CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[Longtimenoc]

Chase used the log in for ONE of Joey's accounts: Custom. The account that was specifically created for Joey's work with Chase.

Is no one understanding that there are two separate accounts, with separate log-ins? I feel like this isn't computing somehow.

Why do you think that the Custom account was created to include Chase? Pretty sure that Joey used the Contact acct for writing checks to pay bills, not the Custom

 

[JMarsh]

Ok, but here is my question then.

I haven't used QB for a few years now. So I cannot remember this part. But I had a custom account. And my son had one section that he could view and write checks from.

But I also had one that my daughter wrote checks from. And one for my home based business. <<,All of these were in my custom account. I could log in and have access to all 3 of these folders.

But IIRC, my son could only write checks from his. And my daughter only had access to hers, etc. And they both had separate log ins, as far as I remember. Otherwise, what would be the point of having separate custom partitions?

MY LOGIN HAD TOTAL ACCESS to the entire Custom account. But my kids did not. is that how it works? That is how I remember it.

I've never actually used Quickbooks this way-I was always the only user, I downloaded a manual. But even in later versions of QB the way you describe it appears to be possible. I'm presenting this more as an alternative explanation-but either the DA or the DA and defense both will give us the full details of how those accounts were set-up.

One concern I have is that it is unlikely investigators have ever used QB. I wonder if they understood the variables.

 

[JMarsh]

Why do you think that the Custom account was created to include Chase? Pretty sure that Joey used the Contact acct for writing checks to pay bills, not the Custom

It is explained in the preliminary hearing transcript.

 

[JMarsh]

Okay. Next question. Is there a way to know when Joseph set this up?

I think there has to be.

 

[Longtimenoc]

Why do you think that the Custom account was created to include Chase? Pretty sure that Joey used the Contact acct for writing checks to pay bills, not the Custom

Also, wouldnt it be unusual that Merritts checks on this Custom account be the first and only ones written on that account?

 

[JMarsh]

Also, wouldnt it be unusual that Merritts checks on this Custom account be the first and only ones written on that account?

No. Not really. It could be that this was a new arrangement. Joey doesn't appear to have allowed Chase to access the Contacts account in anyway. Easier to keep oversight if his usage and Chase's is separate.

Also, I think Joey may well have been prepping to go to a strictly desktop platform.

 

[katydid23]

many of our questions are answered here:

The Case in Chief

[from June 15, 2015 Preliminary Hearing]

Monday, February 1, 2010
-On February 1, the Monday before the McStay family of four vanishes, defendant Charles (Chase) Merritt accesses (for the very first time) one of Joseph McStay’s on-line Intuit QuickBooks accounts.

–Merritt enters this on-line database utilizing Joseph McStay’s log-in and password, and does this from a computer located somewhere other than in the McStay home.

-The QuickBooks Intuit account accessed is titled: “Custom.”

–A “new” vendor is added by Merritt (or it is assumed by Merritt) to the “Custom” QB account: “charles merritt” all lower case. “Charles Merritt” already exists in Joseph McStay’s other, older, account “Contacts“. In the Contacts account, the vendor is listed as “Charles Merritt” with the formal capitalization of the name.

-After this “new” vendor, “charles merritt” is added to the Custom account, at 12:34 pm two checks are written to “charles merritt”, for $2,500, ref. “deposit” (again only lower case letters are used).

-These two checks are printed, then deleted from the ledger. Yet, neither check is ever cashed.


[Joseph McStay had two Intuit On-Line QuickBooks accounts. His first and primary account was created in 2004 and he titled it “Contacts“. The Contacts account was used to keep record of receivables and payables for McStay’s on-line company Earth Inspired Products (EIP), and also tracked his personal finances. His second account, Custom, was created in 2008 after he had begun working with Charles Merritt. And from all reports the Custom account was created solely to track money owed to Merritt (minus advances or loans made to Merritt by McStay).

McStay was not known to draft checks from either the Contacts or Custom accounts by way of his computer. He would instead hand-write checks and later add the details to the Contacts Account as a matter of record keeping.

Prior to February 1, 2010 the Custom account was never used for check writing at all, but instead tallied McStay’s work with Merritt.



Each account, Contacts and Custom had their own separate login IDs and passwords.]

To date law enforcement has not stated where they believe Merritt was when he accessed McStay’s account, or what computer he was using.

Tuesday, February 2, 2010
-Again, Joseph’s Custom QuickBooks/Inuit account is accessed from a computer or device located outside of the McStay residence.

