CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

I don't think he wanted full custody so much as he wanted not to drive over to her house and pick up K every morning so she could go to work. It was inconvenient for him. MOO

I think he initially wanted control over both Kelsey and the baby. When he realized that Kelsey was independent and could not be controlled, he made steps to ensure he would have full custody of their child. Once he knew she was going to be an obstacle, he decided to get rid of her.
I believe there was a lot more to it than just not wanting to drive to her house every day. Imo

 

[marchioness96]

My guess is he's repeating what he heard from PF's lying lips. I can see it starting out as a way for PF to justify bringing Baby K along on his donkey job in Cripple Creek and to get free child care while he worked. IIRC, Cline's wife watched baby K while PF and CC went out to tend the donkeys. The first time he brought Baby K to Cline's wife to watch, PF probably lied and said KB was not reliable and had stuck him with the baby at the last minute. That way PF gets sympathy and free childcare. The second or third time PF brought baby K along he could have lied again and said he had full custody now since, since KB was always running off and had to go to drug rehab (LIAR!)


MOO.

Bingo. Great thinking!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I would think the battery would be dead by the 25th yet it pinged in ID, so I guess not. I suppose we can loosely assume it was in CO til the 24th. Pf had it? Then kk 'moved it'on the 24th/25th...

Very quite frequently, my friends and family use each other chargers. They can be used with other phones. An Android will charge an Android, an apple will charge an apple. If somebody took the phone to knowingly send texts in the future (being complicit after a murder), I would assume they had a charger to keep the phone charged...unless.....

Did she have the type of phone that Kelsey had? Did she buy a new charger? Did she take Kelsey charger?

I agree with you, with roaming needs of battery, the phone would have probably not been working unless she charged it, or the phone was turned off during her travels and then turn back on just to send the text before ...?

It's my understanding that phone records can show when a phone was turned off, and when it was turned on. They are very specific pings to the phone companies when such is done. Moo from previous cases I have followed.

I think there are others here that are knowledgeable and such.

ETA.. or he charged it up before she took it?

 

[Aydrianna523]

PF told CB that he'd "had enough and wasn't going to deal with things any more" according to the complaint. That says a lot, IMHO.

IMHO, PF didn't want to compromise, didn't want the inconvenience of picking up and dropping off little K, didn't want to get married, didn't want to move off the ranchette, wanted his freedom, and wanted his side women. His theme song is "My Way". Is any of that a motive for murder? To rational-thinking people, no. To PF, yes, it was. I also sense that he was jealous and possessive. Jealous because KB had her dream job. Possessive because he seemed to have a problem with the possibility that she occasionally had dinner with her co-workers instead of rushing straight home, if that was even true. This is what the complaint, citing PF own words, tells me. MOO

Well put! He seemed to be saying he's not going to put up with KB's criticizing*. Sometimes in a case like that a gal ends up being the guy's conscience. The (hypothetical) guy will say things like it being ok to get ahead by lying about others, or they might have unjustified anger towards someone. BUT if you mention that it's wrong to lie or for unjustified anger, they'll take it as criticism. You can't win because you can't really agree with them, and it's next to impossible to ignore all the junk they have to say either.
*It's certainly also odd for pf to say that (to cb) since he had just killed her daughter!!

 

[marchioness96]

Or maybe he met up with KK at Cracker Barrel? I think he was definitely at Cracker Barrel.

I think he must have been there at some point too. Would he really be so clueless as to lie about something so easily checked? Is it possible he *did* go to Cracker Barrel with Kelsey that day and killed her later? But then, where was baby K?

 

[InvSmith]

So, basically the Amendment is saying PF has lied about a lot of facts especially regarding the child. I think two points that stand out are "he didn't like to be told what to do" and to his perception be "put down infront of a one year old" (paraphrasing). OK, this is 1) exceedingly childlike and 2) projecting adult like thinking on a child. I think this is very telling psychologically. It shows under developed maturity, imo, and poor problem-solving which would be obvious.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think he must have been there at some point too. Would he really be so clueless as to lie about something so easily checked? Is it possible he *did* go to Cracker Barrel with Kelsey that day and killed her later? But then, where was baby K?

A possibility for sure. We don't know what time TG day this might have happened other than after what the video shows of KB leaving Safeway around 12:30.

I can see KB being rational and reasonable to think perhaps her, PF and baby K could go and get some TG lunch or dinner even though there were issues in the relationship. Didn't she mention that to her mom CB earlier in the day when they talked by phone?

