CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[Artis]

I understand what you're saying. Now, this may not be popular, but just how I'm feeling at the moment about M. M has been used and abused by KK. The interview was ridiculous in my mind, but M doesn't see that. She is without a doubt a flying monkey and has NO idea what role she is playing in this sorry tale. No critical thinking going on in her mind. She's a devoted friend. I blame the journalist that interviewed her more than her. It was an excuse for an interview. You call that journalism?Why even bother? Had she had the wherewithal to ask pertinent questions, maybe, just maybe, a light bulb would have gone off in M's head. We know THAT didn't happen.

I can't cut her that kind of slack. First she tells the Rs that Kelsey is missing - and it's possible that KK lied and told her that - but then she finds out that KK really knew Kelsey was murdered AND had her phone and she still gets out there and does damage control, making excuses for her. That's where the line gets crossed from being a hapless moron to becoming a complicit enabler of someone involved in - to whatever degree - a murder.

 

[srg]

@srg - I really liked your post on implicit memory and I pray she did not see or hear a thing.

I've thought quite a lot about how people tell little ones about a murdered parent. I can't get past "Mommy's in Heaven". What comes after that - daddy was naughty? How in the hell does anyone explain THAT part? Little kids are usually pretty good on transitioning a loved one to Heaven but I can't imagine how murder is explained. It would have to be an incremental revealing, I would think. Very simplistic, at first, but what does that look like? Gradually, as the child ages and they get more information, at some point, utter horror at the realization. I think it's critical that the truth is told so bombs don't get dropped later on but I can't figure out how that truth would be unveiled.

@Artis Thank you for that! And you’re so right about being delicate in having those conversations with kids.

Regardless of whether the child witnessed a parent’s murder or “only” loses a parent for other reasons, the child, like baby K, will be impacted by the loss of one of their most important attachment figures.

Main thing is to let the child talk on his/her own terms and on their timeline. In other words, not forcing the conversation or asking too many questions. Rather, have the child talk about their feelings about losing a parent or the traumatic event through play and while feeling safe. Kids with pre-verbal traumas will express more when you communicate through their non-verbal channels (art) than through direct conversation.

Many child psychologists do this very well through play therapy or art therapy.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I hope they checked KB's vehicles, too. He had her purse and keys. The only report of him was when the neighbor spotted his truck on Thanksgiving. He could have put KB's body in her car or truck and disposed of it later. That would greatly reduce the chances of evidence in his own truck.

Thank you for saying this. I have been thinking the same thing. I hope they tested both her own vehicles.

KB did not list him as the father's last name on the certificate of live birth meaning she has legal control over the child. She also may not have listed him as the father since not married. This means he would have to have paternity testing performed and file for rights. Since there was no marriage there may have been limitations.

Do we actually know this? That PF is not listed as the father on the birth certificate? I did not think we had heard anything whatsoever about this, but some folks were confusing "baby being given mom's last name" with "PF not listed as father".

 

[travelbug]

Link that information plz.

I'm not the poster you asked, but I did find this:
..."When cops searched her home, her car and purse were still there, as were some cold cinnamon rolls.
Frazee also received a text from his fiancee’s phone Nov. 25, De Young said. Berreth’s phone last pinged on Nov. 25 in Idaho, where her mother lives."

https://nypost.com/2018/12/10/text-sent-from-missing-moms-phone-days-after-she-vanished/

 

[Artis]

I certainly agree with you, but if the text to Doss was not sent from KB's phone, that alone could be the reason that KKL was charged with tampering, rather than as an accessory. IMO

I don't have a smart phone but when you send a text, isn't your name (the sender), which is connected to your account, at the top of the text? Seems like Doss would question such a message, allegedly from Kelsey, being sent from another phone and you know Doss had Kelsey's real cell phone number to verify anything suspicious.

 

[girlhasnoname]

As far as whether KK was in CO around the time of the murder, seems to me we don't know exactly when the murder happened. Under COUNT 3. MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE it says “on or about Nov 22, 2018.”

So, this seems to imply that if KK arrived in CO as late as Nov 24, she could be involved in the actual murder, right?

However, seems like KB was murdered closer to Nov 22 since that is when she was last seen. Now of KB wasn’t murdered on Nov 22, then what was done to her between Nov 22-Nov 23/24?