–On this day at around 11:30 am, a check is created for “chase merritt”. It is in the amount of $2,495.00. It is printed, then deleted from the ledger.

-This check is cashed at a branch of Joseph McStay’s bank–Union Bank—the person cashing this check: Charles Ray Merritt.

-This same day a handwritten check from Joseph McStay to “Charles Merritt” for $200.00 is also deposited by Charles Merritt. $100 of this check is deposited to open a brand new account for Merritt at Bank of America.



Thursday, February 4, 2010


-Both Joseph and Summer McStay speak with family and friends in the morning.

-At around noon, Joseph logs into one of his Intuit QuickBooks accounts.

-Which account McStay logs into, whether it is the Contacts or the Custom account, is not made clear in the prelim, but given that a mention is made of this, it might well have been the Custom account.

-Shortly after logging into the QuickBooks Intuit account, Joseph McStay calls his bank.

-At some point after making this call, it is believed that Joseph drives to a Chik Fil A in Rancho Cucamonga for a business lunch with Chase Merritt.

-Investigators track Joseph McStay’s phone calls later in the afternoon, post-meeting. McStay’s phone pings have him returning directly home after this lunch meeting.

-Chase Merrit’s phone pings in Rancho Cucamonga until 5:47 pm, when Merritt speaks to Joseph McStay for just under three minutes.

Then for whatever reason, Merritt’s phone is out of reach of cell towers until 9:32 pm.

-Merritt’s cell phone does register 6 incoming calls during this time period, so it can be assumed that Chase’s phone was likely off or in airplane mode, because though the calls register as missed, there was no ping activity found.

 

[katydid23]

No. Not really. It could be that this was a new arrangement. Joey doesn't appear to have allowed Chase to access the Contacts account in anyway. Easier to keep oversight if his usage and Chase's is separate.

Also, I think Joey may well have been prepping to go to a strictly desktop platform.

Isn't it a big coincidence that this 'new arrangement' came about at the same time the family vanished?

 

[JMarsh]

Isn't it a big coincidence that this 'new arrangement' came about at the same time the family vanished?

Going out on a longer limb here-the defense may be claiming that this activity precedes the murders because it is a step toward excluding Dan. Dan perceived this and killed the family to take over the business or get money. One or both, not sure which the defense will focus on specifically.

My belief is that coincidences occur. Life is full of them.

 

[Longtimenoc]

No. Not really. It could be that this was a new arrangement. Joey doesn't appear to have allowed Chase to access the Contacts account in anyway. Easier to keep oversight if his usage and Chase's is separate.

Also, I think Joey may well have been prepping to go to a strictly desktop platform.

No. Not really. It could be that this was a new arrangement. Joey doesn't appear to have allowed Chase to access the Contacts account in anyway. Easier to keep oversight if his usage and Chase's is separate.

Also, I think Joey may well have been prepping to go to a strictly desktop platform.

This possible new arrangement occured at a bad time given the business owners disappearance

 

[travelbug]

I think the fact that Joey started using printed cheques for the first time in I think around January 2010 may have some relevance to the case, but I don't know what yet. It could be that Chase persuaded Joey to start using the cheque printing feature so that printed cheques would be less of an anomaly. I suspect Chase knew his handwriting wouldn't pass the smell test.

I find it equally possible that it was Joey attempting to hide his business from DK (aka "Dan the hacker"). The January date would correspond with JM"s argument with DK about ownership and control of EIP. DK was able to access (and remotely alter) the computerized EIP accounts. He designed and set up the system. I would not be surprised to learn that Joey was trying to cut off all EIP and personal financial access to DK

 

[JMarsh]

I find it equally possible that it was Joey attempting to hide his business from DK (aka "Dan the hacker"). The January date would correspond with JM"s argument with DK about ownership and control of EIP. DK was able to access (and remotely alter) the computerized EIP accounts. He designed and set up the system. I would not be surprised to learn that Joey was trying to cut off all EIP and personal financial access to DK

We also know that Joey didn't want even Joe Sequieda to know exactly what he was making on fountains. I think Joey saw a change coming. A huge increase in his business and income. He was moving out of just having a little on-line business to potentially something much much bigger. He was smart-it was time to protect his assets more carefully than he'd had to when he was simply reselling pre-manufactured fountains.

