Found Safe TN - SLP, 14, Madisonville, Monroe County, 13 Jan 2019 #5 *ARRESTS*

[ilovechili]

I would lock it down because I would not want the children's photos out in the media - I don't understand why people make everything public in the first place. JMO.

If you check the property records you will find a lot of property owned by that name in different counties in TN. If they are related, it's pretty extensive. Which begs the question, did this child have no family member she could trust to turn to regarding the 12 years of abuse? Or did she, and once isolated feared even worse/more/repeating (4 bedroom house purchased 12/19/18 to facilitate the rapist) and did turn to someone as alleged by BR, and was not believed?

Tennessee Property Data Home Page

I too in various types of searches found there to be many people with this last name... Do we have anyone from either area of where they lived on this thread? I wonder if there are a number of family members as you say, whether this could have added to her need or feeling that she needed to get out of the area and get the feds involved... One would think someone would have helped but this is his family, not hers so to speak so maybe she just felt they were apt to believe him and not her...?

 

[jellybean96]

And someone locked RP’s Facebook down for him (around the same time CP locked hers down) after he was in custody.

I wonder if his lawyer did it for him, to control what the media found? I know of a friend who was arrested in a high profile crime and his attorney got his FB password and wiped it clean.

 

[ilovechili]

He says he helped her reach out to the FBI. Has this been confirmed?
Even so, he drove all the way to MO to send the package to the MO FBI. (if true)
He was still trying very hard to make sure she wasn't found....at least not in Wisconsin where he lived with his mother and was keeping SP.

I do not disagree with this at all. He or both of them did not want to be found until it was seen that *dad* was arrested and/or for other reasons as well. I do believe someone found a statement that was highlighted a few pages back looking like it confirmed the FBI received the package. I also believe it was said the 6 page letter was sealed or it was requested it be which would also indicate receipt.

In no way do my remarks mean all of BR's intentions were pure, I am still trying to square his actions is all.

 

[ilovechili]

And then this 31 year old adult raped a 14 year old child. That's what did him in for me. This, after watching RP rape her in a video. That BR effectively forced her to video. Three strikes, he's outta there! (And we don't have any remaining strikes accounted for, yet...)

I do not disagree--if he did that, he deserves to pay the piper.

 

[ilovechili]

Relative to SP realization that she had to "rescue herself," I think she found herself abducted by BR for 2 weeks-- hidden in his trunk, and inside his closet, until she finally gave him an ultimatum like "I thought you were going to help me and instead you've only inserted yourself in place of RP!"

Reportedly - not until 2 weeks after being in WI did SP draft a letter for the FBI. I'm sure it was part of the manipulation, and excuse for 2 week delay, that BR insisted they had to deliver the FBI package to St Louis for mailing. I think SP was probably about ready to run away from BR until he took her to another State to mail the package to FBI.

MOO

If this is true, then BR is not the most evil perp. I cannot see JC saying to JP you help me or I am going to run away, Lord knows what his reaction would be. What I mean is how can SP give an ultimatum to someone intent on keeping her and harming her who is bigger than she and older than she? He could respond with gagging her, tying her and holding her. Or worse. I see the point but I just do not see where she would have had any power over him with any ultimatum if he wanted it otherwise... jmo though..

 

[jellybean96]

It could have even been "if you are nice to me I will mail the package tomorrow" for 2 weeks. I hope not.

I have to wonder if he used sex as a bribe? 'You let me have my way with you and I will help you mail the package' kind of thing.

 

[kkdj]

From what I've read so far it doesn't appear that BR tied SP up or caged her in or anything. He went to work, leaving her alone in the home hiding from his mother. I think if she wanted to get away she could have. So, I think she believed he cared for her and wasn't going to harm her. Even tho I think his main goal was that of a pedophile looking for gratification, I don't think that's what she was understanding. Heck ....she might have thought he was a 21 year old in love with her! I strongly suspect she had no idea he was 31 years old.

 

[ilovechili]

I think that's a firm no. I've actually never heard of a child returned to the home when they actually admit to the abuse they've endured. Unless they later recant.

It's far easier to remove a child and keep them in the foster care system than it is to prosecute someone and yet people are prosecuted for sex crimes daily based on the word of a child.

I am glad that is your experience and you know of no such thing. I know otherwise. I have knowledge of times it has happened. I know of a case I will not sicken everyone with the details of that would enrage to no end everyone on here. I am no attorney but I have worked around such files and details and have seen it occur and the inevitable outcome when the right thing does not happen... Suffice it to say it involved brothers and the father and she was continually sent back there. And that is not even the worst of it... Although ranking what is the worst in a situation like that is difficult.

