Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #42

[MassGuy]

I think that we are going to find out more. I'm not saying that I don't believe that he first seen her get on the school bus, i'm saying that he watched and planned more that just what is being stated.

Why are you giving him so much credit?

Taking in to account his psychology, I am absolutely stunned that he actually made prior attempts at committing this crime, and ultimately backed off.

The wait must have absolutely killed him.

I’m not sure how he was able to even do that, let alone go to further stalking efforts.

If anything, I’d be more willing to discount the idea that he even staked out the house in the first place.

 

[ilovechili]

I think that we are going to find out more. I'm not saying that I don't believe that he first seen her get on the school bus, i'm saying that he watched and planned more that just what is being stated.

I believe that or can believe the reverse of it too. He had seen her before and had no idea who she was and saw her getting on the bus and thought there is that girl I noticed at such and such that caught my eye and now I know where she lives, how lucky am I? Who knows how such a mind works. I also can believe taking a job in that area could have had some reason behind it, whether he never saw her or did, or there are some ties in that area or some such.

We do not even know that the parents supported him. We have no idea. That is all speculation. He could have a green thumb. Who knows right?

 

[MassGuy]

The Internal injuries by grandpa is par for course... this family is all ghosts ...no specifics.

Why would you not say narrowing of spine ,
Heart problem or the actual issue.

Massguy.... lemme ask you is it even possible to qualify for full disability if your booted from marines after 30 days.??? Either mental or physical?? Surely u can’t if your just 30 days .......?

It is my understanding that if he was kicked out for medical reasons (he wasn’t), he’d be eligible for VA medical care.

With the discharge being what it was, I don’t think it makes him eligible for even that.

He certainly would not be receiving any disability compensation.

 

[Mistermagoo]

Why are you giving him so much credit?

Taking in to account his psychology, I am absolutely stunned that he actually made prior attempts at committing this crime, and ultimately backed off.

The wait must have absolutely killed him.

I’m not sure how he was able to even do that, let alone go to further stalking efforts.

If anything, I’d be more willing to discount the idea that he even staked out the house in the first place.

I agree, criminals can be stupid. If only the shoe bomber would have tested his bomb in the bathroom, he could've got off that plane not in federal custody. However, JP seems to have planned his attack and it just seems odd that he did all that with the limited amount of recon that he is claiming.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree, criminals can be stupid. If only the shoe bomber would have tested his bomb in the bathroom, he could've got off that plane not in federal custody. However, JP seems to have planned his attack and it just seems odd that he did all that with the limited amount of recon that he is claiming.

His crime wasn’t complicated, and required very little planning.

When you violently attack a home in the middle of the night, you don’t need much preparation.

You just need motivation, a gun, and the willingness to kill.

There was nothing subtle here. Just overwhelming force.

Extensive recon wasn’t necessary.

 

[Seattle1]

His profile strikes me as that of someone with antisocial personality disorder. Unstable relationships, inability to hold down a job despite normal intelligence. The only thing that doesn't really fit is that his family thought he was normal -- usually the family knows that there is some sort of problem, even if they don't really appreciate the full extent of it.

I have to keep reminding myself that JP is only 21. I believe that he was introvert, quiet, immature, and more significant signs of ASPD (most likely around puberty) went unnoticed by family when his divorcing parents were struggling, overwhelmed, with another child's criminal behavior.

From all reports, JP was a good student, and from the comments by school admin, I also don't think parents were getting calls from school about discipline issues with JP. I also think JP's dream of joining USMC, and his actual enlistment, fueled parents denial. However, I do believe there was a dose of reality 3 years ago when JP was discharged from USMC -- confirmation to his parents and/or family that something really isn't right with JP. I also believe JP, very skilled at manipulation, immediately went into victim mode with his parents, and has been playing that card ever since. If anything, these parents have been living afraid that JP would hurt himself, and not others. MOO

 

[Mistermagoo]

His crime wasn’t complicated, and required very little planning.

When you violently attack a home in the middle of the night, you don’t need much preparation.

