Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #9 *ARREST*

[Inspecthernightly]

It would be really interesting to know just how dark that park is at night (with a quarter moon). Whether it would be possible/impossible to see where you were going, whether it might be easy to hide, whether you would see the pond/river before you ran into it, whether there are joggers/cyclists/kids around, whether there are foxes etc etc

Next similar moon phase is this coming week - 27th/28th.

Yeah id love to know this too

 

[Audiohoney]

Strontium , have you tried puncture resistant tyres like schwalbe marathons , they really do work , almost completely stop punctures.

I’m on these too. They changed my puncture rate from once every couple of months to never in three years (so far!!) I think mine are called Alligator or similar? Anyway, they’re game changing.

 

[Newthoughts]

No im saying as little as 3 days earlier he stole another girls knickers from Ventnor Street.
So he clearly has a liking for keeping personal items off his victims , i can also imagine him filming stuff as others have suggested before. he clearly enjoys what he does.
If he took Libby to the park and made a move on her and she screamed , possibly ran , he might have killed her to silence her noise (deliberately or accidentally).
After that i dont think he would have panicked , he would have been energised on adrenaline and hyper alert , he would have got her somewhere dark and unobserved and spent as long as he chose with her. He probably observed other people in and around the park more than they observed him. he would obviously have been prioritising stealth and as a predator it would be second nature to him. The only difficulty would have been disposing of the body. Maybe he lay low waiting for the park to be totally quiet and then carried her to the river , but i dont see him just carrying her in plain sight , plus the tide was half out so i cant see him risking walking on the mud bank to reach the river to put her in. More likely he would have got her somewhere dark and out of sight when he subdued her and thought about the best thing to do then , and that would be to hide her somewhere private like croda or transport her somewhere else.
Im just thinking how likely it is that he kept something of libbys and the chances that maybe the police found something of Libbys in his house , and if for example the police had found Libbys knickers in PRs house wether that would be good enough proof to charge him with abduction and murder.

I agree and one thing that needs to be considered is he is good at stealth and calmness. He'd broken into a house three days before and been sure enough of himself to spend time removing photos and hunting for sex toys rathet than just grabbing high value easy to find items like lap tops and getting out. He knew enough about the occupants to be sure of finding stuff like that and that he wouldn't be disturbed. He's also been charged with 2 or 3 counts of voyeurism that span years and is likely to have committed the 26th December charge that was dropped. So it's probably safe to assume he has got away with it many times before. But if he'd got something of Libby's they'd have charged him I think.

So has he got somewhere else for temporary store of stuff. The police were on it and looking by Friday morning and he was apparently washing his car - in freezing -5 weather. Where else could he have got before 3am

 

[Inspecthernightly]

I salute your bravery sir, i wouldnt go in there alone at night

 

[Audiohoney]

So has he got somewhere else for temporary store of stuff. The police were on it and looking by Friday morning and he was apparently washing his car - in freezing -5 weather. Where else could he have got before 3am

Where does it state he was washing his car in -5C ??

 

[Inspecthernightly]

Agr

I’m on these too. They changed my puncture rate from once every couple of months to never in three years (so far!!) I think mine are called Alligator or similar? Anyway, they’re game changing.

Agreed, i use these too

 

[Cc8181]

You'll have to take my word for it, as the camera can't pick anything up at night at all!

The only lit area of the park is at the entrance.

However, up on the river bank you can see fairly well by the lights from across the river.

(1) Start of the video, fairly pitch black, some light from the far bank.
(2) Along this part of the bank it is fairly well lit from the far bank; into this part of the woods visibility is good enough to see colour and to read from the lights from the far bank.
(3) Underneath the giant turbine at the end of the video
(4) This clearing inside the wooded area was very good visibility during full moon.

Thank you for doing this and I hope your keeping a lot better! Watching this video is eerie but also sad because I was thinking the fear what libby must have felt being alone in that park

You'll have to take my word for it, as the camera can't pick anything up at night at all!

The only lit area of the park is at the entrance.

