OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[Deleted member 237253]

Anyone else think the Ws were posting on social media, like Websleuths and others, commenting on news articles, floating any theory that didn't involve them, casting aspersions on the victims, and steering the consensus?

Could be why a certain website was shut down recently. New poster here, been lurking. Back on topic.

 

[Cool Cats]

So true. I remember a comment Reader made very early to the effect whoever did it didn't care too much about keeping the babies safe. Anyone know where that's at?

At the very end of this article Reader says that the 3 children left in the homes could have died, especially Kylie, if not found soon enough.

Pike County sheriff: Rhoden children still in danger

 

[Cool Cats]

Would they have only bugged the one room, or did the bug only capture talk of revenge? Was there no talk about "the act(s)" committed? If so, why did they leave that out of the indictments? That would be very damning.

Why bug FW's home? The 4Ws weren't living there.

They had pieces parts of a silencer, that they'd found much earlier, from the former searches, but DeWine said the investigator's discovery of a homemade gun silencer in late October was a critical piece of evidence (@5:58) (but we have no searches of any properties, in the timelines, for the date it was discovered). If it's a human CI, they could have given up the silencer as a show of good faith (especially if they have a history, as many CIs do).

Folks have thought that the two families may have been into the drug business with one another. A CI that was trusted by the Ws, but was facing a sentence, would be a likely candidate for a CI, who could wear a wire (or place a bug).

Just some afternoon thoughts.

.....My 2 Cents.....
Likely bugs were placed in more than one room. They try to get the places where people talk. The kitchen table or dining room table area, and the TV room area, places where people sit down to talk.

Possibly Fred was bugged during the searches of her farm, we know they were searching in Fred's house because they found the vests in Billy's bedroom. (I'm under the impression the vests were found in a bedroom that's still kept for Billy in Fred's house.)

As for why bug Fred's home since the 4 lived elsewhere? They probably did bug the Webster home where the 4 were living after Alaska, but they worked for Fred and visited over there so why not bug her place too? Likely the family gatherings were all held over there also.

And yes it is possible that some of the Wagner 4 were caught talking about the actual murders that were committed on April 22nd, but that wouldn't be put in the indictment.

This would be part of the conspiracy and would be actual evidence to go towards proving them guilty of the murders. It would be part of the discovery the prosecution would have to turn over to the defense.

The Prosecution would still need to prove at trial that these are the Wagner's actual voices on the wiretap tapes, and prove exactly what was said. Then the Jury would decide the weight those wiretapped conversations hold over
the guilt or innocence of the Wagners.

 

[Gracie55]

At the very end of this article Reader says that the 3 children left in the homes could have died, especially Kylie, if not found soon enough.

Pike County sheriff: Rhoden children still in danger

Thank you for finding it! I hate it when I see something then want it back and cannot find it!
I don't think Reader believed they moved the babies. Maybe the pix of R in the hospital were from him being checked for shrapnel. I hope his and Ks hearing is ol.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you for finding it! I hate it when I see something then want it back and cannot find it!
I don't think Reader believed they moved the babies. Maybe the pix of R in the hospital were from him being checked for shrapnel. I hope his and Ks hearing is ol.

Suppressors/silencers would help although not eliminate all sound, so the 2 babies' hearing probably wasn't damaged.

Didn't consider shrapnel hitting the babies, but bullets can go right through a person. And no way were those babies moved, it could have woken the victims up and that didn't fit in with their agenda. Obviously they didn't care that the babies were next to their parents when they burst into their bedrooms.

They left those babies at risk in bloody beds, didn't care enough to put them in cribs. All they cared about was killing, moving Chris/Gary, and tampering with the crime scenes.

And yes all 3 kids were checked out and I'll bet, if not shrapnel, there was gunshot residue on both those babies. Maybe that is something important.

The defense will fight to keep the photos of Rudger covered in blood away from the Jury. For obvious reasons. Maybe pictures of Kylie will be turned over. Hope we find out many answers to many questions.

.....My 2 Cents.....

 

[Gracie55]

Suppressors/silencers would help although not eliminate all sound, so the 2 babies' hearing probably wasn't damaged.

Didn't consider shrapnel hitting the babies, but bullets can go right through a person. And no way were those babies moved, it could have woken the victims up and that didn't fit in with their agenda. Obviously they didn't care that the babies were next to their parents when they burst into their bedrooms.

They left those babies at risk in bloody beds, didn't care enough to put them in cribs. All they cared about was killing, moving Chris/Gary, and tampering with the crime scenes.

And yes all 3 kids were checked out and I'll bet, if not shrapnel, there was gunshot residue on both those babies. Maybe that is something important.

The defense will fight to keep the photos of Rudger covered in blood away from the Jury. For obvious reasons. Maybe pictures of Kylie will be turned over. Hope we find out many answers to many questions.

.....My 2 Cents.....

