CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[JMarsh]

Here is one possible explanation for the deletion of the checks. And this next speaks to a creative aspect of how Quickbooks can be used-outside of the norm. Anecdotal, but when I used Quickbooks as an independent contractor, I didn't use it to monitor my bank account or taxes or anything like that, I used it to keep track of a large production budget. And it was very useful in making certain that the client was not exceeding budget in anticipated or estimated expenses. I could then tell the client, you can't spend such and such, or you will exceed your budget. Then we could attempt to increase the budget or nix that expense, before the money was spent.

My sense is that Custom was set up in a similar way to that. And again, won't know until the DA lays out their case on this, but I bet Custom was not monitoring payments, so much as it was monitoring anticipated expenses for each project, and monies owed between Joey and Chase. Again, IF I'm right (and I could be dead wrong), any check written against the Custom account would mess with those numbers. Joey may have been allowing for the Custom account to be used for writing checks, but he didn't want the amounts of those checks to interfere with the estimated (vs actual) expenses that account was set up to monitor.

If that makes any sense...

 

[mrjitty]

Here is one possible explanation for the deletion of the checks. And this next speaks to a creative aspect of how Quickbooks can be used-outside of the norm. Anecdotal, but when I used Quickbooks as an independent contractor, I didn't use it to monitor my bank account or taxes or anything like that, I used it to keep track of a large production budget. And it was very useful in making certain that the client was not exceeding budget in anticipated or estimated expenses. I could then tell the client, you can't spend such and such, or you will exceed your budget. Then we could attempt to increase the budget or nix that expense, before the money was spent.

My sense is that Custom was set up in a similar way to that. And again, won't know until the DA lays out their case on this, but I bet Custom was not monitoring payments, so much as it was monitoring anticipated expenses for each project, and monies owed between Joey and Chase. Again, IF I'm right (and I could be dead wrong), any check written against the Custom account would mess with those numbers. Joey may have been allowing for the Custom account to be used for writing checks, but he didn't want the amounts of those checks to interfere with the estimated (vs actual) expenses that account was set up to monitor.

If that makes any sense...

IIRC no cheques were ever written against the custom account - only Chases fraudulent cheques.

 

[katydid23]

Someone asked me about Quickbooks and I think it is really intrinsic to a discussion about this case to at least know the basics in regard to that software. Some of this everyone may know already, but it seems worth reviewing. Caveat: I could be mistaken about some of what I'm posting here. The DA has not laid out all the details, so we'll see how close I am to being accurate as the trial progresses, but here's what I know, anyway. For what it is worth.

From what I understand, Joey used Quickbooks Intuit (Not Quickbooks Pro). His first "account" "Contacts" was generated in 2004, so it may be that Joey had a 2004 version of Quickbooks Intuit and had not upgraded since then. And it would appear that he only purchased one license. Which means that technically, he was supposed to be the only person accessing the program. (An account is generally tied to a bank account and you can have numerous "accounts" even if you only have one license.)

In 2007 Joey sets up a second "account" for his Quickbooks program "Custom".

According to the preliminary hearing transcript the account titled "Contacts" documented ALL of Joey's finances, everything from his business to his mortgage to his various bank accounts.

The account titled "Custom" was strictly for business conducted between Joey and Chase.

With Quickbooks you can dictate who has access to different information by way of the email and password you give them. The owner of the software can, for example dictate that email: owner@gmail.com with password "access"-has access to all data.

But then a second email and password can be created, and it is possible in Quickbooks to restrict access for that email and password. So, for example, when Joey created the new email and password for "Custom" , for the sake of this example, let's pretend it was: notowner@gmail.com; password "limited access", the person with only that email and password, would only see what Joey wanted them to see. They wouldn't necessarily be able to see any of Joey's personal accounts or bank balances.

I don't know for a fact that Joey set things up this way, but I suspect he did. It seems very possible that if someone were to put in the email and password for the "Custom" they would only have access to data specific to that account, which is why Chase could not use the drop down vendor list from "Contacts". If I'm right about this, that would explain why Chase created new vendor contacts.