 

[Emi]

Home | Superior Court of California

thanks but I can't find anything when searching criminal case

 

[citygirl]

I've never actually used Quickbooks this way-I was always the only user, I downloaded a manual. But even in later versions of QB the way you describe it appears to be possible. I'm presenting this more as an alternative explanation-but either the DA or the DA and defense both will give us the full details of how those accounts were set-up.

One concern I have is that it is unlikely investigators have ever used QB. I wonder if they understood the variables.

Sheeesh. I sure hope so!

 

[katydid23]

Going out on a longer limb here-the defense may be claiming that this activity precedes the murders because it is a step toward excluding Dan. Dan perceived this and killed the family to take over the business or get money. One or both, not sure which the defense will focus on specifically.

My belief is that coincidences occur. Life is full of them.

But here is the problem with accusing Dan. 'Someone' sat down at Joey's computer and logged in to the custom account, on Feb 4th, and created a check :

-7:59 pm someone from inside the McStay residence creates a check on Joseph’s desktop computer. This check is on the “Custom” account. It is made out to “charles merritt” in the amount of $4,000. Ref. Paul Mitchell.

-8:05 pm the “Paul Mitchell” check is deleted. Never printed. Never cashed.



Then on the 5th of Feb, that same check, plus 500 more bucks, is created again:

It has not been made public exactly what Chase Merritt was doing this day, other than at 12:06 pm Joseph McStay’s Online QuickBook Intuit account “Custom” is accessed once again from a computer or device NOT within the McStay residence.

-The first check is generated at 12:06 pm, is made out to “charlesmerritt”. Ref. “paul mitchell”, all lower case. (Though the amount differs from the previous night (an additional $500 is added bringing the final amount to $4,500), it is the same in every other regard.) The preliminary hearing is sketchy in regard to the specifics of this check. At some point, the check is altered and backdated to reflect a February 4, 2010, creation date.

-The Paul Mitchell check for $4,500 is later deleted from the QuickBooks ledger, however, it is cashed by Charles Merritt at Union Bank.

-An additional vendor is added this day: “metro sheet metal” –all lower case. (“Metro Sheet Metal” already exists as a vendor in the Contact account, only it is listed in that account with capitalization “Metro Sheet Metal”. )

-Two checks are written to this new vendor: One for $1,650 the other for $250.

-These two checks for Metro Sheet Metal were backdated to February 4, 2010 and printed, it is unclear from the prelim-hearing transcript if they were deleted from the ledger.

-Checks also written on this day and backdated to February 4, and deleted from the ledger from Joseph McStay’s QuickBook Intuit account, are for vendor “charlesmerritt”.


SO , IMO, IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE THAT DAN WAS THE ONE AT JOEYS ON THE 4TH, CREATING THAT CHASE MERRITT/PAUL MITCHELL CHECK. That check ended up in Chase's bank account.

 

[katydid23]

We also know that Joey didn't want even Joe Sequieda to know exactly what he was making on fountains. I think Joey saw a change coming. A huge increase in his business and income. He was moving out of just having a little on-line business to potentially something much much bigger. He was smart-it was time to protect his assets more carefully than he'd had to when he was simply reselling pre-manufactured fountains.

If so, then why would he want Chase, of all people, to have more access to his financial info and his checkbook?

 

[citygirl]

many of our questions are answered here:

The Case in Chief

[from June 15, 2015 Preliminary Hearing]

Monday, February 1, 2010
-On February 1, the Monday before the McStay family of four vanishes, defendant Charles (Chase) Merritt accesses (for the very first time) one of Joseph McStay’s on-line Intuit QuickBooks accounts.

–Merritt enters this on-line database utilizing Joseph McStay’s log-in and password, and does this from a computer located somewhere other than in the McStay home.

-The QuickBooks Intuit account accessed is titled: “Custom.”

–A “new” vendor is added by Merritt (or it is assumed by Merritt) to the “Custom” QB account: “charles merritt” all lower case. “Charles Merritt” already exists in Joseph McStay’s other, older, account “Contacts“. In the Contacts account, the vendor is listed as “Charles Merritt” with the formal capitalization of the name.

-After this “new” vendor, “charles merritt” is added to the Custom account, at 12:34 pm two checks are written to “charles merritt”, for $2,500, ref. “deposit” (again only lower case letters are used).

-These two checks are printed, then deleted from the ledger. Yet, neither check is ever cashed.