However, up on the river bank you can see fairly well by the lights from across the river.

(1) Start of the video, fairly pitch black, some light from the far bank.
(2) Along this part of the bank it is fairly well lit from the far bank; into this part of the woods visibility is good enough to see colour and to read from the lights from the far bank.
(3) Underneath the giant turbine at the end of the video
(4) This clearing inside the wooded area was very good visibility during full moon.

Wow to go in there at night is very brave and thank you for doing this..also hope your feeling better!!..after watching this it's just like please find libby..thinking of her being took there and the fear she must have had.. I wonder (if ) this is PR .did he know his way about the park..i know he didn't know that libby would have been out and end up sitting on her own but i do think adrenaline kicked in when he saw her and a chance to take advantage of a girl. Over time he has gotten more confident so i think if not libby it would have been someone else soon..in your own opinion do you think she is in the park? ..I had it in my head that she's been taken somewhere else but then I look at your footage and how big the park is she could be anywhere there..

 

[TheCasual]

Hiya all. I'm new to the forum.

I'm from Hull and live about 2 miles away from the area and work about 1.5 miles.

I'm not sure why, but this case has shook me to core. I'm not normally bothered by the news. But this has got.

Maybe because it's so close to home. I've had countless nights out saround Cottingham road, Bev Road and the Avenues. I've a mate who lives Phillip Larkin Close and other mates who live on the Avenues and a few of lads at work live in around Avenues.

From reading on here I'm guessing people are agreement that Pawel Relowicz is involved?

I know he is deviant, but I'm still unsure. It's big leap to go from sexual indecency, sexual theft to abduction.

 

[Inspecthernightly]

Hiya all. I'm new to the forum.

I'm from Hull and live about 2 miles away from the area and work about 1.5 miles.

I'm not sure why, but this case has shook me to core. I'm not normally bothered by the news. But this has got.

Maybe because it's so close to home. I've had countless nights out saround Cottingham road, Bev Road and the Avenues. I've a mate who lives Phillip Larkin Close and other mates who live on the Avenues and a few of lads at work live in around Avenues.

From reading on here I'm guessing people are agreement that Pawel Relowicz is involved?

I know he is deviant, but I'm still unsure. It's big leap to go from sexual indecency, sexual theft to abduction.

Its shaken all of us that are local, i personaly have never been affected by a case as much as this one.

 

[Audiohoney]

Hiya all. I'm new to the forum.

I'm from Hull and live about 2 miles away from the area and work about 1.5 miles.

I'm not sure why, but this case has shook me to core. I'm not normally bothered by the news. But this has got.

Maybe because it's so close to home. I've had countless nights out saround Cottingham road, Bev Road and the Avenues. I've a mate who lives Phillip Larkin Close and other mates who live on the Avenues and a few of lads at work live in around Avenues.

From reading on here I'm guessing people are agreement that Pawel Relowicz is involved?

I know he is deviant, but I'm still unsure. It's big leap to go from sexual indecency, sexual theft to abduction.

Welcome and yes I can appreciate it must feel very close to home.

To clarify, it has not been proven PR is deviant in any way. He has so far pleaded ‘not guilty’ to the charges put before him. Innocent until proven guilty. IF he is found guilty of those offences it’s not perhaps a big a leap as you might think. As has been discussed previously on here, killers and rapists begin somewhere - often with these seemingly minor offences.

As I understand it, views here differ from person to person regarding PRs involvement in the LS case and I’m sure I’m not the only one who has swung from being convinced he had nothing to do with it, to absolutely certain of his involvement, to being unsure again.

Even the little evidence we have access to - spider cam cctv, quotes from PRs family in the MSM etc are not confirmed by the police to be fact.

That said, in the absence of any other suspects (the police have stated he is still the only person of interest to the case) PRs involvement is pretty much our only suspect and in a case lacking much other evidence I guess that’s why we’re assuming police know more than we do and are (hopefully) looking at the right person.

 

[Deleted member 238128]

Hiya all. I'm new to the forum.

