PA PA - Lower Turkeyfoot, WhtMale 25-50, 170UMPA, expensive clothing, gold box chain w/crucifix, Nov'95

[CCJD]

Two more who were submitted to LE (no rule-out info):

Josef Unterhuber - submitted 8/26/07
The Doe Network: Case File 408DMITA

Sergio Ayala - submitted 5/30/08
The Doe Network: Sergio Bravo Ayala - 1213DMID

 

[MrWilliams]

Two more who were submitted to LE (no rule-out info):

Josef Unterhuber - submitted 8/26/07
The Doe Network: Case File 408DMITA

Sergio Ayala - submitted 5/30/08
The Doe Network: Sergio Bravo Ayala - 1213DMID

I would be surprised if it's ether of them tbh. Ayala was all the way across the country literally over 1,000 miles from Turkeyfoot.

While Unterhuber time and location don't make sense (did he even go missing in the US?)

 

[MrWilliams]

I would imagine that they do but not that I'm privy to. All I have is what I'm digging out of old emails and notes from phone calls that I jotted down on files (yes, I keep paper files on all PA uids). The number of possible matches that I'm aware of is woefully small. Consentino and Aiello were both suggested in the past but I don't know if they were submitted. They weren't by me.

I haven't communicated with PSP about this case in a long time - I've had no reason to. In the time that it was particularly active, there were probably 3 or 4 troopers assigned to the case in succession (they'd retire, transfer to another station, etc). And today, I don't know who has the case. No trooper's name is listed on the NamUs casefile, just the general phone number. It also bugs the heck out of me that there are no images in NamUs - the recons, the clothing, the crucifix ... Methinks the Turkeyfoot gent's case is collecting dust.

It sounds like the PSP was pretty sloppy in retaining evidence for this UID.

I know they got alot of flack for the same thing when investigating that girl who was found in the suitcase in Chester County around the same time.

On that note, I was wondering if the FBI was ever involved in the Turkeyfoot case given the circumstances?

 

[madamx]

I would imagine that they do but not that I'm privy to. All I have is what I'm digging out of old emails and notes from phone calls that I jotted down on files (yes, I keep paper files on all PA uids). The number of possible matches that I'm aware of is woefully small. Consentino and Aiello were both suggested in the past but I don't know if they were submitted. They weren't by me.

I haven't communicated with PSP about this case in a long time - I've had no reason to. In the time that it was particularly active, there were probably 3 or 4 troopers assigned to the case in succession (they'd retire, transfer to another station, etc). And today, I don't know who has the case. No trooper's name is listed on the NamUs casefile, just the general phone number. It also bugs the heck out of me that there are no images in NamUs - the recons, the clothing, the crucifix ... Methinks the Turkeyfoot gent's case is collecting dust.

Wow CCJD amazing all the work you have done on this guy. I had no idea. So sad with all that work and he still remains unidentfied! Frustrating!
I saw Aiello also but thought he was too young and did not have that receding hair the UID has. But I also think Aiello is the guy found in the rug in Queens. NY - NY - Steven Aiello, 23, New York City, 11 Sept 1995

 

[CCJD]

I would be surprised if it's ether of them tbh. Ayala was all the way across the country literally over 1,000 miles from Turkeyfoot.

While Unterhuber time and location don't make sense (did he even go missing in the US?)

I too don't think either of them are the UID. Not my possible matches - I was just the one who sent them in.

 

[CCJD]

It sounds like the PSP was pretty sloppy in retaining evidence for this UID.

I know they got alot of flack for the same thing when investigating that girl who was found in the suitcase in Chester County around the same time.

On that note, I was wondering if the FBI was ever involved in the Turkeyfoot case given the circumstances?

I respectfully disagree. I don't think they were sloppy. As I recall, they actually took the skull to a dentists convention (in Pgh? I'd have to look that up to make sure). They hoped that one of the dentists would recognize their work and/or the Vitallium partial. It was pretty unique, made so that the side clips were covered up so they wouldn't be visible when he smiled. Also, I was peripherally involved in having the later recons done. They actually sent the skull to Wes Neville. I remember being scared t0 death that FedEx, UPS, USPS or whoever would lose it in transit. Of course, this is years ago and PSP really did want to see him ID'd. I do think they just have a lot more info than what has been released to the public.

 

[MrWilliams]

It sounds like the PSP was pretty sloppy in retaining evidence for this UID.

I know they got alot of flack for the same thing when investigating that girl who was found in the suitcase in Chester County around the same time.

On that note, I was wondering if the FBI was ever involved in the Turkeyfoot case given the circumstances?

Also I was thinking,

The UID flyer stated that the dental plate that the Turkeyfoot JD had was less than a year old. Couldn't law enforcement trace who manufactured it/which dental office used it for a procedure and go from there?

Seems that would be one way to identify him?

 

[MrWilliams]

I respectfully disagree. I don't think they were sloppy. As I recall, they actually took the skull to a dentists convention (in Pgh? I'd have to look that up to make sure). They hoped that one of the dentists would recognize their work and/or the Vitallium partial. It was pretty unique, made so that the side clips were covered up so they wouldn't be visible when he smiled. Also, I was peripherally involved in having the later recons done. They actually sent the skull to Wes Neville. I remember being scared t0 death that FedEx, UPS, USPS or whoever would lose it in transit. Of course, this is years ago and PSP really did want to see him ID'd. I do think they just have a lot more info than what has been released to the public.