Even when it does not occur, they often bond out. While often under conditions to NOT have contact, that happens as well. Or they try to get to the mother who is often already weak to them and controlled by them. This is probably where some recanting comes from, fear by a child when they see the perpetrator does not go right to prison but goes to a hearing and then is out and about. It is right up there with restraining orders imo at least. They do not one bit of good until someone is actually hurt it seems like. Just my opinion but based on things I have witnessed. That being said, I am sure there are cases (I hope anyhow) where the child is protected as you have seen.

I am happy to hear it if what you say is true and would hope it rarely happens, I wish that is what I have seen without fail but it is not. To me, her behavior is she was not believed by someone whether her mom, an aunt, a teacher, LE or even all or a mixture of these. She got out and made sure it was far away and went above and beyond to involve what most feel is the best LE agency in the world, the FBI. Why?

 

[ilovechili]

It happened to my friend when we were kids. I still don’t understand it.

I mentioned too, in another post that I have seen it happen too. Where children are sent right back into the lion's den. It does happen. Sadly.

 

[ilovechili]

There was evidence of rape during SLP's evaluation at the hospital. A big reason BR was denied bond. And also the fact that he covered up his tracks so well.

"In court Tuesday, assistant U.S. attorney Julie Pfluger said this proves what the charges allege: Rogers asked the girl to make a video, and the video was transported across state lines.

Pfluger also said she was present for a sexual assault exam in Madison, where the nurse said there was recent sexual activity and it was "not possible these are from the father."

At least one time that they could document in the hospital.

Madison man heads to trial for production of child *advertiser censored* in missing Tennessee girl case

I am aware of this and if so, he deserves to face the consequences. I would like to know more, not explicit details of course (never), but regarding what they know and how they can be sure when and while with him. Again, if so, he deserves the consequences. No argument there whatsoever.

And daddy deserves to be charged with ten plus years of assaults.

And one other person I would like to hear they are seriously investigating who quite possibly should be charged.

And I hope to he** there is no one else who has hurt her.

I pray she can overcome this. She has never from an early age had a decent example of a man from what I can see. Whatever bio dad's reasons and how it came about, he was not there for her. That is not a knock, just a fact. Stepdad we know what he was... From her earliest years she has dealt with this...

 

[kkdj]

I have to wonder if he used sex as a bribe? 'You let me have my way with you and I will help you mail the package' kind of thing.

I get more the vibe that she believed they were in a relationship. He knew for a fact tho that he is a pedophile and was breaking the law big time and in several ways.

 

[gitana1]

I mentioned too, in another post that I have seen it happen too. Where children are sent right back into the lion's den. It does happen. Sadly.

Not 14 year old willing to talk. I've never seen it. And unless you see the actual court files of a case you won't know what's going on in a case of a child at any age.

For example, there's a case in my state where a small child was supposedly taken by her mother and sent to live with her sexual abuser father in a foreign country despite clear signs of sexual abuse by him.

But I know the judge in the case. I've been before him multiple times and he's not close to insane. I also know minor's counsel who is similarly rational and just. Suffice it to say the real story is mother is insane, appears to have munchausen's syndrome by proxy and multiple custody investigation/evaluations found as much.

However, the attorneys and judge cannot discuss those specifics despite bad press against the judge because those evaluations are totally confidential.

So mom has all these friends and advocates running around flipping out that her terribly abused baby was ripped from her arms and forced to live with her child molester father in another country.

She's convincing. And none of the people supporting her know the truth.

 

[human]

Not 14 year old willing to talk. I've never seen it. And unless you see the actual court files of a case you won't know what's going on in a case of a child at any age.

For example, there's a case in my state where a small child was supposedly taken by her mother and sent to live with her sexual abuser father in a foreign country despite clear signs of sexual abuse by him.

But I know the judge in the case. I've been before him multiple times and he's not close to insane. I also know minor's counsel who is similarly rational and just. Suffice it to say the real story is mother is insane, appears to have munchausen's syndrome by proxy and multiple custody investigation/evaluations found as much.

However, the attorneys and judge cannot discuss those specifics despite bad press against the judge because those evaluations are totally confidential.

So mom has all these friends and advocates running around flipping out that her terribly abused baby was ripped from her arms and forced to live with her child molester father in another country.

She's convincing. And none of the people supporting her know the truth.

I have seen that so often before. People saying that their children were falsely removed. Those of us who know the truth cannot speak.

Removing a child takes many steps. Child Protection cannot remive a child. Only a judge can order it.

 

[ilovechili]

Whoa. Thought provoking about the "I won't force myself on you anymore if you're with someone else." Smart thought. She may have thought being with an unrelated adult male in a "relationship" was her way out.

I mean it is true that child victims of abuse can learn skewed coping mechanisms. Like how to use their bodies to survive.