Given the number of head shots on FR and HG, R might likely have been hit with bits of bone too. I wonder did the bullets lodge in the skull? It's horrible to think but this crime is awful. I wonder will ones as young as R and K have residual memories? B surely will.
Could more medical reports show up in discovery? Could there be injuries the public never heard about, or would this have been released by the press?
I hope the picture are not shown at least in public. I don't want the images in my head.

 

[FonescaFan]

Pike County murders: 5 things to know about latest developments

Speaking of media spinning, back in June 2017 Fredricka W said “Jake had nothing to do with it.” I wonder if that was part of a pre-planned strategy if LE was getting close? Was she trying to influence the public or LE? And if so, why did only name Jake? She could have said ‘my family had nothing to do with it’, etc. Did she want to protect him over other 3 for some reason? Or did she inadvertently reveal that he was the key factor in the crimes? I’m probably over-thinking this, but I believe her statement is important. MOO.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Pike County murders: 5 things to know about latest developments

Speaking of media spinning, back in June 2017 Fredricka W said “Jake had nothing to do with it.” I wonder if that was part of a pre-planned strategy if LE was getting close? Was she trying to influence the public or LE? And if so, why did only name Jake? She could have said ‘my family had nothing to do with it’, etc. Did she want to protect him over other 3 for some reason? Or did she inadvertently reveal that he was the key factor in the crimes? I’m probably over-thinking this, but I believe her statement is important. MOO.

I can only speculate here. It could mean that she only knew that JW had a relationship with one of the victim and she never imagined than more than one family member were targeted by the investigation.

It could very well be that she knew absolutely nothing else then.

I think that conclusions are made quickly about FW. She does have her personality and values. She passed them on to her children. Maybe that played in their behaviour. She also defended them and possibly lied about the BPV when questions were asked.

But then, isnt what you expect from a grand-mother? Mine would act in the same way

 

[Cool Cats]

Given the number of head shots on FR and HG, R might likely have been hit with bits of bone too. I wonder did the bullets lodge in the skull? It's horrible to think but this crime is awful. I wonder will ones as young as R and K have residual memories? B surely will.
Could more medical reports show up in discovery? Could there be injuries the public never heard about, or would this have been released by the press?
I hope the picture are not shown at least in public. I don't want the images in my head.

No I don't think all the details of the victim's injuries have been disclosed by the press because the journalists were only allowed to view the unredacted PRELIMINARY autopsies.

It was reported that the type of bullets was not included in the preliminary report, and no journalist described where all 9 shots were on Chris's body.

Only 3 of the 9 shots were described for Chris: 1 in right forearm, 1 in torso, and 1 in cheek.


Sadly, Brently has been emotionally affected by what happened. He has seen a therapist and has had bouts of fear. He talks about seeing a lot of blood and his dad turning into a zombie, he had picked up his dad's hand and it just dropped.

'I picked up daddy's hand, and it just fell,' said 3-year-old after he found murdered father

Preliminary autopsy only....
Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

Information about the kind of bullets found was not included in preliminary autopsy report....
Rhoden family autopsy reports show 8 killings were methodical and vicious

SORRY I NEED TO EDIT MY POST
I found an article saying Chris was shot 9 times in head, chest, and stomach. So we have SPECIFICALLY----- cheek, head, forearm, chest and stomach----5 shots described for Chris NOT ONLY THREE as I stated above.
Newly-released documents shed light on Rhoden family murders

 

[Jonas_Klein]

I can't wait to learn about the evidence. So far I haven't heard about hard evidence.

Unless blood or unique bullet marks are found on a silencer, it's not proven the silencer was used in the crime. Many people make them for leasure even if they are illegal.

They own BPV and FW lied about it. Does it prove anything?

Let's imagine a weapon is found in a well, like in that j.barr report of the harper road case. If found more than 1 year after they moved out, how to prove no one else plant it there? There are plenty of crazy people circling around this case.

I trust the prosecution have all the evidence to convict them. I just haven't heard it yet. It's still early. I am patient

 

[Gracie55]

No I don't think all the details of the victim's injuries have been disclosed by the press because the journalists were only allowed to view the unredacted PRELIMINARY autopsies.

It was reported that the type of bullets was not included in the preliminary report, and no journalist described where all 9 shots were on Chris's body.

Only 3 of the 9 shots were described for Chris: 1 in right forearm, 1 in torso, and 1 in cheek.


Sadly, Brently has been emotionally affected by what happened. He has seen a therapist and has had bouts of fear. He talks about seeing a lot of blood and his dad turning into a zombie, he had picked up his dad's hand and it just dropped.

'I picked up daddy's hand, and it just fell,' said 3-year-old after he found murdered father

Preliminary autopsy only....
Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

Information about the kind of bullets found was not included in preliminary autopsy report....
Rhoden family autopsy reports show 8 killings were methodical and vicious

SORRY I NEED TO EDIT MY POST
I found an article saying Chris was shot 9 times in head, chest, and stomach. So we have SPECIFICALLY----- cheek, head, forearm, chest and stomach----5 shots described for Chris NOT ONLY THREE as I stated above.
Newly-released documents shed light on Rhoden family murders

Actually I'm wondering, would it be mentioned if the babies had any sort of injuries, but I think it would have come out.