My apologies I misspoke,

It's still interesting after all that they can't identify him.

It's still weird though they don't have pictures of the clothing he wore though. Perhaps someone would recognize him by the outfit combination?

 

[CCJD]

I could swear there was convention but I'm not finding the news clip. What I have is this:
28 Mar 1999, Page 35 - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette at Newspapers.com

 

[MrWilliams]

I could swear there was convention but I'm not finding the news clip. What I have is this:
28 Mar 1999, Page 35 - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette at Newspapers.com

Crazy and creepy at the same time!

This UID really is a ghost.

 

[MrWilliams]

I've been reading about the Philly mob-apparently they had a lot of violence going on in the early to mid-1990's.

I wonder if our UID could have been a part of that?
Back At War: Philly Mob Conflict Recap (1992-1996) - The Gangster Report

 

[summergirl1]

Has there ever been an attempt to get DNA on this guy? That would likely be the only way to solve this whether it is through genetic genealogy or there is a match somewhere with his DNA. I wonder about the cross he wore? Maybe it was just jewelry..but maybe he was Italian? Catholic?

 

[CCJD]

Has there ever been an attempt to get DNA on this guy? That would likely be the only way to solve this whether it is through genetic genealogy or there is a match somewhere with his DNA. I wonder about the cross he wore? Maybe it was just jewelry..but maybe he was Italian? Catholic?

I don't know if they actually got DNA for JD but a former investigator on the case let me know via email in 2005 that they could get it. This was prior to the Wes Neville recons being done so I'm thinking they could/would use the skull/teeth to retrieve a sample.

Unfortunately, this is one of those cases that have changed investigators a lot over the years and while "fresh eyes" are sometimes a blessing, especially with the cold cases, I do wonder what it does to the continuity of the investigation.

Also, the cross JD was wearing was a crucifix - so he was Catholic.

 

[Coppertop15]

To me he sounds very PA/NJ Italian. I don't know how to qualify that statement, but having lived the first 20 years of my life in SE PA, he sounds like someone I'd meet around Philly.

 

[madamx]

Bumping for the Turkeyfoot guy

 

[MrWilliams]

To me he sounds very PA/NJ Italian. I don't know how to qualify that statement, but having lived the first 20 years of my life in SE PA, he sounds like someone I'd meet around Philly.

Agreed!

I'm convinced that our John Doe had something to do with either two scenarios.

1) He was a part of the Philly Mob War and law enforcement has yet to connect the dots to him and a missing actor from that underworld conflict.

2) He fits into the Ronnie Gibbon's category in the sense that he was someone visiting the states from the Old Country on "business" who went afoul of his "hosts?" Interesting that LE originally thought that the Turkeyfoot Doe was Ronnie Gibbons at one point.

 

[MrWilliams]

Agreed!

I'm convinced that our John Doe had something to do with either two scenarios.

1) He was a part of the Philly Mob War and law enforcement has yet to connect the dots to him and a missing actor from that underworld conflict.

2) He fits into the Ronnie Gibbon's category in the sense that he was someone visiting the states from the Old Country on "business" who went afoul of his "hosts?" Interesting that LE originally thought that the Turkeyfoot Doe was Ronnie Gibbons at one point.

Someone suggested this guy to me a while ago.

Michael Avicolli missing out of Philadelphia since the spring of 1996.

Weight, height, age, and even face bears a little resemblance. Even had organized crimes times prior to his disappearance.

However, obviously, the timeframe doesn't make sense given that 170UMPA was discovered prior to Avicolli's disappearance. Although he could be another unidentified person in the PA-NJ-NY area.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Some of you put a lot of work into this case years ago. Bumping up and hoping for a current list of Rule-outs. @carbuff

This UID's profile on NamUs:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP16600

Male, White / Caucasian
Date Body Found:
November 3, 1995
Location Found:
Somerset County, Pennsylvania

ME/C Case Number:
A6-911712

Estimated Age Group: Adult - Pre 50
Estimated Age Range (Years): 25-40
Estimated Year of Death: 1994
Estimated PMI: Months
Height: 5' 10"(70 inches) , Estimated
Weight: 160 lbs, Estimated
Hair Color: Black

Clothing:
Wearing genuine country road pants, tan or khaki in color, size 32 Liz Claiborne button down short sleeve shirt, size M, light color-Italian calf skin brown belt, jockey stripped briefs.

Jewelry: Gold box chain with crucifex

 

[carbuff]

No exclusions. Most likely it's just not visible to the public.

 

[Blacksheep13]

If Namus pinned location is correct it’s very close to Indian Lake which is a pretty affluent area for lakefront homes. Given the victim’s clothing he may have been a guest of one of the residents?

Coincidentally the location pinned is close to the location of flight 93 site as well (which obviously happened much later, but sometimes interesting that certain areas seem to attract negative events imho)