Redacted C&I 18CR330

DBM

 

[susiQ]

I can't cut her that kind of slack. First she tells the Rs that Kelsey is missing - and it's possible that KK lied and told her that - but then she finds out that KK really knew Kelsey was murdered AND had her phone and she still gets out there and does damage control, making excuses for her. That's where the line gets crossed from being a hapless moron to becoming a complicit enabler of someone involved in - to whatever degree - a murder.

I agree! On pg 14 I posted something to clarify that I'm not giving her a pass just because I think KK used her. I should have included that in the post you quoted.

 

[Dave F.]

I guess I am wondering exactly what their connection is with the age difference they cannot be friends say from High School, they did not work in the same field, we do know they roomed together at one time. Just thinking MS should have 15 years more life experience than KK, hard to imagine her being a follower or naive to KK's involvement with PF and KB's murder, especially her working closely with attorneys
I assume she had seen and heard a lot of BS along the way.

When did they room together?

 

[srg]

That Count No 3 is different isn't it? I know we heard of a Robbery related in the original murder one counts, but I don't remember if it said furtherance or flight therefrom? Could this be a charge for DP eligibility?

First-degree murder is punishable by death in Colorado if:[2]
It was committed by a person under sentence of imprisonment for a class 1, 2, or 3 felony

1. The defendant was previously convicted of a class 1 or 2 felony involving violence
2. The defendant knowingly killed a law officer, elected officer, judicial officer or firefighter, while the person was engaged in the course of the performance of the person's duties or because of them
3. The defendant killed a person kidnapped or held as a hostage by him or by anyone associated with him
4. The defendant has been a party to an agreement to kill another person in furtherance of which a person has been intentionally killed
5. It was committed while lying in wait, from ambush, or by use of an explosive or incendiary device or a chemical, biological, or radiological weapon.
6. The defendant committed a class 1, 2, or 3 felony and, in the course of or in furtherance of such or immediate flight therefrom, the defendant intentionally caused the death of a person other than one of the participants
7. The defendant committed a class 1, 2, or 3 felony and, in the course of or in furtherance of such or immediate flight therefrom, the defendant intentionally caused the death of a person other than one of the participants

Capital punishment in Colorado - Wikipedia

Hmm you may be right as I’m not as familiar with these documents! I was mainly looking at the actual dates (On or around Nov 22) that were mentioned for the alleged murder. It says the same things under COUNT 1 so I should have referred to that to minimize confusion. Again, maybe I’m reading these wrong and if so I apologize!

 

[Artis]

With respect to the R's, what they revealed was merely hearsay. How good is their recollection of what M told them? In their interview as well as M's, the journalism sucks, royally. Our little exercise this morning proved that. WS members would make much better journalists! It's everything that is purposely omitted that concerns me. Where has all the talent gone??

Oh, girl, I could go on and on about why real journalists are so rare but it would be too off topic. The real ones, investigative journalists who report the truth, have been nearly drummed out of the profession. You can find them on the internet where the owners of big media can't control them. I'm aware of some who cover politics but I don't know about violent crime. I know this much, while I don't like Nancy Grace, I'd love to see her take apart M in an interview.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hmm you may be right as I’m not as familiar with these documents! I was mainly looking at the actual dates (On or around Nov 22) that were mentioned for the alleged murder. It says the same things under COUNT 1 so I should have referred to that to minimize confusion. Again, maybe I’m reading these wrong and if so I apologize!

Oh no you may very well be correct. I'm traveling on business in another time zone right now, so I am probably deliriously posting.

Ya'll please correct me if I am misremembering haha or WRONG.

ETA: Sorry, I was wrong. They were worded alike!

 

[Artis]

The first press conference indicated that the text to Doss was sent from Kelsey’s phone on Nov 25th stating she would not be in to work that week.

City of Woodland Park

Thanks! That answers that question.

 

[SandyQLS]

IMO it wouldn't make sense for KK to tell MS on Nov 26 that Kelsey was missing. That was one day after the text were sent to make it look like she was away voluntarily. If KK told MS about her involvement, then it wouldn't make sense for MS to tell other people anything about it. All they had to do is wait. It is more likely that the Rs were notified on Dec 3, when there was probably aready a FB page set-up and the police made an appeal for information.

