CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[LovesPeace2]

I sure as hell hope this is right. I'm not one who thinks prosecutors are any smarter, on average, than the rest of population and, right now, we know nothing about what they've got on Frazee. I hope it's air tight. At this point, all I know is the co-conspirator is getting off way too easy.

BTW, while searching twitter for any updates, I ran across another Woodland Park case that the cops and DA totally blew. Her name was Mindy Lee. I suppose she was a topic on this board.

That case is one huge mess,the bailbondsman Bobby brown has done alot of podcasts on it and has been working it with Mindy's mom

 

[MyBelle]

In a perfect world protection orders would save all the lives that are threatened. In reality, not so much.

In reality, no protection orders save no one. KK didn't bother to try.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

he is destroying his family's reputation and costing them a lot of time, money and anguish

Well, I only see him as having destroyed KB's life and that of her family. His family is not responsible for what he's done so I don't see their reputation being affected but I can imagine that PF's crime is very difficult for them to process. With respect to costing them money, I recall he has a public defender. His mother could save herself the expense of an attorney by not fighting for custody of baby K, and allowing the B's to find some solace in raising their deceased daughter's child. JMO

 

[Artis]

I would really like to know the extent of KK's communication with PF between the time of the murder and the time of his arrest.
If she contacted him at all, it would be hard to believe that she was afraid of him. Depending on the content of the text messages or phone calls, it could be very telling evidence.
The RR's said in their interview that when KK went back to Idaho she had a different phone. I wonder if they were communicating with tracfones, which are much harder for LE to obtain messages from.
If it were Kelseys phone, I would think she would make sure it was well hidden. Imo

IIRC, the Rs contacted CBI on 12/17 but found out that KK's property was already being searched and somewhere else it was reported those warrants were obtained on 12/15. PF was arrested on 12/21. I would imagine any communication between these two scumbags stopped as soon she was aware of the SWs (12/15-17).

 

[thesaint]

I sure as hell hope this is right. I'm not one who thinks prosecutors are any smarter, on average, than the rest of population and, right now, we know nothing about what they've got on Frazee. I hope it's air tight. At this point, all I know is the co-conspirator is getting off way too easy.

BTW, while searching twitter for any updates, I ran across another Woodland Park case that the cops and DA totally blew. Her name was Mindy Lee. I suppose she was a topic on this board.

Seems like the best prosecutors either end up switching to the defense bar or moving on to some sort of higher office. That said, courtrooms are home court / tilted to favor the prosecution. Not only because many/most judges are former prosecutors, but I believe the weight of the law itself favors the prosecution--due to the prosecution's burden of proof.

So prosecutors are more likely to get their evidence admitted while judges keep a tight rein on what they'll allow the defense to introduce into evidence. Cuz if the defense could get everything they wanted into evidence, no one would ever be ever convicted of anything.

Judge Ito sank the prosecution in the OJ trial once he started letting the defense bring in all manner of water-muddying background issues that may or may not have had much relevance to the proceedings.

I imagine there'll be major tussles over the defense delving into KK's background for impeachment purposes if she ends up taking the stand in this case. Prosecutor prolly will try to keep KK's direct testimony tightly-focused on the time-frame and events surrounding KB's disappearance; cuz anything the prosecution touches on on direct, it gives the defense the opening to go deeper there on cross.

 

[Artis]

Especially when you're not the one who pulled the "trigger" so to speak.
I think PF did the wet-work.

Now, there's a term I don't think I've ever seen used outside of a conspiracy/CIA type thread. Good one. That caused me to look up the origin, which I'd never done (as it speaks for itself):

Wetwork (Russian: мокрое дело, tr. mokroye delo)[1] is a euphemism for murder or assassination, alluding to spilling blood. The expression and the similar wet job, wet affair, or wet operation—all calques of Russian terms for such activities—can be traced to criminal slang from at least the 19th century[2][3] and originally meant robbery that involved murder, i.e., spilling blood.

These operations are reputed to have been handled by the CIA, and also by the KGB's Spetsbureau 13, colorfully known as the "Department of Wet Affairs" (Otdel mokrykh del).

 

[Artis]

I know. Because at my job I listen to the most outrageous drama theatrical stories, complete with sobbing, swearing, hair pulling. And the stories get so convoluted into who said what, who did what, it makes me think that is what police officers must deal with quite often.