You just need motivation, a gun, and the willingness to kill.

There was nothing subtle here. Just overwhelming force.

ok

 

[ilovechili]

His crime wasn’t complicated, and required very little planning.

When you violently attack a home in the middle of the night, you don’t need much preparation.

You just need motivation, a gun, and the willingness to kill.

There was nothing subtle here. Just overwhelming force.

Extensive recon wasn’t necessary.

I go back and forth between smart and not. A perp knows what they are planning, the victims have no idea anyone is even thinking about it nor does LE as far as where, what, when. It does not make the perp smart. They just have the total advantage.

I do think he maybe wants or needs to believe he is smarter than the average bear... The reason for that is hard to say.

jmho.

 

[Bravo]

I have a feeling life with JP wasn't easy. Sociopaths enjoy making your life miserable. It makes them happy. I think for a time Family turmoil was enough. He may not have had trouble with the Law (that we know of as a juvenile) or school but I am betting life at home with him was rather hellish. IMO these Parents walked away feeling everything that went wrong in his life is their fault. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

I go back and forth between smart and not. A perp knows what they are planning, the victims have no idea anyone is even thinking about it nor does LE as far as where, what, when. It does not make the perp smart. They just have the total advantage.

I do think he maybe wants or needs to believe he is smarter than the average bear... The reason for that is hard to say.

jmho.

It’s about ego and pride. If he has an opportunity to make himself look better (in his eyes atleast), he will take it.

That’s why if he’s going to lie, he’ll exaggerate his genius in regard to this crime.

He’ll also lie about what he did to Jayme, as that will make him look worse.

So I take nothing that he says at face value, unless it jibes with known facts, and what Jayme says.

He’s not going to minimize his planning, but he will inflate it.

 

[Julia966]

His crime wasn’t complicated, and required very little planning.

When you violently attack a home in the middle of the night, you don’t need much preparation.

You just need motivation, a gun, and the willingness to kill.

There was nothing subtle here. Just overwhelming force.

Extensive recon wasn’t necessary.

Overwhelming force and a decent amount of luck. If James hadn't apparently mistaken him for a cop, things might have gone quite differently. Or if he had taken just 20 more seconds, the police would have been there.

I wonder why James thought he was LE.

 

[Seattle1]

The area we are talking about generally the factories hire temps for full-time shifts in general with the chance to become permanent if you work out. It is a way of avoiding benefits and everything else. It is not like where you replace someone that is sick at an office for a few days. Most of them that is the only way they hire. The worst ones ditch even good people (instead of appreciating finding a good employee with no risk) and find a reason after 3 months (not even sure they need one, it is on the temp agency) so they do not have to pay benefits.

Not saying all, but many. Can't say this was the case here but it is pretty common these days in many states. I will not touch on politics but it has been that way for awhile.

ETA: So if I had to guess, he was hired to do a full-time shift of 12 hours as general factory labor with his lack of work experience. In October. Just my guess, could be wrong.

Wisconsin, like many other states, has programs for the poor, underemployed, and unemployed, separate from Unemployment Insurance-- which requires "real" work history which we know JP did not have. Seems several temp agencies have been contracted to assist Wisconsin in carrying out new eligibility practice for continuing aid. Although not confirmed, I believe JP was likely receiving food aid. Working with temp agency may simply have been to keep his benefits. MOO
For Wisconsin’s poor, a painful new model for food-stamp aid

 

[MassGuy]

Overwhelming force and a decent amount of luck. If James hadn't apparently mistaken him for a cop, things might have gone quite differently. Or if he had taken just 20 more seconds, the police would have been there.

I wonder why James thought he was LE.

JP yelled something to the effect of “get on the ground.”

I think James was confused by this, and his mind naturally went to law enforcement.

 

[ilovechili]

It’s about ego and pride. If he has an opportunity to make himself look better (in his eyes atleast), he will take it.

That’s why if he’s going to lie, he’ll exaggerate his genius in regard to this crime.

