CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

[Trudie]

First, a pedantic detail: As far as we know, KB didn't buy the same townhome she had been renting. It was in the same complex, but a different unit. At least that's what has been reported. IMO

Second, in my opinion as a resident in a rural/horsey area, KB had zero expection PF would ever live with her in that townhome for more than a few transitional months at the most. His life was about cattle, horses, and dog breeding and training. He would only have lived for any length of time on acreage where there was room for those activities and all the attendant vehicles and equipment.

Now, whether she bought her place as an interim, thinking she'd join him in the country at some point (after he inherited SF's land or moved to his own), or whether her buying the place was an indication she knew they would never be living together, we just don't know.

But IMO she never expected he would settle in to her home in WP.

Ita. The only way I see him living in small, connected quarters is in jail. Where he obviously belongs according to the DA.
Living off the ranch would have been a hardship for him.
Cattle get put, injured, need medical attention, as do horses/dogs.
Idk if we will ever know the status of their relationship. Seems they both told a dif’ story.
I can honestly say if I had a child out of wedlock, my mom would have hounded me daily “when you getting married”, just because that’s how she was. I would have said what I needed to say to shut her up & change the subject. Moo

 

[Aydrianna523]

I agree... I don’t think he knew how involved CB was in her daughter’s life. I wonder if he knew that the house was put under LLC - which I think shows the relationship with her parents.
KB doesn’t seem to have shared a lot of information about parents with PF and about PF to her parents - possibly just her age and desire to be more independent? It appears she was even vague with friends - but maybe parents and friends are withholding information as instructed by LE?
The 10 days waiting to file missing report has always bugged me - I would be freaking out if I didn’t talk to my 38 year old daughter in 2 days maximum - but I know other “very caring” parents that would think nothing of not hearing from their child for a week or two -after they moved a thousand miles away. Not criticizing at all - just different.
My point is ... PF who lived with his mother may have MISTAKENLY thought that the distance and the lack of daily communication with parents meant that he could take her life and parents would simply accept her absence. He’s finding out how VERY badly he misjudged the love these parents had for their daughter ... isn’t he!

Then there's others who have adult daughters (or sons) that only call when something is wrong. You almost hate to get a call because 'no news is good news'.
I'm not sure if all parents really get the full lowdown on their daughter's boyfriends or husband. I'm guessing it varies.

 

[SandyQLS]

Don’t forget his 35 (IIRC) head of cattle.

I don't know where you got that number. PF runs cattle on BLM land, not at the 35-acre ranchette. PF is actually quite busy with his various ag businesses.

 

[vaporlass]

Good morning Bracing for more cold & snow today here in the Springs and WP.. traffic already messy from here to Denver. No new KB news. Just a repeat interview of her friend this morning on the local news. Have a happy Monday everyone, and a great new week ahead!

I don't think KK had anything to do with KB's murder either, is why she has not been arrested, and never will be. She is providing LE what they need to bring PF to justice. The phone could have been tossed into her car, of course she turned it on when she found it, and the texts were sent. Which means there still may be people in play who did help him locally, or knew his intentions. More arrests coming. JMO

Thank you for update Noetic Soul!
SkyCountry ... it’s hard for me to think KK is any less a monster than PF when she knew for months that he was trying to have her killed and she did nothing except discuss with her BFF - which I think she only did in case PF turned on her.
I’ve tried giving her the benefit of doubt but I can’t imagine ANY scenario or ANY reason, I would continue to have a relationship with someone who was constantly talking about murdering the mother of his child.
Who does this???
I hope you are right that more arrests are coming ... I realize they may need her testimony but I’m going to be mad if she walks with no sentence at all.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Ita. The only way I see him living in small, connected quarters is in jail. Where he obviously belongs according to the DA.
Living off the ranch would have been a hardship for him.
Cattle get put, injured, need medical attention, as do horses/dogs.
Idk if we will ever know the status of their relationship. Seems they both told a dif’ story.
I can honestly say if I had a child out of wedlock, my mom would have hounded me daily “when you getting married”, just because that’s how she was. I would have said what I needed to say to shut her up & change the subject. Moo

Yeah, that entered my mind too. Did PFs relatives want him to marry? The house looks kinda big. And some parents do take in adult children and spouses. I did it once.
And especially if he's helping to run the ranch. Mystery there.

 

[mtnlites]

It takes a whole lot of money to live these days. A ranch has got to have huge bills. Even if mom footed all the ranch bills, he might have some expenses of his own.
He did say that since cattle prices were down, he couldn't afford to marry. But, then again, he didn't plan to marry Kelsey...