What line of work are you in?

1. Probation office
2. Walmart customer service agent
3. Bartender
4. Other

 

[Artis]

I don't blame him! If I were him I'd be remaining shtum, especially for my children's sake.

He's likely ruing the day he ever met KK in her sparkly cowgirl outfit with horse manure on her boots!

MOO

Yeah, I wonder because I've seen (here) people say she resided with him after their divorce. Who knows what he's like but I'd throw her and all of her *advertiser censored* out on the front lawn as soon as I learned this stuff. I'd also move to have her parental rights terminated.

 

[Artis]

In all my gullibility, (and I am sometimes a dumbass, I admit it) I don't think PF has anything on KK other than that she loved him, was a tool, and he was her "first real love" *puke* and went along with his evil plan. I feel this is just a pretty simplistic Occam's case.

I don't think there's some smoking gun here.

I think KK aided and abetted PF in his plan to kill KB, hoping that they'd both ride off into the sunset together and he'd horseshoe and breed cow-dawgs whilst she did her rodeos, and regain their teen romance.

MOO

Pretty much that. Add in her being a personality disordered thrill seeker who's attracted to a bad boy sociopath.

 

[Artis]

And YOU may be absolutely right! Like Artis, my other interest lies in conspiracy, just not those really wild tin foil hat ones Perhaps my fertile imagination is getting the better of me!

The term "conspiracy theorist" was coined by CIA disinfo agents to discredit those who questioned the official narrative of the JFK assassination. Sane people people question everything and game probabilities. I love your posts!

 

[susiQ]

Unfortunately, my "enquiring mind" is still fixated on that excuse of an interview CBS did with MS.

We've already covered the "very, very good reason for whatever she did or did not do." (shaking my head again)

On to the rest.

"I think he is a very dangerous person."
"She has never seen that kind of evil in anybody."

Conveniently, when Nikki asks her, "take me to the first moment when K told you that P tried to involve her in this crime," she responds with, "I will just tell you, K was very, very scared," not answering the question. "She was absolutely scared, extremely upset", "fear, legitimate fear."

Nikki says, "If she didn't comply, Patrick might kill her?" M responds, "Yes, that's what I believe, yes." Notice she doesn't respond with, "Yes, that's what K told me." Her response is an assumption on her part.

So we're left no more enlightened than when the interview began, really. We don't know WHEN exactly KK realized "she has never seen that kind of evil in anybody." Was it the first, second or third time PF solicited her OR was it when she arrived in WP and saw KB's dead body and what he had done to her? I put this forward quite a while back, that LE knew she was dead because someone had seen the body. I am in no way saying KK was involved in the actual murder but I think she was an accessory after the fact and has pleaded down to tampering with evidence in return for her testimony and the evidence she has already provided.

I sure would like to have a chat with her co-workers to get a feel for her demeanor when she returned to work on Nov. 26th.

As always, just MOO.

 

[Mimi in London]

I can't speak to the situation in Idaho, but I can provide some insight regarding the mindset of people in communities similar to it in surrounding states. The critical factor is whether community members are helpful or hurtful, particularly if the "family name" is being threatened. A large portion of the land within small ranching communities is owned by only a few families. In the ID, WY, MO, CO region those families have generally been long time residents. They start out buying a plot of land and ranching or farming it in order to support their family. If they are fortunate the business succeeds and the start accumulating savings to purchase more land to increase their income. After a couple of decades these residents are the same people that decide it is time to provide some services that will benefit the community. The landowners form partnerships and provide things like a local bank, a closer place to shop for daily needs, repair places for their equipment, doctors/dentists, apartments (so their employees can stay close), etc. The vast number of families I have been associated with have viewed that in a noble way. They are making their "hometown" more comfortable for their friends and family. If you are a resident of their hometown, even if these more powerful families are wonderful people, you are always aware that it is best to "for them" and "not against them". If the local media speaks in an unfavorable way about someone, the friends and family will withdraw their support. In a small town that is frequently a shortcut to closing your doors. Residents cancel their subscriptions and if you've been borrowing from the bank to operate your business the funding will dry up, etc. It's difficult for "cityfolk" to comprehend the level of support, both fiscally and socially, provided to families in small and isolated communities. People who are at odds with the "community viewpoint" generally pick up stakes and move away. jmoo

Wel, that answered my question. Thank you TB. Really very interesting. And it explains a lot (including your username )

 

[Artis]

Agree Travelbug. I moved to Twin Falls in Aug 2016. It took me 6 mos to know I made a mistake, and returned. I grew up in a Mid West small town, lived in a major SW big city and wanted a change. The things I didn't like growing up in a small town hadn't changed 45 years later. Twin Falls is both a small town and very Mormon. Generally speaking, If you are not "local", you are out. People were very nice, but good luck getting a professional job.