I'm from Hull and live about 2 miles away from the area and work about 1.5 miles.

I'm not sure why, but this case has shook me to core. I'm not normally bothered by the news. But this has got.

Maybe because it's so close to home. I've had countless nights out saround Cottingham road, Bev Road and the Avenues. I've a mate who lives Phillip Larkin Close and other mates who live on the Avenues and a few of lads at work live in around Avenues.

From reading on here I'm guessing people are agreement that Pawel Relowicz is involved?

I know he is deviant, but I'm still unsure. It's big leap to go from sexual indecency, sexual theft to abduction.

Hi TheCasual, welcome

There has been quite a bit of debate about whether or not flashers and voyeurs progress to rape and murder, and even the “experts” who write about the subject seem to differ in their opinions. Serial killer Dennis Radar (BTK killer) stole women’s underwear, closer to home, Trevor Hamilton started flashing as a young boy and progressed to murder. I found this article giving one view point interesting Why flashers are no laughing matter, even when the victim's a man

In my opinion, it is likely that P is involved. I believe he is an opportunistic, spur of the moment thrill seeker, who’s brazen enough to think he can get away with most things and lacks impulse control. I don’t think he would have set out to abduct or murder on the night Libby went missing, but may have been cruising around looking for someone too vulnerable to fight back and perhaps drunk enough not to be able to recall detailed information for police. I suspect his impulse took over, he put Libby in the car, planned some sort of sexual advance/ flashing and then things quickly escalated. All my own opinion - and you are right that we don’t have confirmation from LE that Libby was in P’s car.

 

[Newthoughts]

Hiya all. I'm new to the forum.

I'm from Hull and live about 2 miles away from the area and work about 1.5 miles.

I'm not sure why, but this case has shook me to core. I'm not normally bothered by the news. But this has got.

Maybe because it's so close to home. I've had countless nights out saround Cottingham road, Bev Road and the Avenues. I've a mate who lives Phillip Larkin Close and other mates who live on the Avenues and a few of lads at work live in around Avenues.

From reading on here I'm guessing people are agreement that Pawel Relowicz is involved?

I know he is deviant, but I'm still unsure. It's big leap to go from sexual indecency, sexual theft to abduction.

Immediately after he was arrested before anything else was officially known the papers seem to have gone to his family. His sister said in the Telegraph that he'd told them he'd seen a girl crying had offered to take her home and put her address into his sat nav intending to do just that but she'd come on to him and he'd pushed her away because he's a married man. Similar versions of thatb family story cropped up till the charges were known.

That he'd contacted his family before his arrest and given them reasons for her DNA and possibly blood to be found makes it sound suspicious to me. It certainly shows some involvement. I don't think anyone in Libby's situation, student, drunk, cold and scared would have come on to a stranger. I do think she would have been naive enough to trust him tho. He looks young.

 

[Audiohoney]

Immediately after he was arrested before anything else was officially known the papers seem to have gone to his family. His sister said in the Telegraph that he'd told them he'd seen a girl crying had offered to take her home and put her address into his sat nav intending to do just that but she'd come on to him and he'd pushed her away because he's a married man. Similar versions of thatb family story cropped up till the charges were known.

That he'd contacted his family before his arrest and given them reasons for her DNA and possibly blood to be found makes it sound suspicious to me. It certainly shows some involvement. I don't think anyone in Libby's situation, student, drunk, cold and scared would have come on to a stranger. I do think she would have been naive enough to trust him tho. He looks young.

It might not be that he’d told his mother and sister days ahead of his arrest though. It could be that he was arrested with his wife in the house and that she had asked him what the hell is going on. He could have had the story ready to go. Or equally I believe he’d be allowed one phone call? So could perhaps have explained to his family then.

If my partner told me he’d given a girl a lift home and that girl was reported missing I’d be insisting he spoke to LE. So unless his wife would not dare stand up to him, I can’t believe he told his family days before his arrest. I think he was forced to tell them upon his arrest and had a story ready to go. JMO.