Land and dogs (especially those being bred) and cattle and horses take a ton of money for upkeep. We spend around $150 per month, on average, for just one of our horses. By the time you buy feed, fresh straw, health maintenance. Winter brings its own expenses because the grazing changes, too.

 

[mtnlites]

I don't know where you got that number. PF runs cattle on BLM land, not at the 35-acre ranchette. PF is actually quite busy with his various ag businesses.

So is this article wrong?

Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder

Patrick Frazee runs a cattle ranch on his 35-acre property.

 

[vaporlass]

I hope the prosecution uses women to grill him on the stand, I think they will get a reaction out of him. Same with the media, use women reporters, they may get a response from him. Men who verbally abuse women, think all women are beneath them. I also think he resents his mom, he may blame her for his lack of a relationship with his father. JMO

I hope prosecution thinks like you do! And I’d love to watch it, but if he’s like most murderers - he won’t testify...

 

[skycountry]

I agree. However, idk that he lives on the same house as his mom. I would think he has separate quarters, on the same land. Jmo

Teller County allows ONE well on land up to 35 acres, there is no other house on this property, as it would have to share the one well that is there.
Private Wells for Home Use - 6.700 - Extension

 

[ajaylee]

I dont think he planned to get rid of/hide her car at all in the short term. I truly believe he thought that LE was nearly non-existent in his neck of the woods. That he was just going to shove this under the rug and no one would be the wiser...except for when CB started to ring more often at which time he’d figure that all out later.

BBM

I can understand why he might have thought this.

Another Colorado woman, Terry Ackerman, disappeared from Lochbuie, Colorado in August and has not been heard from since. Lochbuie is about 2 hours from Woodland Park. There's a thread here on WB about her. She left her purse, keys and car behind. Married woman, grandmother, wasn't living a 'risky' lifestyle. I've been told the dogs traced her scent from the house to the curb, but nothing since.

PF might very well have thought that his small town police department would never have the resources or skills to find KB. He may also have (falsely) assumed that LE would find the story of a runaway more believable if the girl in question was not a 'local' girl.

 

[skycountry]

So is this article wrong?

Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder

I think it is mis-leading, it would not be cost effective to run more than a few cows on his 35 acre "ranchette" year round. They would have to be fed daily, and that would take away from any profit. He has to have other land available to him for grazing, either BLM or a rancher. BLM land leases are cheap, sometimes only a few dollars a year per animal. jmo

 

[jewelsmac]

That’s true, although there’s always text messages, as long as PF can read and write.

IIRC, they didn’t meet at a square dance, rather it was a cattle roping competition.

He threw his rope and missed, inadvertently capturing her, and ultimately her heart.

I hope that incredible but true, fact that I just made up, makes it into the Lifetime Movie about this case.

oh mother of god, lifetime movie... just, no

 

[ajaylee]

First, a pedantic detail: As far as we know, KB didn't buy the same townhome she had been renting. It was in the same complex, but a different unit. At least that's what has been reported. IMO

Second, in my opinion as a resident in a rural/horsey area, KB had zero expection PF would ever live with her in that townhome for more than a few transitional months at the most. His life was about cattle, horses, and dog breeding and training. He would only have lived for any length of time on acreage where there was room for those activities and all the attendant vehicles and equipment.

Now, whether she bought her place as an interim, thinking she'd join him in the country at some point (after he inherited SF's land or moved to his own), or whether her buying the place was an indication she knew they would never be living together, we just don't know.

But IMO she never expected he would settle in to her home in WP.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, except for two things. I think KB's neighbor said that PF was at KB's all the time. I don't have the exact reference, but it sounded like he was semi-living there.

Second, IIRC, the condo was 15 miles from the ranchette. That's not the worst commute in the world - not if you love the mother of your child and the ranchette is just your work place.

He wouldn't have liked it - and financially, he probably saw her as a potential score. Her real and steady income + living with his mom - that might have looked pretty good to him.

Something that hasn't been mentioned regarding PF's income: was he living rent-free with mom or does he have to pay his share of mortgage/property taxes/utilities/upkeep?

 

[ajaylee]

I think it is mis-leading, it would not be cost effective to run more than a few cows on his 35 acre "ranchette" year round. They would have to be fed daily, and that would take away from any profit. He has to have other land available to him for grazing, either BLM or a rancher. BLM land leases are cheap, sometimes only a few dollars a year per animal. jmo

PF's Mom has two other properties in the area, although I don't know if they are suitable for grazing.

