok -- I can't argue that wasn't the case. I just haven't read where he actually stated that. And that may well be because I'm behind . . . and drinking . . . and, like, doing other things that I enjoy.

@The Dude is correct; there were two conflicting statements. What I was referring to is here, the last tweet in the post -- but it's a reporter's comment, not a direct LE quote: WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

My apologies.

I still feel like we've been asked not to second-guess LE though.

 

[ilovechili]

Bummed to see the conversation is back to second-guessing LE. Fitzgerald said they didn't mention the Taurus because they didn't want the Taurus driver to know they were looking for it. That's good enough for me.

OT note: I really want to set up a dialogue between @SeekingJana and @Dave F. just to see those matching doggies barking back and forth...

I walk between it. I do not think for most it is second guessing LE. We may well find out there was a strategy and this was part of it. It is about learning from each thing IF there is anything to learn I think both for parents, people involved in the case, etc. It is not about wanting to believe anything was done wrong and yes, it is easy to second guess after the fact, but it also shows what if an average person questions with differing accounts, what a defense attorney could do with the same conflicting accounts and so forth. It is a concern for most, I believe, at least it is in my case, of would this have made a difference for a missing child, why are there conflicting accounts (in many cases that can just be media or too many cooks in the kitchen will spoil the broth so to speak with many involved in a big case), and will he get justice or will a defense attorney question these same things...

You just said the sheriff said they were looking for it, can you give a quote for that other than some Lou someone? The only one I read was just the opposite from the sheriff. And that Lou person linked nothing to my knowledge.

Again, I want to stress for me, it is not bashing LE, it is wanting to know. It is easy for any of us to second guess when we have the few facts we do and some come out or they conflict. It is about that the case and victim matter and if something was missed, it is good for all to know. If something was being done behind the scenes, then good for them. It has to be a hard call to decide what the best odds/chances are and how to handle it. But we do not know that.

I think there is much we do not know here and we may well find this was a strategy. However, what we know so far shows no such thing. If it was not, then it is a good thing to review on why did we not look at that or put that out there.

Only an average citizen and easy to judge but in my case and I think most people's cases, it is not a bashing of LE, it is wanting to know why these things conflict and if we found they did not look at it, the next thing said by most well then I hope the next time (hopefully there never is one), they remember that and do otherwise. If it was a tactic and it contributed, then wow and kudos.

But we don't know that.

 

[The Dude]

@The Dude is correct; there were two conflicting statements. What I was referring to is here, the last tweet in the post -- but it's a reporter's comment, not a direct LE quote: WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

My apologies.

I still feel like we've been asked not to second-guess LE though.

I think we can be “LE Friendly” while still asking legitimate questions about procedure and conflicting public statements. Of course, I may be harshly corrected for that any minute now. Here - hold my juice box.

 

[Oakland CA]

Yes, but why wouldn't it be suspicious? If they asked for people who were driving by between 12:30 and 1:30 to call, and the owner of that car description had not called, I don't think they would have just dismissed it. There had to have been a reason. I wonder if they were looking into the car, but were thrown off because of the license plate. Imo

BBM
Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

That's the rub, he hasn't actually stated it. But he must have a reason, and perhaps will reveal it later. And I'm going to leave it at that.

Thanks -- he'll state it, if it's true, I have no doubt.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

@ilovechili no I don't have a better quote. I read that tweet and mistakenly assumed it was information from LE that was being shared; big mistake!

But the tweet fit my own interpretation (that LE held back the car info intentionally/strategically) so of course I confirmation-biased it!

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

@The Dude is correct; there were two conflicting statements. What I was referring to is here, the last tweet in the post -- but it's a reporter's comment, not a direct LE quote: WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

My apologies.

I still feel like we've been asked not to second-guess LE though.

Thanks -- some might see it as second-guessing. I can clarify, at least on my end, the goal: truth.

 

[ilovechili]

I think we can be “LE Friendly” while still asking legitimate questions about procedure and conflicting public statements. Of course, I may be harshly corrected for that any minute now. Here - hold my juice box.

Very true. I want to believe like we all do that LE is perfect and there and will save us all. But the conflicting accounts are difficult and I think in my very juice box contributed to humble opinion they are reasonable questions. There may very well be a good reason. And there may very well be much we do not know. Hard to say. The only statement I have seen that came straight from the sheriff as a quote sounded as if it was not even on their radar (paraphrasing).

