GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[dancinunderthemoon]

Several 1 inch bruises on top (dorsal) of forearms and hands and finger cut and laceration to the middle finger nailbed

Seems this was probalby due to the grasping for SD... when he got her hair.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

when is the next podcast ?

 

[drama_farmer]

FWIW, I'm not sure why this popped into my head as a plausible de-capitation tool, but it did. With the victim lying face down, the force of gravity (or maybe a foot pressed against the victim's back) would provide some very useful leverage/cutting power.

Grasping at straws here. . . did he have extensive gold fillings?

 

[CocoChanel]

when is the next podcast ?

I think it’s next week.

 

[fred&edna]

I've been reviewing older threads again. Came across a few posts regarding reports that "someone" went to Huddle House and asked for security footage the might have, and that SS was reportedly looking into it?

Anyone remember reports of Mr D meeting friends at Huddle House before the murders?

I believe this info was discussed in Thread #3. Also, it appears I cannot access Thread 4 at the moment (I receive an error msg)... Maybe a system glitch?

Obviously I stink at keeping my mouth shut "til the next podcast episode". Total and repetitive fail.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

This is a good re-read from May 2015.
House was unlocked.

Relentless: Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills chases a killer

JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Jesus, what if.

He was discovered on his back, maybe that was the few feet it appeared he was moved when rolled over... Horrible to imagine

Wonder if there would be evidence left behind with the teeth or sharp edges or metal filings I'm assuming it has, can't see it close enough

I still can't figure how one foot was dragged through the blood with all the blood concentrated at head level and it would have to have been after the decap

I haven't seen any gold teeth findings

They'd have to sell them out of the country if they robbed him of that tho

FWIW, I'm not sure why this popped into my head as a plausible de-capitation tool, but it did. With the victim lying face down, the force of gravity (or maybe a foot pressed against the victim's back) would provide some very useful leverage/cutting power.

Grasping at straws here. . . did he have extensive gold fillings?

 

[fred&edna]

Anyone interested in compiling a list of "facts we actually know" in a semi-timeline fashion? Even in draft form where we then all help fill-in details... Would this be of any benefit? My real life & full-time job (yes, I actually have both, lol!) as well as my tendency to be scatterbrained prevents me from giving it try.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm right there with you (Stelehart) regarding "head removal to hide bullet"... it never completely made sense. Somewhere I remember SS saying it could have been taken to hide DNA evidence. Which still doesn't seem correct.

I've never entertained the thought that RD's body was "staged for discovery". Which is very possible. That act would add even more to the "send a message/make a statement" theory. IMO

I don’t believe the head was removed to prevent LE from recovering a bullet. I think the killer(s) was high on adrenaline after the killing and, in my opinion, the Dermonds were killed for some petty run in with the killer that the killer blew up into a major thing. He cut off RD’s head in an adrenaline rush, as a final “haha, take that!”.

 

[CocoChanel]

I have been thinking about how the perp(s) left everything pristine in the house, almost deliberately, perhaps, so as not to have mess inside. Who would care about that? Maybe people involved with cleaning and maintaining the large home?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Ok we know there was a slight skirmish due to the fact that RD had a few bruises on his distal forearms and a cut on his finger and bruised hands (IIRC) and a V shaped cut on middle finger nail. RD also had what appears to be SD hair in his hand (SD autopsy also says brown/blonde i think it was hair dye) and all this info is from the autopsy report

At any rate, according to reports, the blood was smeared all over with towels and tucked under RD to prevent further blood flowing under the door

The beheading was NOT intended.........Im no expert but I dont see bullets lodging at close range, arent they powerful!? even with skull bone? IDK...I cant get past it but Im sure it happens, Im thinking at some distance maybe.....I dont see that as a reason to behead him, they could have easily just hauled him off too

I can see a cord around the throat would prevent him from getting to SD more than a gun or knife would prevent him from trying and him BITING the PERP during strangulation, maybe almost decapitating him... now that blood in his mouth is very daming evidence you cannot leave behind....

SO THEN, you wonder, What was the plan to murder him and how? She apparently was bludgeoned with something that left a V mark so that could be a hammer end or a pry bar with nail puller end

Were they going to bludgeon him too? If they did then there was no need to take his head

As steleheart pointed out, the hammer or pry tool was their MO apparently.