"...The R's say the two are as close as sisters, but MS was not involved in Kelsey’s presumed death.

“She didn’t go with KK anywhere to Colorado or anything,” Joe said. “She just listened to her friend.”..."

From Part 2: Part Two: Twin Falls couple discusses tough call to FBI

"...The Rockstahl’s say, on Krystal’s last trip to Colorado, Michelle begged her best friend not to go.

“Because she was worried about Krystal,” Patty said. “She was very concerned that she was going to meet someone that had asked her to murder someone.” ..."

From Part 3:
Part 3: Twin Falls couple discusses tough call to FBI

So her best friend, like a sister, is about to go toward danger, and MS begged her not to go 800 miles. I would be of the opinion that MS couldn't wait to contact KK ASAP at the end of the holiday weekend to 'make sure KK was alright and home safe again' and that KK couldn't wait to contact her 'trusted best friend' after her 'exciting long trip'. IMO KK & MS were in contact on Nov 25.

I'm working it to stay within TOS.

 

[Artis]

I decided to put my defense hat on for just a brief fleeting moment (lol) and if I was PF's lawyer and based on what we know right now, it sure looks like PF could sure try to turn the tables on KK.

My discussion with PF would go something like this:

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK took KB's phone and drove to near her home in Idaho and got rid of it there?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK texted KB's work on KB's phone and gave a fake excuse why KB was not showing up for work?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me that KK even texted you from KB's phone and gave you a fake excuse that KB was going away for awhile?"

PF: Yes

Laywer: "So you are telling me that KK is claiming you solicited her 3 different times to kill KB but KK is the only one saying that happened, and the only discussions you ever had with KK about KB were done verbally?"

PF: Yes

Laywer "So you are telling me that the day LE went to KB's house before your arrest and they knew exactly where to look for cleaned up blood evidence was because KK told LE where to go look?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that the day you went to the dump with the 2 other men you never even got out of the car and they only dumped regular trash?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that KK has had an obsessive thing for you since high school?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "Ok....just stay here and sit tight (like he can go anywhere anyway-LOL) and keep doing what you are doing by staying quiet and I will take care of this."

And, if I'm PF, and those solicitation conversations were verbal, I'm gonna tell my lawyer it was she who solicited me and I told he she was crazy to even suggest such a thing. I never even knew KK was in Colorado until this all broke.

 

[susiQ]

Oh, girl, I could go on and on about why real journalists are so rare but it would be too off topic. The real ones, investigative journalists who report the truth, have been nearly drummed out of the profession. You can find them on the internet where the owners of big media can't control them. I'm aware of some who cover politics but I don't know about violent crime. I know this much, while I don't like Nancy Grace, I'd love to see her take apart M in an interview.

And, oh boy, I know of what you speak
Anyway, I'm not a big fan of NG either but I'd like to see her interview MS! She wouldn't get away with, "I can't speak to that," or "I don't want to talk about that." And while NG is at it, she can dismantle KK too!

 

[jewelsmac]

I can't cut her that kind of slack. First she tells the Rs that Kelsey is missing - and it's possible that KK lied and told her that - but then she finds out that KK really knew Kelsey was murdered AND had her phone and she still gets out there and does damage control, making excuses for her. That's where the line gets crossed from being a hapless moron to becoming a complicit enabler of someone involved in - to whatever degree - a murder.

Hapless moron is my new favorite phrase and should be added to the Websleuths terms stat

 

[Hatch]

When did they room together?

I am not sure we were given the date, let me have a minute to link the info here, I believe it was a caption with their picture.

 

[Mimi in London]

I want to know exactly what the Doss Aviation text says and did Kelsey usually text them or speak to them?

Hopefully we will see this analysed, right down to every spelling and punctuation mark.

 

[Hatch]

I am not sure we were given the date, let me have a minute to link the info here, I believe it was a caption with their picture.

@Dave F. I found the pic that was taken when they were rooming together but not the audio link. It was from DMO
Maybe @PommyMommy can easily find it.

 

[Artis]

MS age 47 and KK 32 is quiet a bit of a age span for BFF's

True but I've had a very close friend who's 12 years younger than I am. If you gel, you gel, you know?