I am not surprised at the community silence, and frankly, astounded the R's and MS spoke out. Makes me think a pre emptive strike (R) and covering tracks and or guilty conscience for talking to R's (MS)

Interesting to hear from an outsider who lived there.

 

[Kapua]

Someone mentioned KK had family in CO..that she could have driven the 800 miles to see family and PF. Well, wouldn't she have taken her kids to visit family? Maybe I'm wrong but to me, she drove 800 miles to see PF. That is A LOT of driving. And sorry but what dumb@ss woman to drive that far to see a man. And one would need a good amount of time off for that.
I don't get it...KB moved there to be with him...KK drives all that way...sorry don't get the appeal there.

We don't know for a fact that KK has family in CO. We don't know for a fact which days KK was in CO. And we don't know whether or not she took her kids with her on that trip.

 

[Artis]

I have personally met two grieving significant others. And have always been interested in these cases, after my experience with the survivors of such a tragic accident. It is quite interesting.

Okay, well, two is fewer than several but it's still pretty unusual. I'd put it up there with knowing two people whose spouses were eaten by sharks. What are the chances?!

 

[Artis]

Emph. Mine

Lol. Thanks for some levity.
Karma can be a B.

Sorry, there's nothing remotely humorous about this tragedy.
But catching up here and it's obvious some people knew KB was going to die and did nothing.... just makes my blood pressure soar.
There's another person closely connected who has not been named a poi-- but I think this one could be at some point.

What did PF say ?
It's doubtful anyone was in fear for their life.
MOO

Is it okay for you give the initials of who else you think may become a POI?

What do you mean, "what did PF say?"? Are you referring to his complaint about being railroaded?

 

[Artis]

That case is one huge mess,the bailbondsman Bobby brown has done alot of podcasts on it and has been working it with Mindy's mom

I only did a quick read on it and it sounded absurd. There's a petition demanding her case be re-opened. Cases of obvious murder that are ruled suicide are always outrageous and there are a lot of them.

 

[Artis]

Seems like the best prosecutors either end up switching to the defense bar or moving on to some sort of higher office. That said, courtrooms are home court / tilted to favor the prosecution. Not only because many/most judges are former prosecutors, but I believe the weight of the law itself favors the prosecution--due to the prosecution's burden of proof.

So prosecutors are more likely to get their evidence admitted while judges keep a tight rein on what they'll allow the defense to introduce into evidence. Cuz if the defense could get everything they wanted into evidence, no one would ever be ever convicted of anything.

Judge Ito sank the prosecution in the OJ trial once he started letting the defense bring in all manner of water-muddying background issues that may or may not have had much relevance to the proceedings.

I imagine there'll be major tussles over the defense delving into KK's background for impeachment purposes if she ends up taking the stand in this case. Prosecutor prolly will try to keep KK's direct testimony tightly-focused on the time-frame and events surrounding KB's disappearance; cuz anything the prosecution touches on on direct, it gives the defense the opening to go deeper there on cross.

The defense can also call her as their own (hostile) witness, right? You know the prosecution will use her to maximum damage against Frazee so if she has further involvement in the crime that the defense knows about, they have nothing to lose by trying to rip her to shreds, right?

 

[justaparent]

I certainly hate to see the trend that headlines are moving now that the KK crowd is spreading the “she was soooo scared” story. I hope this changes as more comes to light. The media obviously feels it needs new clickbait.

 

[MsBetsy]

IIRC, the Rs contacted CBI on 12/17 but found out that KK's property was already being searched and somewhere else it was reported those warrants were obtained on 12/15. PF was arrested on 12/21. I would imagine any communication between these two scumbags stopped as soon she was aware of the SWs (12/15-17).

Yes, and by then they would have had the chance to dispose of the phones, leaving it very difficult for LE to find any evidence of their communication. Imo