 

[MassGuy]

So, basically the Amendment is saying PF has lied about a lot of facts especially regarding the child. I think two points that stand out are "he didn't like to be told what to do" and to his perception be "put down infront of a one year old" (paraphrasing). OK, this is 1) exceedingly childlike and 2) projecting adult like thinking on a child. I think this is very telling psychologically. It shows under developed maturity, imo, and poor problem-solving which would be obvious.

I had the exact same takeaway.

This is a guy who doesn’t like authority, and almost certainly, doesn’t like a woman doing anything that he perceives as a put down.

It’s pretty clear that Kelsey was a strong, independent woman, and that certainly would rub him the wrong way.

He is a man-child whose motto appears to be “my way or the highway.”

How dare you damage my perfectly crafted facade!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Well put! He seemed to be saying he's not going to put up with KB's criticizing*. Sometimes in a case like that a gal ends up being the guy's conscience. The (hypothetical) guy will say things like it being ok to get ahead by lying about others, or they might have unjustified anger towards someone. BUT if you mention that it's wrong to lie or for unjustified anger, they'll take it as criticism. You can't win because you can't really agree with them, and it's next to impossible to ignore all the junk they have to say either.
*It's certainly also odd for pf to say that (to cb) since he had just killed her daughter!!

Which reminds me, I thought it was odd that he was upset because she talked badly about him and criticize him in front of an 18-month year-old. He didn't use the word screaming, or upsetting the baby, he was just upset that he was criticized in front of a toddler.

Oh my gosh, he is so sensitive to the needs of the child...

..eyeroll...

Who is now without a mother, or a father.

But is now within the arms and loving family of her parents.

ETA added eyeroll

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think he must have been there at some point too. Would he really be so clueless as to lie about something so easily checked? Is it possible he *did* go to Cracker Barrel with Kelsey that day and killed her later? But then, where was baby K?

From the timing that we have gleaned now from the most recent documents, it appears that her mother was onto him from the very beginning.

If she shared that with police, I'm sure that the interviews of HIS mother and family would try to nail all this stuff down really early. Before his mother and family realized that he was the target.

 

[marchioness96]

A possibility for sure. We don't know what time TG day this might have happened other than after what the video shows of KB leaving Safeway around 12:30.

I can see KB being rational and reasonable to think perhaps her, PF and baby K could go and get some TG lunch or dinner even though there were issues in the relationship. Didn't she mention that to her mom CB earlier in the day when they talked by phone?

Yes, early on CB said KB had TG day plans. I just keep thinking that since we don't know when on the 22nd she was killed (assuming we can accept she was more than likely killed that day), maybe he's messed up enough that he thought he'd disarm her and take her out. Maybe it's another indication of his controlling nature. I guess it's possible he killed her afterwards. We don't know what time he claims to have been at Cracker Barrel, but I'm sure that will come out.

 

[InvSmith]

Well put! He seemed to be saying he's not going to put up with KB's criticizing*. Sometimes in a case like that a gal ends up being the guy's conscience. The (hypothetical) guy will say things like it being ok to get ahead by lying about others, or they might have unjustified anger towards someone. BUT if you mention that it's wrong to lie or for unjustified anger, they'll take it as criticism. You can't win because you can't really agree with them, and it's next to impossible to ignore all the junk they have to say either.
*It's certainly also odd for pf to say that (to cb) since he had just killed her daughter!!

What is completely magnificent (in the worst way) is CB was able to get these exact statements (and I hope they are recorded) that forensically give so much insight into this liar's thinking. It is as though he and Scott Peterson are twins. I hope an expert on statement analysis is used. I still think the core issue is his lack of control over KB. I am glad the child survived.

 

[indicolite22]

RSBM
For PF, the thought of Kelsey telling people she dumped him (and maybe getting herself a better boyfriend) was nearly the last straw.

The thought of her taking the baby away filled him with the ultimate rage.

I speculate.

His own crowd already thought they were just co-parenting, so her dumping him would maybe not even get out to them or made a difference in their eyes. I can't decide if she was duped by him into staying with him or they were having a rocky relationship but somehow still kept at it.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Yes, early on CB said KB had TG day plans. I just keep thinking that since we don't know when on the 22nd she was killed (assuming we can accept she was more than likely killed that day), maybe he's messed up enough that he thought he'd disarm her and take her out. Maybe it's another indication of his controlling nature. I guess it's possible he killed her afterwards. We don't know what time he claims to have been at Cracker Barrel, but I'm sure that will come out.

