CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #34 *ARREST*

[Love Never Fails]

It’s hard enough to find a body in a landfill, let alone find a murder weapon or some other object.

It takes time, manpower, and money in order to conduct a search of that magnitude, and a body would likely be the only justification for such a search.

I don’t see why it has to be either/or. LE may have tips that both her body and some type of evidence (purse, murder weapon, etc.) was dumped in the landfill. I hope the weather clears and they can search. This has to be excruciating for her family.

 

[PommyMommy]

The National Cattledog Association, in whichPF competes as a breeder, stopped listing the breeder names on their website after the 2014 National competition.
NCA | NATIONAL CATTLEDOG ASSOCIATION
and RanchWorld.com, where PF occasionally advertized or was mentioned in advertisements, doesn't archive their ad content. Trudee just happened to catch one that was sold, before it was pulled. That dog was a two year old in April 2018, which would likely place it's birthdate in early 2016. In the furthest stretch, late 2015.
Horses for Sale | Ranch Classifieds | Ranch Horses for Sale
It seems to me that cattle dog breeding and training is pretty much a word of mouth business, and if a trainer has one spectacular video of full length on SM to show his product, how often does it need to be updated or replaced?
2014 wasn't a long time ago. I believe that was the same year Ford announced the 2019 return of it's iconic Ranger pickup that it started taking orders for in December. A little bit of good rep seems to replace a lot of expensive advertising, if your principal buyers are westerners. IMO

Thanks, Dave. I'll stick with unconfirmed then. MOO

I think back around thread 9 or 10 there was more current info, I’ll look later.
If P has the sire, he wouldn’t be selling the dogs, the female’s owner would. Iirc, there’s some info referring P as a trainer. I may have been on a herd dog forum.
Jmo

I checked thread 9 - lots and lots of discussion about the 2014 videos and opinions on his training and so forth. Absolutely nothing about current business dealings that I could find. MOO

ETA: Okay, I also looked at thread 10 - only 3 pages of hits there, but still nothing useful, really. I did see something about a dog born in 2010. I think his name was Ajax.

 

[Zeptiously]

I also believe that had her body been recoverable they may have waited to arrest PF. I think they are now looking for some of her things (possibly her purse that was missing?). When they said that they had enough to ensure them that KB was no longer alive, I believe they found plenty of evidence to have come to that determination. Otherwise, why say it that way?

New sleuther here

Not sure the best place to ask this question but isn't there a way to conclude if a body is deceased by a strand of hair? I recall a high profile case in which a hair strand from the child was found as evidence and forensic specialists we're able to test the hair follicle to determine whether or not the victim was alive or deseased. I wonder if that is a potencial way to know for a FACT that the victim is not living (aside from the brain matter or blood possibilty) IMHO

Maybe that test only works for children? Sorry if I'm WAY off base here, just a thought.

Happy to be part of the webslueths community!

 

[PommyMommy]

New sleuther here

Not sure the best place to ask this question but isn't there a way to conclude if a body is deceased by a strand of hair? I recall a high profile case in which a hair strand from the child was found as evidence and forensic specialists we're able to test the hair follicle to determine whether or not the victim was alive or deseased. I wonder if that is a potencial way to know for a FACT that the victim is not living (aside from the brain matter or blood possibilty) IMHO

Maybe that test only works for children? Sorry if I'm WAY off base here, just a thought.

Happy to be part of the webslueths community!

Welcome to Websleuths, Zeptiously!

Yes, there sure is, and you may be thinking about the Caylee Anthony case where a hair found in the trunk of Casey's car was found to have a darkened band at the root portion of the hair, consistent with decomposition. More here: FBI Analyst Says Hair in Casey Anthony's Car Likely Came From Dead Body

 

[jaspermac]

New sleuther here

Not sure the best place to ask this question but isn't there a way to conclude if a body is deceased by a strand of hair? I recall a high profile case in which a hair strand from the child was found as evidence and forensic specialists we're able to test the hair follicle to determine whether or not the victim was alive or deseased. I wonder if that is a potencial way to know for a FACT that the victim is not living (aside from the brain matter or blood possibilty) IMHO

Maybe that test only works for children? Sorry if I'm WAY off base here, just a thought.

Happy to be part of the webslueths community!

Welcome!

They did use it in the Casey Anthony case but it is controversial and often not admitted.
For post mortem banding to develop in the hair follicule it needs to be still attached to the deceased's head. So if a hair is left behind it may not show banding or maybe the body wasn't moved for awhile. It is thought to take 2 days to happen

You can read more here from People vs Koghut

People v Kogut

 

[justpeachy22]

Lori Hacking's Remains Found in Utah Landfill

It took 33 days to find Lori Hacking's body in the landfill in Salt Lake City, and they had a lot more information to go on to find her body.

Quote from article, "Landfill searches are historically unsuccessful" "It is like finding a needle in a haystack".

It seems unlikely to me, given the time factor of over 60 days, that KB will be found.

And...maybe the efforts to find her body may not hold high significance if they already have enough on him to likely convict.

 

[Zeptiously]

Welcome to Websleuths, Zeptiously!