And yeah, it's all back to degrees of evil again. I used to be a very black and white thinker when I was young. But over time I learned it's never that clear. There's almost always shades of gray.

IMO BR was a manipulative predator but quite likely a conflicted one. I actually don't think he has ever done anything this extreme before.

I get the sense that RP was unrepentant and much more evil. What he did to his own a child and for so many years.

I so agree with every word here. You said what I keep trying to but do not have the words to make quite clear in the way that I want to. It is a matter of degrees.

Your black and white comment hits home. When younger (probably like many of us), I felt right was right and wrong was wrong, black and white, no middle ground. I learned there is "gray" just as you put it is what I have always said to people.

My remark about her finding someone and his remark of he would not force himself on her if she found someone else and left with him, etc., etc. is I feel a part of what more context there may be...? Did she attempt to make such a statement to him, that she had found someone... Not sure. But it fits with them saying she had probably run away and with her actually having left with someone. Or it fits with her finding someone because *dad* told her his forceful abuse of her would stop if she did... When she heard that, I can see her thinking this is my way out...

In no way am I putting anything on her. As you said, they learn skewed ways to cope and in no way has she ever had a decent example of a man from her formative years. It sickens me what predators do to the vulnerable. I do feel BR was her out. I also do not find it odd she may have tended towards someone older just based on her life... I am not saying she initiated contact, I do not think we know how it came about, but if she did, I do not find it odd at all on her part and based on my previous comments above.

It does not excuse his actions if he had sexual contact but I do think she may have been looking for a "relationship" to get out of the "one" she was in as her *dad* said he would leave her alone if that occurred...

To me he is not black as *dad* is who deserves to never see any freedom again. BR is more "gray" as you put it. Does he deserve consequences? Yes if he did as was brought up at the hearing. Does he deserve what *dad* does? I just do not think so at this point.

More facts may change my mind.

You worded things far better than I but you understood what I meant perfectly.

 

[ilovechili]

Oh he'll be out of jail for good behavior by the time she graduates either high school or college. That's the pitiful part of it all. Once they get out, victims have to look over their shoulders again.

I hope to he** they add more charges. This is very likely what you say here and it is what bothers me greatly. There is VIDEO evidence. Throw away the key. Maybe our laws need reforming...

 

[ilovechili]

I'm think of what @ilovechili said though. And it makes me think. You know this kid survived. She got out. And I wonder if there was some decision-making, some agency on her part, involved in that.

Is it possible she made the decision that to allow this man to abuse her was a way out of a lifetime of incest and rape by her father?

Certainly he was manipulative and predatory. And he is 31 and she's 14. But she survived this and I've found that the kids who do tend to have something very strong and often canny about them. Sometimes it's just their ability to remain unthreateningly passive and complaint. Sometimes it's their resilience, patience and determination. Other times it's a quick-witted ability to use what they can and affect their abusers.

Like the Katie Beers case I linked. She was 9 and discussed how she manipulated her captor.

I want to hope this kid wasn't just along for the ride and drove the bus to some degree herself. Out of the frying pan but only somewhat burnt by the fire and able to jump right out?

Thank you and I hope I am right. I see plenty of hints she did have some real smarts about her and probably a knowledge of people and what rotten things they can do that is cannier than some of us. I think these children learn to cope with their abuser, learn to manipulate them to a point (necessarily, that is not a slam), sometimes in the hopes of making things not as bad as things could get and probably sometimes did get. I think she perhaps knew she was leaving one situation for another that may not be ideal but it was her first step out. I think she may have been instrumental in getting him to take her to mail her evidence and to keep her hidden until dad was behind bars.

That in no way EXCUSES his taking advantage of her. It is just a possible scenario that this girl got herself out and perhaps to a point knew what the risks were, was willing to take them and handle them. As you put it so well, that she had some agency and helped save herself to a point.

Katie Beers is an excellent example. And she was a 9 year old and learned to handle her captor.

I keep saying I think SP picked the least evil perhaps of her options which were likely few is another way to put it. I think she may have had a better sense of what BR was than we do yet today. I think she ranked him as less dangerous than RP... Or possibly even saw him as a bf which would not be unusual either since she had no norms to go by in her life from what we know. And again, *dad* told her if she found and left with someone else he would leave her alone. That could have almost been the best thing she had ever heard in her lifetime sadly.

Again, it does not excuse BR and any actions he may have taken that he should be held accountable for.

I could be entirely wrong though. It would not be the first time, that is for sure

 

[ilovechili]

From what I've read so far it doesn't appear that BR tied SP up or caged her in or anything. He went to work, leaving her alone in the home hiding from his mother. I think if she wanted to get away she could have. So, I think she believed he cared for her and wasn't going to harm her. Even tho I think his main goal was that of a pedophile looking for gratification, I don't think that's what she was understanding. Heck ....she might have thought he was a 21 year old in love with her! I strongly suspect she had no idea he was 31 years old.