[Joseph McStay had two Intuit On-Line QuickBooks accounts. His first and primary account was created in 2004 and he titled it “Contacts“. The Contacts account was used to keep record of receivables and payables for McStay’s on-line company Earth Inspired Products (EIP), and also tracked his personal finances. His second account, Custom, was created in 2008 after he had begun working with Charles Merritt. And from all reports the Custom account was created solely to track money owed to Merritt (minus advances or loans made to Merritt by McStay).

McStay was not known to draft checks from either the Contacts or Custom accounts by way of his computer. He would instead hand-write checks and later add the details to the Contacts Account as a matter of record keeping.

Prior to February 1, 2010 the Custom account was never used for check writing at all, but instead tallied McStay’s work with Merritt.



Each account, Contacts and Custom had their own separate login IDs and passwords.]

To date law enforcement has not stated where they believe Merritt was when he accessed McStay’s account, or what computer he was using.

Tuesday, February 2, 2010
-Again, Joseph’s Custom QuickBooks/Inuit account is accessed from a computer or device located outside of the McStay residence.

–On this day at around 11:30 am, a check is created for “chase merritt”. It is in the amount of $2,495.00. It is printed, then deleted from the ledger.

-This check is cashed at a branch of Joseph McStay’s bank–Union Bank—the person cashing this check: Charles Ray Merritt.

-This same day a handwritten check from Joseph McStay to “Charles Merritt” for $200.00 is also deposited by Charles Merritt. $100 of this check is deposited to open a brand new account for Merritt at Bank of America.



Thursday, February 4, 2010


-Both Joseph and Summer McStay speak with family and friends in the morning.

-At around noon, Joseph logs into one of his Intuit QuickBooks accounts.

-Which account McStay logs into, whether it is the Contacts or the Custom account, is not made clear in the prelim, but given that a mention is made of this, it might well have been the Custom account.

-Shortly after logging into the QuickBooks Intuit account, Joseph McStay calls his bank.

-At some point after making this call, it is believed that Joseph drives to a Chik Fil A in Rancho Cucamonga for a business lunch with Chase Merritt.

-Investigators track Joseph McStay’s phone calls later in the afternoon, post-meeting. McStay’s phone pings have him returning directly home after this lunch meeting.

-Chase Merrit’s phone pings in Rancho Cucamonga until 5:47 pm, when Merritt speaks to Joseph McStay for just under three minutes.

Then for whatever reason, Merritt’s phone is out of reach of cell towers until 9:32 pm.

-Merritt’s cell phone does register 6 incoming calls during this time period, so it can be assumed that Chase’s phone was likely off or in airplane mode, because though the calls register as missed, there was no ping activity found.

Well there it is. Plain and simple.

 

[Mica]

thanks but I can't find anything when searching criminal case

Here’s the case number... FVI1404194

 

[missy1974]

[Joseph McStay had two Intuit On-Line QuickBooks accounts. His first and primary account was created in 2004 and he titled it “Contacts“. The Contacts account was used to keep record of receivables and payables for McStay’s on-line company Earth Inspired Products (EIP), and also tracked his personal finances. His second account, Custom, was created in 2008 after he had begun working with Charles Merritt. And from all reports the Custom account was created solely to track money owed to Merritt (minus advances or loans made to Merritt by McStay).

McStay was not known to draft checks from either the Contacts or Custom accounts by way of his computer. He would instead hand-write checks and later add the details to the Contacts Account as a matter of record keeping.

Prior to February 1, 2010 the Custom account was never used for check writing at all, but instead tallied McStay’s work with Merritt.


Each account, Contacts and Custom had their own separate login IDs and passwords.]

Snipped by me because of the length!

In red.... this is what JMarsh has been saying.

In blue... this is actually not true, and we know this now because of Carmen's testimony. He actually started printing cheques back in Nov/Dec 2010. He didn't exclusively print them, but the majority were printed.

Made bigger and pinker by me... That is what JMarsh has been saying! The defense was trying to get that out as well during Baker's testimony.

@JMarsh ... correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what you have been saying, right? I know you have added more to that, but this is the basis of what you are saying. 2 different accounts, 2 different log in's. CM only having access to the one account.

 

[missy1974]

Going out on a longer limb here-the defense may be claiming that this activity precedes the murders because it is a step toward excluding Dan. Dan perceived this and killed the family to take over the business or get money. One or both, not sure which the defense will focus on specifically.

My belief is that coincidences occur. Life is full of them.

They have definitely implied that Dan was looking at the Quickbooks online. IMO