 

[skycountry]

Thank you for update Noetic Soul!
SkyCountry ... it’s hard for me to think KK is any less a monster than PF when she knew for months that he was trying to have her killed and she did nothing except discuss with her BFF - which I think she only did in case PF turned on her.
I’ve tried giving her the benefit of doubt but I can’t imagine ANY scenario or ANY reason, I would continue to have a relationship with someone who was constantly talking about murdering the mother of his child.
Who does this???
I hope you are right that more arrests are coming ... I realize they may need her testimony but I’m going to be mad if she walks with no sentence at all.

I think if KK was really involved LE would have arrested her. We don't have much to go on right now, all we can do is speculate atm. JMO

 

[Hatfield]

I think sometimes we give these dirtbags too much credit. Lots of them kill and then have their lunch, easy peasy. No conscience. We shouldn't project our own horror at murder onto sociopaths.

JMO
Exactly. Having a lack of empathy is very hard to understand for us folks that have feelings for others. Some of us cannot even watch certain fake movie scenes of murder without turning away in horror.

PF showed no care towards KB and especially not towards her Mom and family and friends.

PF selfishly was just caring about himself with no thought about how killing KB would affect others.

The lack of empathy helps allow killers to do such awful things and its important to realize there are people in this world that are more than capable to do horrendous things without blinking an eye.

The other thing is sometimes hatred and jealously override what little empathy someone has. KK may have had some empathy since she shared with her BFF some concerns when she was solicited. But other emotions like jealously or hatred could have overridden anything else which could have allowed her to assist PF by taking the phone and maybe did other things we are not yet aware of.

 

[Dave F.]

So is this article wrong?

Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder

At the start of the KOAA drone video of the searched ranch, which they published on December 21, it shows the whole 35 acres. Throughout the video, I see several horses, but no cows.
I'll make the call. CBS Channel 11 News is wrong.
Drone video shows area where investigators searched Frazee property

 

[skycountry]

JMO
Exactly. Having a lack of empathy is very hard to understand for us folks that have feelings for others. Some of us cannot even watch certain fake movie scenes of murder without turning away in horror.

PF showed no care towards KB and especially not towards her Mom and family and friends.

PF selfishly was just caring about himself with no thought about how killing KB would affect others.

The lack of empathy helps allow killers to do such awful things and its important to realize there are people in this world that are more than capable to do horrendous things without blinking an eye.

The other thing is sometimes hatred and jealously override what little empathy someone has. KK may have had some empathy since she shared with her BFF some concerns when she was solicited. But other emotions like jealously or hatred could have overridden anything else which could have allowed her to assist PF by taking the phone and maybe did other things we are not yet aware of.

Maybe it runs in PF's family, as his immediate family were vindictive in asking for custody of baby K right away. No empathy for KB's mom, who had just learned that KB was gone, and PF was jailed for her murder. Surely they could have asked for visitation only, and not full custody, anyone with an ounce of compassion would have understood that baby K was going to be a blessing to the Berreth family at this time. jmo

 

[SandyQLS]

So is this article wrong?

Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder

I would say the reporter is an urban person with little understanding of the AG business. PF has some cows at the 35-acres. They can be seen in the pipe pens and in his dog videos. But you don't "run" cattle on that home acreage which is also 2/3 forested. PF "runs" his cattle business from the 35-acres, but the herd of cattle is "running" on BLM land elsewhere.

Is this somehow complicated? Beef cattle are out "running" all over the western states. No one feeds them daily or checks on them.

IMO it is also an urban-suburban mentality that finds it strange that adult children in any AG family continue to live at home. That's the norm, multi-generational family on one farm or ranch. They build more housing as needed.

 

[Hatfield]

At the start of the KOAA drone video of the searched ranch, which they published on December 21, it shows the whole 35 acres. Throughout the video, I see several horses, but no cows.
I'll make the call. CBS Channel 11 News is wrong.
Drone video shows area where investigators searched Frazee property

I tend to agree that the news probably meant to say he runs his business from his ranchette but not necessarily had them grazing there. The address of the business is probably listed where he lived and he manages it from there but grazing the cattle is probably done on leased land somewhere else. Unless he only had 15 cows, I dont think 35 acres is enough to have too many to make it profitable.

From this article it says the average
rule-of-thumb is that it takes 1.5 to 2 acres to feed a cow calf pair for 12 months

"It looks like our rule-of-thumb
held up pretty good, 11 cows
on 20 acres, is 1.8 acres per
cow. We have enough forage to feed
our cows for the whole year
. These figures give you a
good estimate and are a
great place to start"


https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb1097070.pdf