Great points. It is close to what I think. I think she did not want to be found and was not kept from leaving but that he also had his own expectations but that she did not see it quite that way or find it to be unusual or even bad. Sadly, she may have even expected that based on her knowledge of "men". Just speculation.

 

[ilovechili]

Not 14 year old willing to talk. I've never seen it. And unless you see the actual court files of a case you won't know what's going on in a case of a child at any age.

For example, there's a case in my state where a small child was supposedly taken by her mother and sent to live with her sexual abuser father in a foreign country despite clear signs of sexual abuse by him.

But I know the judge in the case. I've been before him multiple times and he's not close to insane. I also know minor's counsel who is similarly rational and just. Suffice it to say the real story is mother is insane, appears to have munchausen's syndrome by proxy and multiple custody investigation/evaluations found as much.

However, the attorneys and judge cannot discuss those specifics despite bad press against the judge because those evaluations are totally confidential.

So mom has all these friends and advocates running around flipping out that her terribly abused baby was ripped from her arms and forced to live with her child molester father in another country.

She's convincing. And none of the people supporting her know the truth.

I understand your point. And I believe or hope what you see is the norm. What I saw and commented about with a girl, her father and brothers was not just from one side. It was court information and evaluations. It was confidential and I was in a position to see it. I would never say where, who or when. I was sickened to death. She was not believed. She was returned over and over and over. The truth finally came out.

It does happen. Not arguing with you, I think you know that. However, there are screw ups in any profession or system. There are stellar people, judges, etc. There are also those that are not. And that is just one example.

Do you not wonder if SP tried to get help prior to this? I sure do. And not necessarily just from mom. I feel as stated she went so far above and beyond to get far away and involve the feds. That is one key reason I wonder. The next one would be the move across state lines, isolation and the "pretense" or reality of home schooling only her. Was there a catalyst... And if they are truly protected and the system works then it should work across state lines... Of course this is all speculation.

I am happy to hear from you that you see cases handled correctly and the child is not returned. I am just saying it does happen and has happened.

 

[Rosiebones]

I remember reading that it was reported ( I think it was SP telling BDR) that, in addition to killing and skinning her dog, RP pointed a gun at someone who came to the door.
What would have been the reason? If it was family (his or CP's) or a person responding to a referral or even a rumor about what had been going on, how come there was no follow-up? What other reason could there be for him to come on in so intimidating a fashion? It seems that whoever it was didn't follow through with LE, why not? Were they so afraid of what he would do? To me, it really drives home the point that unless RP was locked up somewhere, that family was not safe in any way. IMO

 

[ilovechili]

Not 14 year old willing to talk. I've never seen it. And unless you see the actual court files of a case you won't know what's going on in a case of a child at any age.

For example, there's a case in my state where a small child was supposedly taken by her mother and sent to live with her sexual abuser father in a foreign country despite clear signs of sexual abuse by him.

But I know the judge in the case. I've been before him multiple times and he's not close to insane. I also know minor's counsel who is similarly rational and just. Suffice it to say the real story is mother is insane, appears to have munchausen's syndrome by proxy and multiple custody investigation/evaluations found as much.

However, the attorneys and judge cannot discuss those specifics despite bad press against the judge because those evaluations are totally confidential.

So mom has all these friends and advocates running around flipping out that her terribly abused baby was ripped from her arms and forced to live with her child molester father in another country.

She's convincing. And none of the people supporting her know the truth.

While I responded to this post, Gitana, I did not respond to this example. It is quite sad and sounds like it evolved from a custody case? Do you mean she was taken from her mother though correct? It says "by" and I just want to clarify as that makes it sound like she sent the child to the dad and that is the way I took it on my first and second read of it. In each and every case, it is true that we know few of the facts or maybe even the deciding factors.

I worked for a time with someone who would take a GAL role in such cases. She received the one I mentioned after other failures and continued abuse. I also later worked in another job where incest/molestation was investigated at times (among other things) by them on an independent/contracted basis. I do not envy anyone who works around these things because it is heartbreaking and I would think would cause a pretty quick burn out, I found I could hardly face seeing another file. We find reading things on this site hard to handle, reading the details is even harder. As stated, I am no attorney but I have worked around and seen such things and excruciating details.

A question, I understand the minor is protected by name and news most likely but can't the mother with Munchausen be prosecuted wherein some facts would be known to the public via the news, even if not all facts? Meaning if she had Munchausen, did she sicken her own child/children? Also was this an only child?

I hope the successes are more than the occasional failure of the system. I also appreciate hearing straight up direct facts and examples from you. While the subject matter on this forum is not always pleasant (by necessity), I learn something new it seems like in each case.