I don't want to bore everyone to tears, but it did seem that some of the nuances in the Quickbooks software are not widely known.

Quickbooks is awesome. I've used it in a number of different ways. And for the small business person it allows for some, kind of creative, applications when monitoring expenses, etc.

I had a "custom" account that only had me and our son named on it. It was used for his University tuition and the money we gave him for books.

There is no way, imo, that he could use that custom account to 'add' another name to it and write checks to that new name.

His access was only for that small portion of my QB account. His name and mine.

 

[katydid23]

I think you are correct. Sometimes when drafting checks the user doesn't intend to print those checks on that day, so the "date" is a feature that gets manipulated a lot.

Everything, with the exception of the check deleting seems easily explained. I don't know why Chase deleted the checks. When Joseph was alive, you could speculate it was to keep Joseph from knowing right away about the check, but if that is the reason for the deletion, it makes no sense to continue deleting those checks if the person generating them knows Joseph is no longer around to see what is occurring.

I suspect that there may have been another reason for the deletion.

Joey wasn't around, and he knew it. But he didnt want any one else, who might be investigating Joy's disappearance, to see that checks were written AFTER Joey went missing. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Here is one possible explanation for the deletion of the checks. And this next speaks to a creative aspect of how Quickbooks can be used-outside of the norm. Anecdotal, but when I used Quickbooks as an independent contractor, I didn't use it to monitor my bank account or taxes or anything like that, I used it to keep track of a large production budget. And it was very useful in making certain that the client was not exceeding budget in anticipated or estimated expenses. I could then tell the client, you can't spend such and such, or you will exceed your budget. Then we could attempt to increase the budget or nix that expense, before the money was spent.

My sense is that Custom was set up in a similar way to that. And again, won't know until the DA lays out their case on this, but I bet Custom was not monitoring payments, so much as it was monitoring anticipated expenses for each project, and monies owed between Joey and Chase. Again, IF I'm right (and I could be dead wrong), any check written against the Custom account would mess with those numbers. Joey may have been allowing for the Custom account to be used for writing checks, but he didn't want the amounts of those checks to interfere with the estimated (vs actual) expenses that account was set up to monitor.

If that makes any sense...

If your second paragraph is correct, then I would expect to see Joey deleting all of the checks he actually paid Chase. I bet that there were no other deleted checks to Chase, other than the ones Chase himself created.

 

[JMarsh]

Joey wasn't around, and he knew it. But he didnt want any one else, who might be investigating Joy's disappearance, to see that checks were written AFTER Joey went missing. JMO

That is possible. It will be interesting to find out exactly how these accounts were set up. I'm speculating.

 

[JMarsh]

If your second paragraph is correct, then I would expect to see Joey deleting all of the checks he actually paid Chase. I bet that there were no other deleted checks to Chase, other than the ones Chase himself created.

No. Sorry. I'm not being clear. The way you have to look at this to is that Contacts & Custom were completely separate accounts, almost as if they weren't in the same computer system.

If Joey wrote a check in Contacts that wouldn't alter the numbers in Custom.

Because Quickbooks is looking at those two accounts as separate from each other.

Here is the best example I can give, and I'll use myself as an example. When I owned and used Quickbooks I had two accounts. My personal account monitored my bank balances, expenses and income. But the accounts I set up for my projects as a project coordinator started with the balance of that project.

A project I supervised had 250k budget. In that account I wrote in the account balance as 250k, and as I got estimates for hires etc, I would place those as an expense in the project account, and I could see if our estimated expenses were within budget or in danger of exceeding budget.

Data that I put into my personal account, did not impact numbers in the project accounts, and vice versa--because I kept the accounts separate.

So if Joey wrote a check in Contacts that would NOT impact or alter the amounts reflected in totals or account balance for Custom. Only checks written through the Custom account would do this.

 

[katydid23]

No. Sorry. I'm not being clear. The way you have to look at this to is that Contacts & Custom were completely separate accounts, almost as if they weren't in the same computer system.

