CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

[Kapua]

Thank you! Wow, we have learned a lot.
MOO

I still need to research a couple of the answers. Most are in the affidavit, I think.

 

[PommyMommy]

I wonder what the motive was for PF. It doesn't seem like a Rhoden case where he and/or his mother would do anything to get custody of the baby. And they weren't married, so he could walk away from her unscathed, I would think. Was it a child support issue? Was he paying child support? If not, would the custody papers, if filed, caused him to have to start paying? I wonder who initiated the unfiled papers.

The paperwork was found at the Frazee residence and was dated August 2018 but never filed. Instead, the next month, PF began soliciting KK to murder KB. The B's claim in the wrongful death lawsuit that the motive was custody. I believe that.
MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

Commander Adams says Frazee was seen going toward Berreth’s town home. A neighbor’s home surveillance has pictures of Frazee at Berreth's door. That was around 1:34 p.m. the day she went missing. Neighbor’s surveillance caught Frazee at Berreth's home again at 3:36 p.m. that same day.

Phone records from Nov. 22 show both phones located in Berreth’s apartment at 12:30 p.m. Both phones were traveling together later that day. Later that evening phone towers showed both phones together again.

UPDATE: Patrick Frazee facing new charges after preliminary hearing

Adams says Frazee’s brother, Shawn, told police he saw Patrick on Thanksgiving. Says he got to the house around 2:30. He had his daughter with him.

To be clear, SF2 (PF's brother) arrived at 2:30 p.m.

Patrick Frazee allegedly had blindfolded Kelsey Berreth, bludgeoned her with baseball bat
SF2, Patrick's brother and a Colorado Springs police officer, dropped by Patrick's house at 2:30 p.m. Nov. 22, Adams said. Patrick was not home but arrived "a little later" with the couple’s child. Nothing was out of the ordinary, Adams said. Patrick and Sean Frazee were described as “estranged.”

(Brother's name changed to initials by me)

MOO

 

[gitana1]

I know! Just one word could make a difference and change the meaning of things.
It can take pages of discussion to clear up one sentence.

Yes but using common sense should prevent that. I kind of think some are too determined to make the evidence fit a scenario they want to believe in that common sense is being ignored?

 

[gitana1]

Has anyone seen Scott Reisch latest upload on YouTube with regards to this case?
He's saying that the DA potentially made a deal with the wrong one. All the info and details that KK gave about the murder does nothing more than places her there. What do you guys think?

Please tell me if I'm not allowed to post YouTube links and I'll edit it out straight away

I think he's a defense attorney that likes to make provocative statements that cast doubt about a defendant's guilt. He also made similar, hyperbolic statements indicating CW was innocent and/or they wouldn't be able to use his own statements against him.

 

[Ccging]

So not that most of the people involved in this case make sense but I’m surprised that KK’s ex has not filed for custody of their children.

IMO I find out my baby mama attempted to kill someone 3 times and then cleaned up a crime scene and helped dispose of evidence and a body I’m getting my kids the heck away from her.

 

[gitana1]

I respectfully disagree - there is a case in FL similar to this one - Michelle Parker - still no arrest after 7 years - the evidence they have isn't even enough to arrest him and it is quite a lot. KK sealed the deal, IMO. The devil you know as I posted upthread. With the baby in their possession (SF/PF) it was a gamble too great IMO. I don't like it, but I do like the result. Baby is safe with people who will surround her with love. KK will have no real life post trial IMO.

Agreed. Can you imagine the injustice and horror of years of that murderer going free while possessing the baby and preventing KB's family from getting even a hug?

 

[oviedo]

And remember that LE was able to arrest PF just under 3 weeks from the start of the investigation and recover baby K at the time of the arrest. That's a speedy time frame for a homicide arrest, and unusually speedy for a "no body" case. It's easy to second-guess LE, but they did what they had to do to put away a very, very evil and dangerous man. They did what they had to do, IMHO. And ITA that KK will have no real life. Her prison is the scorn and shame she has to live with forever, and the felony on her record that she'll have to explain any time she needs a background check. Notice how she has not shown her face in public except for at her court appearance. That's her prison. MOO

I also think her ex may move for custody - I wonder where she is living? Did she return home and did he allow it (I should check the deed to see who was awarded the property in the divorce when I get a chance).