 

[jessie]

Yes it is wide enough for a car the whole way from Beresford Avenue to Clough Road. BUT at the Clough end there is a padlock on the barrier PLUS there are three independent rising bollards all with locks on.

I have not heard of them searching the allotment. They have searched/bramble strimmed either side of the Oak road pathway between these two barriers, and also were on the inside of the Croda fence that runs along that part of the pathway/Oak Road.

The allotment has a secure locked car gate further up along Clough Road, keys are gained from the Council when you put your name down for an allotment and get one and start paying for it.

Is there the tiniest possibility he may rent an allotment? He has been living there a few years now ?

 

[Newthoughts]

It might not be that he’d told his mother and sister days ahead of his arrest though. It could be that he was arrested with his wife in the house and that she had asked him what the hell is going on. He could have had the story ready to go. Or equally I believe he’d be allowed one phone call? So could perhaps have explained to his family then.

If my partner told me he’d given a girl a lift home and that girl was reported missing I’d be insisting he spoke to LE. So unless his wife would not dare stand up to him, I can’t believe he told his family days before his arrest. I think he was forced to tell them upon his arrest and had a story ready to go. JMO.

I guess it would make sense not to say anything till you had to. It's a very strange story to tell if he had nothing at all to do with it tho. And the press were onto his family as soon as they'd got his name. Both mother and sister came out with it. Why mention things like putting the address in sat nav and the pushing away? Why those elaborations? So I'm guessing she did come into contact with him and his car. But you're right it's not evidence for anything else.

I'm guessing the police didn't know about his involvement in the other crimes till they searched his house and took DNA and fingerprints because he hadn't charged him for them before.

 

[mark balchin]

Is there the tiniest possibility he may rent an allotment? He has been living there a few years now ?

Yes, there could be a chance of that , plus a lot of terraced houses also look to rent garages in blocks because of lack of parking, locals, are there many garage blocks in the vacinity of raglan street?

 

[motherofdaughters]

I’m just trying to clarify some things in my head.
It’s been discussed how it became a missing persons enquiry, seemingly, very quickly. Which is slightly unusual?
I recal it being discussed that it’s possible because there were early reports to the police and or sightings of a ‘distressed girl’ or similar.
I was just reading one of the earlier reports on the story from some interviews (loosely speaking) with uni students, the day it broke and one lad says the police informed him she was last sighted on campus.
Again, this was VERY early on the first day.
This would contradict the discussed theory they’d already looked on CCTV.
Is it more likely the student relayed the information wrong, or there was possibly another reason they escalated it so quickly?

It’s towards the bottom of the article, statement by Jim Y.

Apologies if this has been covered, I have read all the previous threads but I’m not retaining it all!


Shock as police search for Libby, 21, missing after getting in taxi

 

[TheCasual]

Some really interesting points above. I'm not really knowledgeable on this sort of thing. I'm learning from you all.

The thing that makes me doubt it's PR is if he is such an opportunist and can't control his urges. He'd of left enough evidence to be charged for at least abduction.

 

[motherofdaughters]

Some really interesting points above. I'm not really knowledgeable on this sort of thing. I'm learning from you all.

The thing that makes me doubt it's PR is if he is such an opportunist and can't control his urges. He'd of left enough evidence to be charged for at least abduction.

I’m leaning towards him just being exceptionally lucky so far.

ETA- IF it is PR

 

[Deleted member 238128]

Some really interesting points above. I'm not really knowledgeable on this sort of thing. I'm learning from you all.

The thing that makes me doubt it's PR is if he is such an opportunist and can't control his urges. He'd of left enough evidence to be charged for at least abduction.

Could be wrong but unless they have evidence showing a clear struggle - ie. Libby forcibly put into car, then evidence of Libby being in the car (if it existed - we don’t know what forensics found) wouldn’t be enough to proceed with abduction charges. Libby could have entered car willingly and P. could be saying that he dropped her off somewhere and has no idea where she went after that.