If Joey wrote a check in Contacts that wouldn't alter the numbers in Custom.

Because Quickbooks is looking at those two accounts as separate from each other.

Here is the best example I can give, and I'll use myself as an example. When I owned and used Quickbooks I had two accounts. My personal account monitored my bank balances, expenses and income. But the accounts I set up for my projects as a project coordinator started with the balance of that project.

There was on project I supervised that was 250K. In that account I wrote in the account balance as 250k, and as I got estimates for hires etc, I would place those as an expense in the project account, and I could see if our estimated expenses were within budget or in danger of exceeding budget.

Data that I put into my personal account, did not impact numbers in the project accounts, and vice versa--because I kept the accounts separate.

So if Joey wrote a check in Contacts that would impact Custom. Only checks written through the Custom account would do this.

OK, thank you.

So given the above info, IF Joey had told Chase to write himself some checks, why would he tell him to do so from an account that was set up as you describe---just for estimating projected costs etc?

Why wouldn't he tell him to create the checks from the correct account that was set up to pay Chase?

 

[Longtimenoc]

What are your thoughts on the reason for the deleted checks?

 

[Mica]

could you please post link for the portal

Home | Superior Court of California

 

[fridaybaker]

If Chase had accessed the Contacts account, that would be suspicious to me. The fact that he only ever accessed Custom seems in keeping with his version of events around his Quickbooks usage. But we haven't reached this point in the trial, so we'll see.

JMarsh, would Chase even know about the "Contacts" account? If other words, if Joey set it up so that Chase could interface with the "Custom" account, why would Chase even know about the other or why would it be on his radar. I would think that he would go to the Custom account to do anything -write checks, etc.

I've used Quickbooks before and HATED it. The whole thing is incredibly confusing to me. I think if someone gave me the access to one account, I wouldn't even know, or know enough, to go into the other. Can you enlighten?
Thanks.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

When court finally starts again this week, I wonder how many actual hours of testimony they will even have this week.

I already knew any trial held in CA would be unnecessarily and excessively long, but honestly, I didn't ever expect it to have so many dark days of completely wasted time.

I thought, perhaps this one would be far more productive with it being such a serious mass murder case, and one involving the death penalty if convicted.

But that has not been the case. Instead it has been the slowest trial I've ever followed in CA or any other state for that matter.

When the jurors were selected they were first told their services would be needed for approximately three months, but now that timeline has double to a guesstimate of six months. The way this trial is proceeding at a snail's pace even the six months timeline seems unobtainable, and far fetched.

What's going to happen when jurors start advising the judge they cant serve any longer since the timeline given to them when first becoming a juror actually means nothing to the court?

Imo

 

[Longtimenoc]

It's going to be a long trial and lets hope the jurors are prepared for it. I think the prosecution is slowly building a foundation built upon Merritts inconsistencies, cell phone data, computer forensics and crime scene analysis. I imagine the defense portion will be longer

 

[Tortoise]

I think the fact that Joey started using printed cheques for the first time in I think around January 2010 may have some relevance to the case, but I don't know what yet. It could be that Chase persuaded Joey to start using the cheque printing feature so that printed cheques would be less of an anomaly. I suspect Chase knew his handwriting wouldn't pass the smell test.

 

[citygirl]

Someone asked me about Quickbooks and I think it is really intrinsic to a discussion about this case to at least know the basics in regard to that software. Some of this everyone may know already, but it seems worth reviewing. Caveat: I could be mistaken about some of what I'm posting here. The DA has not laid out all the details, so we'll see how close I am to being accurate as the trial progresses, but here's what I know, anyway. For what it is worth.

From what I understand, Joey used Quickbooks Intuit (Not Quickbooks Pro). His first "account" "Contacts" was generated in 2004, so it may be that Joey had a 2004 version of Quickbooks Intuit and had not upgraded since then. And it would appear that he only purchased one license. Which means that technically, he was supposed to be the only person accessing the program. (An account is generally tied to a bank account and you can have numerous "accounts" even if you only have one license.)

