OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

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Loomis124 said:
I believe you may be referring to Count 16 of the 4 Ws indictments (linked above) which reads as follows (it will not allow me to copy and paste, but please feel free to compare):

[Defendant's name], on or about April 3, 2016, at the County of Pike, and in the State of Ohio, did unlawfully, knowing that an official proceeding or investigation was in progress, or was about to be or likely to be instituted, MAKE, PRESENT, *OR* (emphasis mine) USE any record, document, or thing, to wit: custody documents, k owing it to be false and with purpose to mislead a public official who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation, ow with purpose to corrupt the outcome of any such proceeding or investigation, in violation of Section 2921.12(A)(2)/2921.12(B) of the Ohio Revised Code.
TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - A FELONY OF THE THIRD DEGREE.

My opinion: ...make, present, or use....with purpose to...mislead a public official who is or may be...
with purpose to corrupt the outcome...."

"...make" is consistent with on or about April 3, 2016.

"...with purpose to mislead..." is not a direct act

"...a public official..." - very broad term, perhaps a judge? Again, it doesn't matter because it doesn't cite an official was mislead, but only that that was the purpose of the custody documents...

I am not trying to argue with anyone. Only trying to discuss facts and not read things that just aren't there.

I respect each and every poster and your views. Thank you all posters for considering my views and opinions. Especially thank you to the Moderators of this forum who give us this opportunity.
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Thank you for posting this. I was just about to go back and start wading through pages of documents!
Excellent analysis.
 
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Betty P said:
The "Tampering With Evidence" (Count 17) charges only apply from dates in 2016, when the planning began for the murders.

The "Unauthorized Use of Property" (Count 19) and "Interception of Wire, Oral or Electronic Communications" (Count 20) charges applied beginning in 2014. Those were illegal acts on their own. It wasn't legally necessary for them to be connected to the murders or part of planning them. So, yes, they're legally sound and related to the murders. JMO.
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Ok in looking back at count 19 now with the July 1, 2014 beginning date, it's for unlawful use of property not tampering. I could have sworn someone posted that #19 was a tampering charge. I must have read the post wrong. Sorry everyone and thank you Betty!
 
sunshineray said:
I'm interested to see the evidence of whose money paid for the bulletproof vests. Did discovery say exactly how many were found at FW'S farm?
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It was said in court at Fred's pretrial--2 vests were found.
Here are some interesting things mentioned in court that day:

Wagner’s defense attorneys James Owen and Charles Koenig expressed their displeasure that their ‘demand for discovery’ had not been met.
They argued they’d requested transcripts of Wagner’s testimony in front of a grand jury that happened before they were hired. The attorneys argue the transcripts will provide context of Wagner’s answers and the questions asked during her testimony.

Owen also brought to light that Wagner’s claims that she has impaired hearing and was having difficulty understanding questions at the time of her testimony that he says led to the obstruction and perjury charges.
“She’s a decent person who’s falsely being accused of being on the wrong side of the law,” Owen stated.

During the back and forth between attorneys it was revealed two bulletproof vests were seized by officials in May and were found in Wagner’s son’s room inside her home.
Owen also requested all documents and evidence relating to when the bulletproof vests were found and purchased.

“Fredericka is an honest, decent, law abiding citizen who is falsely accused of being on the wrong side of the law she doesn’t want to create anything that would create any suspicion to the contrary,” Owen said.

Owen also expressed the defense’s desire for a quick trial date so that Wagner could begin writing cards to her loved ones again.

The judge also announced Wagner’s bail be moved from government funding to self-pay.

At the end of the hearing Canepa requested a gag order in the case so that no parties speak to the media ahead of the trial. Owen quickly opposed the order.

“The day the news conference was issued they held a big news conference, they put out all this false information, they made false allegations about Fredericka, and at some point in time, not now, but at some point in time we may want to counter that. So I absolutely oppose it," Owen said. "After they taint the jury pool and put out all sorts of things we think aren’t true, now they want a gag order. We haven’t abused anything, we’ve complied with everything we’ve tried to be as reasonable as we can. I just don’t think there’s any need for it in this case and at some point in time we may want to talk to the press to correct the record.”