Most just want to understand whys and hows and that we are not the victim in the case but we want it never to happen to anyone else or our own and the more one can learn (if it can ever be predicted, stopped, etc.), the better.

Back to my juice...

ETA: Meaning we are not the victim in this case but most cannot imagine, majorly empathize (which most of these perps do not) wanted her saved, want to never see such a thing happen again, and want to do what we can or learn what we can to stop it (if that can even be done). Why are most here otherwise? Anyhow....

 

[crhedBngr]

(Raises hand to weigh in)

When Jessica Ridgeway went missing and also when she was found (well part of her ), and when LE told us flat out there was a very dangerous active predator whom they think is likely local and close ( ), and for the community to “remain vigilant” (as I’ve said before in other cases,imo when LE uses the word “vigilant” that’s a red flag); anyway.

This was a serious situation obviously and we were all scared to death (for the kids). I’ve said before it was like being in a real life horror movie...

If course anything can happen at anywhere anytime. As mentioned above no amount awareness would have saved Jayme from this type of abduction (in your home ).

It was a fine line, how we communicate with the kids. We want them to know how serious this is to be aware, not run off alone, sigh having a hard time saying f what I’m saying.

Here it is. I basically had to scare them silly but not traumatize then. That was a fine line.



My point I guess is that awareness is always important.

Ps:

O/T, please see this post from the Watts thread. Jessica’s family reached out to donate stuffed animals left at her memorial since blankets are being made from the stuffed animals at the Watts memorial. Quote in progress

(Wow that was a hard post to get out.)

{{{Cyber HUG}}}

 

[Karinna]

I think it was said that he sometimes drove a white car. He had about 7 or 8 cars on the property. Imo

Right, thanks for clarifying. Yes i did see in an msm article a few cars described on the property.

 

[Karinna]

Very true. I want to believe like we all do that LE is perfect and there and will save us all. But the conflicting accounts are difficult and I think in my very juice box contributed to humble opinion they are reasonable questions. There may very well be a good reason. And there may very well be much we do not know. Hard to say. The only statement I have seen that came straight from the sheriff as a quote sounded as if it was not even on their radar (paraphrasing).

Most just want to understand whys and hows and that we are not the victim in the case but we want it never to happen to anyone else or our own and the more one can learn (if it can ever be predicted, stopped, etc.), the better.

Back to my juice...

BBM, Yes we think LE is sometimes other than human in crime prevention and solving, but of course we know that is not always the case. Same as doctors, they can't always save lives, they are all only human after all and we all make mistakes sometimes. I certainly don't envy their jobs, and they deal with life & death situations on a daily basis, and thank goodness they are strong enough for such difficult work. All IMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I hate it when people do this, but do you have a link to the document with Deputy Fick's statement on it signed on 10/15/18? The only thing I have is the Criminal Complaint dated 1/14/19, which was 4 days after the arrest. I just don't remember reading anything about a maroon Taurus before the arrest, and I want to make sure there's nothing else on there that I may have missed. TIA

In response to your request for Deputy Fick's Statement, please note the following. Detective Jeff Nelson is affirming for all the reports by LE.

Detective Jeff Nelson Subscribed and Sworn to the Criminal Complaint together with Brian H. Wright, District Attorney.

On pg 2, Detective Nelson has sworn that he had access to Deputy Fick's report, and just before his signature, includes that the statements made by the law enforcement officers can be considered truthful, credible, and reliable because of the positions of trust they hold (pg 12).

Reference: Criminal Complaint pg 2/12

PROBABLE CAUSE:

Basis for this complaint is a statement by Jeff Nelson that he is a Detective with the Barron County Sheriff’s Department and as such has access to all reports and complaints filed with his department. Complainant is informed by the reports of Deputy James Pressley, Deputy Jon Fick, Deputy Erik Sedani, Detective Mary Dexter and Detective Jason Hagen of the Barron County Sheriff’s Department and Deputy Dittbrender, Deputy Carey and Sgt. Derosia with the Douglas County Sheriff’s Department. ...

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I think we can be “LE Friendly” while still asking legitimate questions about procedure and conflicting public statements. Of course, I may be harshly corrected for that any minute now. Here - hold my juice box.

No doubt -- LE has been there when I wanted them and when I didn't. Impossible job to do and keep everyone happy. I can say without hesitation that I am thankful LE is there 24/7.