In 2007 Joey sets up a second "account" for his Quickbooks program "Custom".

According to the preliminary hearing transcript the account titled "Contacts" documented ALL of Joey's finances, everything from his business to his mortgage to his various bank accounts.

The account titled "Custom" was strictly for business conducted between Joey and Chase.

With Quickbooks you can dictate who has access to different information by way of the email and password you give them. The owner of the software can, for example dictate that email: owner@gmail.com with password "access"-has access to all data.

But then a second email and password can be created, and it is possible in Quickbooks to restrict access for that email and password. So, for example, when Joey created the new email and password for "Custom" , for the sake of this example, let's pretend it was: notowner@gmail.com; password "limited access", the person with only that email and password, would only see what Joey wanted them to see. They wouldn't necessarily be able to see any of Joey's personal accounts or bank balances.

I don't know for a fact that Joey set things up this way, but I suspect he did. It seems very possible that if someone were to put in the email and password for the "Custom" they would only have access to data specific to that account, which is why Chase could not use the drop down vendor list from "Contacts". If I'm right about this, that would explain why Chase created new vendor contacts.

I don't want to bore everyone to tears, but it did seem that some of the nuances in the Quickbooks software are not widely known.

Quickbooks is awesome. I've used it in a number of different ways. And for the small business person it allows for some, kind of creative, applications when monitoring expenses, etc.

Admittedly, this is all Latin to me. Yet, what I am extrapolating is that Joseph did the second Quickbooks, Custom, and could have given CM some access? Would the Quickbooks people be able to verify that?
From what I understand his first account , Contacts, he used to record everything and write checks but did not have this connected to a bank. Do I have that right?

 

[citygirl]

Just wanted to comment why you could appear to be backdating a check. If you manually wrote out a check on the 4th, but were posting the check into the system on the 5th, the system would log & date it the 5th, so you would manually change the date back to the 4th. The log would remain dated the fifth, but the check would have the correct date of issue. If you are printing a computer generated check, you normally leave the date alone as the check is being issued "today" in the system. You never delete a check, for obvious reasons, even though the option exists. You void it. I believe the system even asks you to confirm you want to do such an idiotic thing.

You would never delete an active check. Ever. No possible reason to do that.

Thanks. Still confused. He posted the check, then back dated and deleted. My question. Did he get the money from those checks?

 

[Longtimenoc]

First check ever printed on Custom side of the account was printed and cashed by Merritt for $2495 on Feb 2nd at Union National near his home, 2 days prior to the familys' disappearance

 

[thelmadawg]

Snip:

[QUOTE=". . . With Quickbooks you can dictate who has access to different information by way of the email and password you give them. The owner of the software can, for example dictate that email: owner@gmail.com with password "access"-has access to all data.

But then a second email and password can be created, and it is possible in Quickbooks to restrict access for that email and password. So, for example, when Joey created the new email and password for "Custom" , for the sake of this example, let's pretend it was: notowner@gmail.com; password "limited access", the person with only that email and password, would only see what Joey wanted them to see. They wouldn't necessarily be able to see any of Joey's personal accounts or bank balances.

I don't know for a fact that Joey set things up this way, but I suspect he did.[/QUOTE]

If, indeed the account was set up to include, say, Chase, wouldn't that information be available to a forensic study of the account? Using the exemplar again, wouldn't the second user have a forensic history that would be visible in a review of the account?

 

[Tortoise]

First check ever printed on Custom side of the account was printed and cashed by Merritt for $2495 on Feb 2nd at Union National near his home, 2 days prior to the familys' disappearance

Two cheques were also printed and deleted on Feb 1st but they were never cashed or deposited.

 

[Longtimenoc]

On the 5th, between 12 and 12 thirty pm, Merritt printed and cashed 15k worth of checks, backdating them to the 2nd. Two of those checks went to Metro. Merritt signed these checks as Joseph.