Canepa stated that the only thing said to any members of the media was the announcement of the indictments. She also said the state does not plan to speak on the case.

The judge asked both parties to submit their arguments for or against the gag order and he would review them.

Wagner’s next appearance in court will be her second pretrial hearing March 28 at 1:30 p.m.

Purchase of bulletproof vests at center of charges against Wagner matriarch
 
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sunshineray said:
Ok in looking back at count 19 now with the July 1, 2014 beginning date, it's for unlawful use of property not tampering. I could have sworn someone posted that #19 was a tampering charge. I must have read the post wrong. Sorry everyone and thank you Betty!
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Happy to help. I've found it helpful to download the copies of the indictments to my own laptop for easy reference.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments

The links are also in the Media & Timelines thread for this case:

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered
 
rsd1200 said:
Walmart's got it goin' on! Absolutely no way, would I buy items from them that were going to be used to commit a crime (nor would I attempt to steal from them. j.s.). Surely they didn't buy close to home, there are a boo coo of them within 40 sum odd miles from them. One even over in Ky. that's only around 35 miles.
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Here's a picture of them at a Walmart in Kenai Alaska. July 14, 2017
If they bought their supplies there, it still wasn't far enough away! o_O

Edward 'Jake' Wagner (left) Angela Wagner and George Wagner IV (right)
Were spotted heading to Walmart in Alaska. Police believe the family holds the key in helping solve the slayings of eight people in Piketon, Ohio
Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

424FE4E800000578-4683690-image-a-2_1500034235472.jpg
 
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Betty P said:
Curious about something I was reading last night about a vet who was busted for selling opiods. How easy is it for a livestock owner to purchase drugs by mail? What kinds of drugs can they purchase for animals?
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You can purchase meds online, but, if they are certain types of meds, (Tramadol for instance), you will need your vet info, and scrip. I've purchased pet meds at our local pharmacy with a scrip, and I've purchased online, but not meds that require a scrip. I can get the scrip meds pretty cheap at the pharmacy. W/o a scrip, and an animal in a terrible amount of pain, to get that scrip, I just don't think it would be possible. The horse at R&R had colic. They'd likely have given her Banamine, tubed her, and watched her closely. Colic can be deadly. I lost a great rackin' horse to sudden onset of colic.
 
rsd1200 said:
You can purchase meds online, but, if they are certain types of meds, (Tramadol for instance), you will need your vet info, and scrip. I've purchased pet meds at our local pharmacy with a scrip, and I've purchased online, but not meds that require a scrip. I can get the scrip meds pretty cheap at the pharmacy. W/o a scrip, and an animal in a terrible amount of pain, to get that scrip, I just don't think it would be possible. The horse at R&R had colic. They'd likely have given her Banamine, tubed her, and watched her closely. Colic can be deadly. I lost a great rackin' horse to sudden onset of colic.
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Yes, I've watched The Incredible Dr Pol and colic really is a problem for horses. Dr. Pol is the extent of my expertise on the topic. ;)
 
Betty P said:
Yes, I've watched The Incredible Dr Pol and colic really is a problem for horses. Dr. Pol is the extent of my expertise on the topic. ;)
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O/T Dr. Pol!!! Every time I'm at my parent's house they've got him on, and he's shoulder deep!! LOL If anyone wanted to hide somethin' a mare is where you could do so!!
 
Really good discussions!

Two items have bothered me since day one. I don’t think there is factual information pertaining to either of them.
So any discussion would be opinion or supposition.
1st The Dogs
Vets and drugs. Has it ever been established as to how the Wagners controlled, silenced the various dogs at the various locations. Drugs?
Even if the dogs felt they knew the Wagners, and initially had no vicious reaction to them, surely once the guns were fired, the dogs would have reacted.

2nd The Keys, entry and exit and doors locked, dogs outside at CRsr.

Maybe ONE of the actions covered in the earlier time frames is duplication of house keys at all locations.

How did Wagners get in and out and in the end, have doors locked?
 
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