I think it might be very key that in the initial stages, he had no idea that she told her mother that she was doing a recipe for Thanksgiving dinner perhaps? Only she and the police right now know when the recipe was for.

And then when he was interviewed, he had no idea that her mother knew that they were supposed to be perhaps eating dinner at her house, and he said that they went to Cracker Barrel?

If you are talking to your mother about having somebody over for Thanksgiving dinner, and then you learned later that he said they went to Cracker Barrel after your daughter asked you for a recipe and she was going to the store

oh, you would know he was definitely guilty. M o o

 

[Dave F.]

Very quite frequently, my friends and family use each other chargers. They can be used with other phones. An Android will charge an Android, an apple will charge an apple. If somebody took the phone to knowingly send texts in the future (being complicit after a murder), I would assume they had a charger to keep the phone charged...unless.....

Did she have the type of phone that Kelsey had? Did she buy a new charger? Did she take Kelsey charger?

I agree with you, with roaming needs of battery, the phone would have probably not been working unless she charged it, or the phone was turned off during her travels and then turn back on just to send the text before ...?

It's my understanding that phone records can show when a phone was turned off, and when it was turned on. They are very specific pings to the phone companies when such is done. Moo from previous cases I have followed.

I think there are others here that are knowledgeable and such.

ETA.. or he charged it up before she took it?

The length of time that a cell phone battery retains usable charge varies tremendously by how many apps are loaded and how much memory is used with photos, games etc.
With that said, southern Idaho is very well covered by Verizon towers and mini cells. It could nolt have been transported while "on" through to the Gooding coverage area without pinging several times off different towers. In order to ping only off the Gooding tower, which has several areas of minimal coverage with areas of decent coverage all being 5G LTE, KB's phone had to have been transported off and turned on at 5:12 pm on November 25, 2018. There is a one minute delay before a ping can commence. IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

The amended complaint adds the recent testimony by Krystal Kenney or Krystal Lee. Kenney testified under oath on Feb. 8 that Frazee admitted to Kenney that he had murdered Kelsey on or about Nov. 22.

Wrongful death lawsuit against Patrick Frazee reveals possible motive

 

[Elley Mae]

The length of time that a cell phone battery retains usable charge varies tremendously by how many apps are loaded and how much memory is used with photos, games etc.
With that said, southern Idaho is very well covered by Verizon towers and mini cells. It could nolt have been transported while "on" through to the Gooding coverage area without pinging several times off different towers. In order to ping only off the Gooding tower, which has several areas of minimal coverage with areas of decent coverage all being 5G LTE, KB's phone had to have been transported off and turned on at 5:12 pm on November 25, 2018. There is a one minute delay before a ping can commence. IMO

Also this.

On Dec. 2, 2018, the filing states that Cheryl-Lee Berreth called Frazee to ask him if everything was “okay.” Frazee responded “here’s the story…,” then proceeding to lie repeatedly about his breakup with Berreth, their custody status, future plans for November 25, and frustrations they were having in their relationship. Following that call, Cheryl-Lee Berreth called the Woodland Park Police and asked for officers to check on Berreth at her home. Officers then reported back that her vehicles were at the house, but no one was answering the door. At that point, Cheryl-Lee Berreth asked Frazee to print a copy of Berreth’s phone records.

New Court Documents Reveal Possible Motive In Kelsey Berreth Death

The next day, Frazee called Cheryl-Lee Berreth and said he couldn’t access her phone records because he “didn’t know the answers to the access questions,” and that he thought Berreth may have opened her own phone plan, and changed her number. Frazee also told Cheryl-Lee “I love your daughter,” and that Woodland Park was a safe place and they “didn’t need to worry about foul play.”

....

 

[tmar]

Not to be the petty jerk in this crowd, but I’m just hoping it’s whatever color makes him the least comfortable

Because PF thinks he is so special, pink stripes to match his cuff links would be a great fit.

 

[GHgal]

I think they already have enough to prove the accusations they have already levied.

His sister repeated some of those same lies on here, but those posts are gone now.

So it was determined that she was, in fact, that one sluether, (I cannot recall her sluether name) from way back in the first few threads??? How did I miss that???

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I am wondering if it would be helpful for the Berreths if our awesome sleuthers help to gather evidence by scouring social media in search of posts from PFs sister and/or PFs "friends" where disparaging remarks were made about KB? The more documents they have the better. We could probably track down and document (screen shots) more info than the family's attorney. We could start a new thread for this purpose where we could upload our screen shots and then hand it off to the Berreths. What are your thoughts, suggestions, pros/cons?

Imho, that is against terms of service here. Moo