 

[gitana1]

This happens every time when the worst of it is done by the man, people always want to say the woman caused it. And even when the man confesses (like in the Sherin Mathews case), then it’s got to be that he’s protecting her. Yes, the women are often culpable for their part, but somehow they get the worst of the vitriol and blame.

I posted about that yesterday. The myth of the she devil. People tend to judge women more harshly than men in these cases.

 

[gitana1]

Exactly. Women are always getting the blame.

Heck, even female VICTIMS get the blame. It was horrible on the Watts family thread with people insisting the murder victim brought it on herself by being the actual killer of her children.

Now we have a woman who wasn't there, being deemed the murderer. Of course there's no similarity between the monster KK and the innocent SW but the pattern of ignoring evidence, ignoring the lack of evidence and failing to use common sense in order to see a female as the culprit, seems to me to be the same.

 

[Julia966]

To be clear, SF2 (PF's brother) arrived at 2:30 p.m.

Patrick Frazee allegedly had blindfolded Kelsey Berreth, bludgeoned her with baseball bat
SF2, Patrick's brother and a Colorado Springs police officer, dropped by Patrick's house at 2:30 p.m. Nov. 22, Adams said. Patrick was not home but arrived "a little later" with the couple’s child. Nothing was out of the ordinary, Adams said. Patrick and Sean Frazee were described as “estranged.”

(Brother's name changed to initials by me)

MOO

Thanks for that. I thought I had read the "little later" part somewhere.

 

[Julia966]

Heck, even female VICTIMS get the blame. It was horrible on the Watts family thread with people insisting the murder victim brought it on herself by being the actual killer of her children.

Now we have a woman who wasn't there, being deemed the murderer. Of course there's no similarity between the monster KK and the innocent SW but the pattern of ignoring evidence, ignoring the lack of evidence and failing to use common sense in order to see a female as the culprit, seems to me to be the same.

Yup. It's been dismaying to me, but I'm hoping it will blow over.

 

[gitana1]

We don’t really know for sure that KB was killed on the 22nd. PF could have incapacitated her in some way and waited for KK to arrive. There’s just no proof she was killed on the 22nd. Just KK’s word. I just find it so hard to believe that the bloody scene of the crime would be left to be cleaned 2 days later.

I think it's even more improbable that they'd incapacitate a victim for two days and leave her lying around, risking the possibility that she could come to and get away and go to police.

I have not heard of a case in which a murderer who wanted the victim dead (and not as a play toy to sexually assault and/or torture, for example), intentionally kept a victim alive for a couple days before killing them.

To keep her drugged for example for two days would be difficult. And why would they do that? Why wouldn't he just wait until KK got there and then go over and kill her?

 

[mtnlites]

Heck, even female VICTIMS get the blame. It was horrible on the Watts family thread with people insisting the murder victim brought it on herself by being the actual killer of her children.

Now we have a woman who wasn't there, being deemed the murderer. Of course there's no similarity between the monster KK and the innocent SW but the pattern of ignoring evidence, ignoring the lack of evidence and failing to use common sense in order to see a female as the culprit, seems to me to be the same.

There are those who are just going to blame KK over PF no matter what evidence comes forward. Even if secret videotape of PF killing KB is released, I'm sure we'll still hear about how KK was the "true" mastermind-the same way that even when CW pleaded guilty people were still blaming SW for CW's actions. It's baffling.

 

[oviedo]

The paperwork was found at the Frazee residence and was dated August 2018 but never filed. Instead, the next month, PF began soliciting KK to murder KB. The B's claim in the wrongful death lawsuit that the motive was custody. I believe that.
MOO

I do too - did the article say the documents were never "filed" - because IMO we consider a filed document in a legal matter a pleading and in this case, it would seem to be his desire for custody and that would definitely be filed with the court if he was moving for full custody. However, if the documents were papers relating to the baby they could be anything IMO. I want to see the documents - but IMO they were filing for custody - I think something significant changed in the PF/KB relationship that summer (Oh how i wish I had screenshot some SM) and when he possibly discovered he had no shot at full custody, plan B was hatched with KK. All JMO.