Yes, there sure is, and you may be thinking about the Caylee Anthony case where a hair found in the trunk of Casey's car was found to have a darkened band at the root portion of the hair, consistent with decomposition. More here: FBI Analyst Says Hair in Casey Anthony's Car Likely Came From Dead Body

Yes! This is most def the case I was thinking of, but I was wary of posting about other cases because I'm not sure how much I can post without a resource but you nailed it!
I tried to look up better information on the hair testing. Maybe it only applies to young children because their body and features are not fully developed? Or maybe that's not the case at all.

 

[Zeptiously]

Welcome!

They did use it in the Casey Anthony case but it is controversial and often not admitted.
For post mortem banding to develop in the hair follicule it needs to be still attached to the deceased's head. So if a hair is left behind it may not show banding or maybe the body wasn't moved for awhile. It is thought to take 2 days to happen

You can read more here from People vs Koghut

People v Kogut

Awesome! Thank you for all the information. Good research

 

[Dave F.]

Yes! This is most def the case I was thinking of, but I was wary of posting about other cases because I'm not sure how much I can post without a resource but you nailed it!
I tried to look up better information on the hair testing. Maybe it only applies to young children because their body and features are not fully developed? Or maybe that's not the case at all.

My take on it is that the hair would have to remain attached to the body for a couple of days in order for the process to happen. In other words, PF or his solicitee(s) would have to have taken more than two days to dispose of the body. They searched everything PF touched, and everything KB touched. If they had it, the DA might not be answering questions about a "no body" trial. IMO

 

[BUF]

Yes! This is most def the case I was thinking of, but I was wary of posting about other cases because I'm not sure how much I can post without a resource but you nailed it!
I tried to look up better information on the hair testing. Maybe it only applies to young children because their body and features are not fully developed? Or maybe that's not the case at all.

There was a thread on here all about it if you are interested...What do we know about hair decomp ***REVISITED***

 

[Zeptiously]

You guys are awesome!

 

[girlhasnoname]

"We have never been able to get his papers." - A bit sloppy, that breeder of Sport?

Haa! So not surprised by this also FromGermany. I think his actions, or lack thereof, speak directly to his character. No good, no good, no good. IMO

 

[Trudie]

Haa! So not surprised by this also FromGermany. I think his actions, or lack thereof, speak directly to his character. No good, no good, no good. IMO

As far as registration papers?
The dog was not his. He had the sire (father dog).
99.9% reason for current owner to not have papers is because the dog was NOT neutered, as the purchase agreement required, imo. The papers have NOTHING to do with PF. The owner of the female dog would be responsible for registration ppwk.
Moo

 

[GordianKnot]

I just don't think it is her body they are going to be looking for at the landfill site. It just seems too risky to have dumped the body in that way when there are so many other places or ways he could have disposed of the body in and around where he lived.

I feel like LE are going to be looking for something else at the Landfill, not sure what maybe murder weapon etc.

I could easily be wrong, I just think other ways would be easier and less risky.

j-mac, JMO, if it were anybody else, that may be true, but this is PF.
He absolutely would dump a body in a landfill.

Also, it is an incredibly time intensive and expensive process to conduct a proper landfill search. IMO, the only reason LE would undertake such a costly venture would be to locate KB's body. It would not be worth it for anything else, not even the murder weapon. Again, JMO.

 

[ajaylee]

Something I'm sure LE is looking at but that we haven't heard anything about: his computer activity. It's amazing how many of these clowns leave a search history where you can trace their research and planning.

I don't know how computer-savvy PF is, but I believe he knew enough to meet KB on social media. You don't have to be a genius to use 'search'.

 

[SFDukie]

Welcome!

They did use it in the Casey Anthony case but it is controversial and often not admitted.
For post mortem banding to develop in the hair follicule it needs to be still attached to the deceased's head. So if a hair is left behind it may not show banding or maybe the body wasn't moved for awhile. It is thought to take 2 days to happen

You can read more here from People vs Koghut

People v Kogut

that's interesting. thanks for linking it!

 

[SFDukie]

Something I'm sure LE is looking at but that we haven't heard anything about: his computer activity. It's amazing how many of these clowns leave a search history where you can trace their research and planning.

I don't know how computer-savvy PF is, but I believe he knew enough to meet KB on social media. You don't have to be a genius to use 'search'.

KB's cousin said the two met online. "The cousin, JoDee Garretson, says Berreth met 31-year-old cattle rancher Patrick Frazee online in early 2016" Missing mom moved to Colorado for love of man now accused of her murder, cousin says

 

[Trudie]

Something I'm sure LE is looking at but that we haven't heard anything about: his computer activity. It's amazing how many of these clowns leave a search history where you can trace their research and planning.

I don't know how computer-savvy PF is, but I believe he knew enough to meet KB on social media. You don't have to be a genius to use 'search'.

It’ll be nice interesting for sure. Maybe he only used his phone.
Can’t wait to hear of KKL’s searches.

 

[justpeachy22]

"We have never been able to get his papers." - A bit sloppy, that breeder of Sport?

Wow, I cannot believe they are using PF’s name as marketing material to sell their dog.

 

[Seattle1]

I've still not seen anything since a few YouTube videos from 2014 that tells me PF was in the business of breeding/training/selling cattle dogs at the time he murdered KB. Are you able to link anything that indicates so?
MOO

It's been awhile since this discussed but speculation about selling/training cattle dogs post 2014 may have come from a sm post directed to long haulers where one was seeking transportation for a dog delivery. Then again, the message may have been around 2014....