But due to the towel and cleaning up it tells me it was not the plan, and all that trying to control the blood was after effects of something gone wrong

I just cant figure out what the coloring marks on the front of the throat 2" and then separate.. another one on his left side of neck 1 or 2" mark just under and along the cut......and the left shoulder mark same, all yellow/green in color

Were those marks from a cord and a fist of the perp putting pressure on the left shoulder?

Mainly this post was to say that I dont thnk the beheading was intentional, after they beheaded him to hide evidence, they struggled to mop it up a little and then they COULD NOT haul him off with all that blood everywhere

I JUST WONDER how the heck did they NOT step in it?!? and leave footprints or a toe print or SOMETHING?

ANd then there is a RED cement block weighing 30 lbs, 2 of them

WHO carries a hammer or pry bar tool and RED cinder blocks?

Sorry, didnt mean to be so uncharacteristically longwinded...HAHA

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

So in saying all that, I dont think were experts..........but I do agree now after reading SD autopsy, she was NOT intended to be found, they tied her like 8 times around the ankles........they were just stupid....they got bit, they were stupid, they shot him and bullet lodged possibly, they were stupid

BUt why behead him instead of just hauling him off like SD? Thats why I truly wonder if they didnt strangle him so violently that they almost beheaded him and so much blood but in the process he had bit him, so now that they couldnt haul him off due to so much blood, they finished it then panicking to try to keep the blood from going out the garage and sopping it up with towels .........

Seems like the three stooges maybe

BUT still dont know WHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Oh have mercy..........

#4 A quick turn of the body where you are back to back with the enemy and the enemy is hoisted off of his feet to complete the crush.

This is the movement that can possibly result in decapitation if a "cutter" garrotte is used.

except the perp is gonna get bloody

So in saying all that, I dont think were experts..........but I do agree now after reading SD autopsy, she was NOT intended to be found, they tied her like 8 times around the ankles........they were just stupid....they got bit, they were stupid, they shot him and bullet lodged possibly, they were stupid

BUt why behead him instead of just hauling him off like SD? Thats why I truly wonder if they didnt strangle him so violently that they almost beheaded him and so much blood but in the process he had bit him, so now that they couldnt haul him off due to so much blood, they finished it then panicking to try to keep the blood from going out the garage and sopping it up with towels .........

Seems like the three stooges maybe

BUT still dont know WHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

OMG< and to top off their stooge activity, they used multi colored 550 paracord..........

Kaleidoscope - 550 Paracord


great for fishing, camping

• Versatile: Use the 550 paracord for survival gear, shoe laces, belts, weaves, wraps, bracelets, belts, lanyards, decorations, fishing line, snares, and sutures

So lets see if the blue mesh bags are boy scout stuff too

I think they used every single thing they had already, messed up and had to leave him lying there

and FWIW, a cheese slicer is a garrote

So in saying all that, I dont think were experts..........but I do agree now after reading SD autopsy, she was NOT intended to be found, they tied her like 8 times around the ankles........they were just stupid....they got bit, they were stupid, they shot him and bullet lodged possibly, they were stupid

BUt why behead him instead of just hauling him off like SD? Thats why I truly wonder if they didnt strangle him so violently that they almost beheaded him and so much blood but in the process he had bit him, so now that they couldnt haul him off due to so much blood, they finished it then panicking to try to keep the blood from going out the garage and sopping it up with towels .........

Seems like the three stooges maybe

BUT still dont know WHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

these weigh 22.4 lbs according to specifications online
4 in. x 11.75 in. x 6.75 in. River Red Concrete Retaining Wall blocks

12" isnt very big, so 3 of these or similar were both inside one blue mesh bag with white sting and knot

So red is mostly garden blocks?

Are they common in Great Waters Community?

Also found a blue mesh equipment bag 24x36" for gym equip. with white string as in SD autopsy report was tied in knot and also had white string, the larger size of this is

2, 13 - 18" cement blocks would fit into this easily

the camping blue mesh goes up in size to 36 x45
may be large enough to tie end in knot with blocks inside

OMG< and to top off their stooge activity, they used multi colored 550 paracord..........