 

[Kapua]

I wonder what the motive was for PF. It doesn't seem like a Rhoden case where he and/or his mother would do anything to get custody of the baby. And they weren't married, so he could walk away from her unscathed, I would think. Was it a child support issue? Was he paying child support? If not, would the custody papers, if filed, caused him to have to start paying? I wonder who initiated the unfiled papers.

I'm going to take a wild stab at motive now. I wasn't seeing it before. All of this is MOO. The grain of truth in the lies may be that KB was getting weary of commuting to Pueblo from WP. Long commutes in heavy traffic are stressful. Had she sold or rented her condo and moved closer to work, PF and SF would have had less time with baby K and KB might have made other child care arrangements that did not include SF and may have resulted in PF having to pay child support. IMHO, SF in particular had bonded with little K, and PF was at least OK with the arrangement they had. So, PF investigated the possibility of getting full custody. In doing so, he determined that unless he could prove that KB was an unfit mother, that was not going to happen. So he started spreading lies about little K having burn marks on her hands, KB shutting the refrigerator door on her hand, KB being a terrible mother, etc. But he knew he'd need proof and he didn't have it. So his mind went to another, treacherous way of getting custody of K - by murdering her mother.

I wasn't seeing custody as a motive before because CB said that KB loved her job. And KB had purchased the townhome, so I assumed that she liked the area, loved her job, and wanted to stay. But it makes sense to me that after commuting to Pueblo in heavy traffic for several months, and also trying to care for an infant, that she needed to make a change.

All MOO

I am interested to see what the DA thinks. But it will probably be a long while before we know.

 

[oviedo]

Agreed. Can you imagine the injustice and horror of years of that murderer going free while possessing the baby and preventing KB's family from getting even a hug?

And that's why I am A-ok with this deal IMO. The baby is safe.

 

[Kapua]

There are those who are just going to blame KK over PF no matter what evidence comes forward. Even if secret videotape of PF killing KB is released, I'm sure we'll still hear about how KK was the "true" mastermind-the same way that even when CW pleaded guilty people were still blaming SW for CW's actions. It's baffling.

I don't follow every case here on WS, so I was surprised by this. I respect everyone's opinions, but I do prefer the ones that make sense and line up with the hard evidence. MOO

 

[Aydrianna523]

I believe the affidavit cited Sean F as making 2 trips to SF home on Thanksgiving— and saw PF on the later. MOO

Is there another affidavit, I reread it and couldn't find anything about sf2. Did we hear it at the preliminary hearing instead?

 

[oviedo]

I'm going to take a wild stab at motive now. I wasn't seeing it before. All of this is MOO. The grain of truth in the lies may be that KB was getting weary of commuting to Pueblo from WP. Long commutes in heavy traffic are stressful. Had she sold or rented her condo and moved closer to work, PF and SF would have had less time with baby K and KB might have made other child care arrangements that did not include SF and may have resulted in PF having to pay child support. IMHO, SF in particular had bonded with little K, and PF was at least OK with the arrangement they had. So, PF investigated the possibility of getting full custody. In doing so, he determined that unless he could prove that KB was an unfit mother, that was not going to happen. So he started spreading lies about little K having burn marks on her hands, KB shutting the refrigerator door on her hand, KB being a terrible mother, etc. But he knew he'd need proof and he didn't have it. So his mind went to another, treacherous way of getting custody of K - by murdering her mother.

I wasn't seeing custody as a motive before because CB said that KB loved her job. And KB had purchased the townhome, so I assumed that she liked the area, loved her job, and wanted to stay. But it makes sense to me that after commuting to Pueblo in heavy traffic for several months, and trying to care for an infant, that she needed to make a change.

All MOO

I am interested to see what the DA thinks. But it will probably be a long while before we know.

And another thought may be that the baby was getting around a lot and perhaps KB was considering child care near her work which means she could spend time with the baby on the commute - singing songs, etc. and visit her at lunch, etc. Enabling her to have a closer relationship as a working parent. This may have enraged SF/PF IMO- baby K would spend more time with Mommy and they may not like that... JMO