He’ll also lie about what he did to Jayme, as that will make him look worse.

So I take nothing that he says at face value, unless it jibes with known facts, and what Jayme says.

He’s not going to minimize his planning, but he will inflate it.

Agree totally. I see no reason to believe what he says, we have seen he lies. Does his overall account fit what we know? Of course. Is it everything? I seriously doubt it. And has he shared everything? I would not be so sure about that either.

 

[ilovechili]

Wisconsin, like many other states, has programs for the poor, underemployed, and unemployed, separate from Unemployment Insurance-- which requires "real" work history which we know JP did not have. Seems several temp agencies have been contracted to assist Wisconsin in carrying out new eligibility practice for continuing aid. Although not confirmed, I believe JP was likely receiving food aid. Working with temp agency may simply have been to keep his benefits. MOO
For Wisconsin’s poor, a painful new model for food-stamp aid

He also could have did a job for a day or two and said ouch, I fell. All sorts of possibilities... It would be off subject but it might surprise you how many kids learn these kinds of things that come from very good families and were good students and just where do they learn it--like just let a car rear end me... I have overheard a conversation or two in my lifetime at a graduation party or two. And was quite shocked, particularly by the kids that were discussing it. One had to wonder how much looking for a free ride has to do with some things... Not that I am any expert--I have learned with hindsight that kids always are being taught things and nowadays have new apps and such that parents cannot even keep up with.

*has* not had

 

[MassGuy]

He also could have did a job for a day or two and said ouch, I fell. All sorts of possibilities... It would be off subject but it might surprise you how many kids learn these kinds of things that come from very good families and were good students and just where do they learn it--like just let a car rear end me... I have overheard a conversation or two in my lifetime at a graduation party or two. And was quite shocked, particularly by the kids that were discussing it. One had to wonder how much looking for a free ride has to do with some things... Not that I am any expert--I have learned with hindsight that kids always are being taught things and nowadays have new apps and such that parents cannot even keep up with.

I wouldn’t be surprised if his job history had a far simpler explanation:

He cannot handle authority, doesn’t get along with others, and simply doesn’t have the constitution for hard work.

 

[deugirtni]

Here is a study (from 2007, but likely still relevant) about discharge during Basic Training of Marines. Talks about age, level of fitness beforehand, ethnicity, etc. I'm not sure we can guess that it was mental issues. It must have been disappointing for him, whatever it was.
The pdf file is attached, but it came from this link: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a496815.pdf

 

[Irmese]

School buses pick up students pretty early which is why my kids HATED taking the bus. They had to get up much earlier because the bus makes so many stops, it takes a long time to actually arrive. And it wants to let the kids off early enough to get to lockers etc, so it is an early pick up. JMO

My daughters' middle school had late start at 9 AM every Wednesday.

 

[deugirtni]

I find it disturbing that we know so much about how this crime was committed, how the perp avoided detection, etc., because surely there are young psychos looking at this case and learning how not to go wrong.

 

[ilovechili]

I wouldn’t be surprised if his job history had a far simpler explanation:

He cannot handle authority, doesn’t get along with others, and simply doesn’t have the constitution for hard work.

That makes far more sense. But they kind of go hand in hand. It is still looking for an easy ride and no supervisor and I belong at the top of the place that hires me, my boss doesn't know , OR of looking for a free and easy ride. And most parents for the last what, 20 years, can say every child says I am not going to be a burger flipper (at 16 when told to get a part time job) and I am not going to college in our home area. I will bet though many people can identify with it. Or I am not going to school for something like CPA or nurse, I want to be an artist, an MSM anchor. I guess it has always went on to a point but look at the stuff nowadays.... And then there is the military thing... I think I have been having a day of thinking out loud

ETA so with the supervisory thing, I have no work experience and mom and dad I am not going to work or I quit because I know more than they do and I should start at the top (in one's own mind, not said to mom and dad necessarily). Smarter, entitled in his own mind, insecure, or manipulative with bigger problems he has reason to have? Hard to say.