Kaleidoscope - 550 Paracord


great for fishing, camping

• Versatile: Use the 550 paracord for survival gear, shoe laces, belts, weaves, wraps, bracelets, belts, lanyards, decorations, fishing line, snares, and sutures

So lets see if the blue mesh bags are boy scout stuff too

I think they used every single thing they had already, messed up and had to leave him lying there

and FWIW, a cheese slicer is a garrote

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I too wear coco chanel!

Ok we know there was a slight skirmish due to the fact that RD had a few bruises on his distal forearms and a cut on his finger and bruised hands (IIRC) and a V shaped cut on middle finger nail. RD also had what appears to be SD hair in his hand (SD autopsy also says brown/blonde i think it was hair dye) and all this info is from the autopsy report

At any rate, according to reports, the blood was smeared all over with towels and tucked under RD to prevent further blood flowing under the door

The beheading was NOT intended.........Im no expert but I dont see bullets lodging at close range, arent they powerful!? even with skull bone? IDK...I cant get past it but Im sure it happens, Im thinking at some distance maybe.....I dont see that as a reason to behead him, they could have easily just hauled him off too

I can see a cord around the throat would prevent him from getting to SD more than a gun or knife would prevent him from trying and him BITING the PERP during strangulation, maybe almost decapitating him... now that blood in his mouth is very daming evidence you cannot leave behind....

SO THEN, you wonder, What was the plan to murder him and how? She apparently was bludgeoned with something that left a V mark so that could be a hammer end or a pry bar with nail puller end

Were they going to bludgeon him too? If they did then there was no need to take his head

As steleheart pointed out, the hammer or pry tool was their MO apparently.

But due to the towel and cleaning up it tells me it was not the plan, and all that trying to control the blood was after effects of something gone wrong

I just cant figure out what the coloring marks on the front of the throat 2" and then separate.. another one on his left side of neck 1 or 2" mark just under and along the cut......and the left shoulder mark same, all yellow/green in color

Were those marks from a cord and a fist of the perp putting pressure on the left shoulder?

Mainly this post was to say that I dont thnk the beheading was intentional, after they beheaded him to hide evidence, they struggled to mop it up a little and then they COULD NOT haul him off with all that blood everywhere

I JUST WONDER how the heck did they NOT step in it?!? and leave footprints or a toe print or SOMETHING?

ANd then there is a RED cement block weighing 30 lbs, 2 of them

WHO carries a hammer or pry bar tool and RED cinder blocks?

Sorry, didnt mean to be so uncharacteristically longwinded...HAHA

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

FWIW, I'm not sure why this popped into my head as a plausible de-capitation tool, but it did. With the victim lying face down, the force of gravity (or maybe a foot pressed against the victim's back) would provide some very useful leverage/cutting power.

Grasping at straws here. . . did he have extensive gold fillings?

looked up some more, even a cheese grader wire is a garrote! What you mention is one technique and I posted another maneuver that decapitates.......thanks for info!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The .22 LR Iver-Johnson Cadet revolver is what was used to kill Bobby Kennedy. In his case the bullet was a hollow point and fragmented upon entering his skull.

DIDNT EXIT but fragmented, wouldnt you know this when using one so you dont have to behead the victim to hide evidence? WHy use it?

A solid lead bullet would have remained intact, most of its inertial energy is expended penetrating the skull, then the bullet just kind of bounces around inside the cranium, not having enough energy to penetrate the other side

AGAIN< WHY USE It if you are going to have to behead him to retrieve evidence??

Since a .22 LR had a range of up to a mile. I believe that it can penetrate a skull at distances far greater than 10 meters.

but some dont, WHY RISK it?

Lincoln was killed with a .44 caliber black powder pistol held almost to his head. The bullet entered the left side of his head behind the ear bisected the brain, and almost exited the right side above the skull above the right eye.

I DONT KNOW.......seems gun enthusiasts and killers would know these things but obvioulsy these killers were clowns yet no one can solve this crime!

 

[deugirtni]

I have been thinking about how the perp(s) left everything pristine in the house, almost deliberately, perhaps, so as not to have mess inside. Who would care about that? Maybe people involved with cleaning and maintaining the large home?

Or someone concerned about resale value afterward?

 

[deugirtni]

If presumably the attackers/killers were GONE from the scene as quickly as possible, why care about the blood seeping out from under the garage door? What reason is there for postponing the discovery of this event? It looks like the home was fairly secluded.. perhaps the postal person would have been first to see anything - but what is the issue with it being reported and discovered on next mail day?