 

[Gracie55]

I can only speculate here. It could mean that she only knew that JW had a relationship with one of the victim and she never imagined than more than one family member were targeted by the investigation.

It could very well be that she knew absolutely nothing else then.

I think that conclusions are made quickly about FW. She does have her personality and values. She passed them on to her children. Maybe that played in their behaviour. She also defended them and possibly lied about the BPV when questions were asked.

But then, isnt what you expect from a grand-mother? Mine would act in the same way

I can see how she might not have known about the bpv. My son left his hunting bag at my house after his last deer hunting visit, anticipating another visit he didn't make. I wouldn't dream of going through it. His stuff.

 

[Cool Cats]

Actually I'm wondering, would it be mentioned if the babies had any sort of injuries, but I think it would have come out.

If the babies had any types of injuries it would be documented in confidential hospital records. Medical records are fiercely guarded and it would take an order from a judge for the records to be handed over to the prosecution. And I believe MG, the legal guardian, would have to be on board with it.....My 2 Cents.....

It's illegal for Hospitals to release anyone's medical files AND lab results without official authorization, in the case of police they need a search warrant.

....COP WITHOUT WARRANT ARRESTS NURSE WHO REFUSES TO GIVE OUT PATIENT'S LAB RESULTS......
Videos show nurse who refused to give patients' blood to police get arrested

IT ENDS BADLY FOR THE COP......
https://nypost.com/2017/10/10/cop-who-forcibly-arrested-nurse-for-refusing-to-draw-blood-is-fired/

 

[Gracie55]

If the babies had any types of injuries it would be documented in confidential hospital records. Medical records are fiercely guarded and it would take an order from a judge for the records to be handed over to the prosecution. And I believe MG, the legal guardian, would have to be on board with it.....My 2 Cents.....

It's illegal for Hospitals to release anyone's medical files without official authorization, in the case of police they need a search warrant.

But wouldn't the hospital have to report an injury resulting from violence to the police? Prosecutors would know. But could it be kept from public eye until trial and that's what the pictures are about?

 

[Myland]

I can't wait to learn about the evidence. So far I haven't heard about hard evidence.

Unless blood or unique bullet marks are found on a silencer, it's not proven the silencer was used in the crime. Many people make them for leasure even if they are illegal.

They own BPV and FW lied about it. Does it prove anything?

Let's imagine a weapon is found in a well, like in that j.barr report of the harper road case. If found more than 1 year after they moved out, how to prove no one else plant it there? There are plenty of crazy people circling around this case.

I trust the prosecution have all the evidence to convict them. I just haven't heard it yet. It's still early. I am patient

I have to agree. After I read some info yesterday I thought it doesn’t look good, but after I thought about it, it still doesn’t link the w to that horrible night. Jmo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I can only speculate here. It could mean that she only knew that JW had a relationship with one of the victim and she never imagined than more than one family member were targeted by the investigation.

It could very well be that she knew absolutely nothing else then.

I think that conclusions are made quickly about FW. She does have her personality and values. She passed them on to her children. Maybe that played in their behaviour. She also defended them and possibly lied about the BPV when questions were asked.

But then, isnt what you expect from a grand-mother? Mine would act in the same way

Let's don't polish up her halo just yet. I think she knew from the get go and helped plan it. LE just doesn't have enough proof to charge her yet. But I think a lot more is going to come out about Fred's part in it all as soon as one of the 4 roll for a plea deal.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I have to agree. After I read some info yesterday I thought it doesn’t look good, but after I thought about it, it still doesn’t link the w to that horrible night. Jmo

I still have a feeling there's DNA evidence linking them to the crime scene. LE had taken many DNA swabs from people. The Manleys even said they volunteered for it. As I've said before, AG DeWine (now governor) wouldn't have staked his own professional reputation on these arrests without having solid evidence.

 

[Deleted member 237253]

I still have a feeling there's DNA evidence linking them to the crime scene. LE had taken many DNA swabs from people. The Manleys even said they volunteered for it. As I've said before, AG DeWine (now governor) wouldn't have staked his own professional reputation on these arrests without having solid evidence.

I believe it was mentioned most died by execution at close proximity. Surely blood splatter from the victims would have stained those bulletproof vests. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

But wouldn't the hospital have to report an injury resulting from violence to the police? Prosecutors would know. But could it be kept from public eye until trial and that's what the pictures are about?

When the police needed to obtain Rudger's medical records and photos they had to follow certain legal procedures before submitting this evidence to the prosecution.

We don't know how the prosecution is going to use Rudger's photos at trial but for now the gag order will keep this evidence out of the public eye.

The photos could go anywhere from a healthy looking baby covered in blood, all the way up to an injured looking baby in distress, resulting in more criminal charges.

I try not to underestimate the surprise factor in a trial of this magnitude.

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

Anxiously waiting for 11:00 EST tomorrow