Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #9 *ARREST*

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Human decomposition starts at around 4 minutes after death. Obviously it takes quite some time for humans to be able to smell it. As I understand things, a lot will depend on the conditions in which the body is kept. Many dogs are now trained on pseudo scents that are available for purchase and not trained with animal scent. In fact I believe there are some dogs trained in the United States at the FBI Body Farm so they are using real scent.

I think a lot will depend on the training the dogs receive and their handler but there have been studies where the dogs have signalled within less than ten minutes.

I find this fascinating, our doggie friends are truly wonderful creatures.

They are amazing.

But erm...body farm?? I need to google that it sounds creepy.
 
They are amazing.

But erm...body farm?? I need to google that it sounds creepy.

It may be called something else in USA, I'm not there so sorry if that's offensive. I believe it to be a place where those who have died unidentified / without family / never claimed can be buried. A bit like medical science donation but for dogs. I hope what I have read over the years is accurate !
 
It may be called something else in USA, I'm not there so sorry if that's offensive. I believe it to be a place where those who have died unidentified / without family / never claimed can be buried. A bit like medical science donation but for dogs. I hope what I have read over the years is accurate !

I might donate myself!

Fascinating stuff really!!
 
It has always niggled me about the burglary/voyeurism charges.

I have always PR was picked up due to his car, possibly due to some CCTV, being in the area. And that once they searched his house, they then found stuff.

They immediately charged him with voyeurism and burglary.

Well, okay, how did they know?

They seized his laptop/phone when they first arrested him looking for Libby, and found something else, possibly or possibly not connected to Libby.

Okay, but what in detail? I assumed he had taken video of himself, but I could only relate that to the incident at Wellesley.

So how did the Police know, as soon as they opened his life, that he had been burgling and voyeuring on his neighbours?

The full charges put to Pawel Relowicz were :

  • Between December 7 and December 10, 2017, you entered as a trespasser to a property in Raglan Street and stoke therein of a value unknown three vibrators
  • On January 19, 2019 you committed an act outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner by masturbating in a public place
  • Between December 1 and December 4, 2017, in Hull, namely Lambton Street, you entered as a trespasser and stoke therein a PlayStation 4 console, a controller and £25 in cash
  • Between January 25 and January 28, 2019, you entered as a trespasser in Ventnor Street and stole a computer laptop, a Kindle, a speaker, a quantity of sex toys, condoms, knickers and photographs
  • On January 23, 2018, in Estuary Street you observed another person doing a private act know that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification
Incidentally, I know of no Estuary Street in Hull??

How did they know these dates historically, going back 2 years? Did they fit him for burglaries previously reported? I wondered about someone having a theory that he knew an estate agent so was able to get some kind of key to these properties. Was he perhaps involved with planting mini cameras and bugging student houses? Just a thought... may or may not have any relevance, although Police have always stated ZERO relevance.
Ive always thought that the burglary charges were either recovered items after house search as you suggest and/or prints etc taken at the time of burglary but not matching any database .Only matchable once PR had been arrested on susp of abduction and prints/samples taken then.

Also looked at possibility that possible semen samples taken from prev offences somehow matched PR samples from the night or even after forensic teams looked at Wellesley doors/doorsteps etc.

Cant seem to find any reliable info on how long human semen remains viable forensically when in an open environnent. Hours/days/weeks?

If the Wellesley Ave charge related to LS or any of her housemates or her House (without their knowledge)then stalking/premeditation theory more sustainable?

ETA. Put crudely...could the Wellesley Ave charge be him wanking on LS doorstep
 
It has always niggled me about the burglary/voyeurism charges.

I have always PR was picked up due to his car, possibly due to some CCTV, being in the area. And that once they searched his house, they then found stuff.

They immediately charged him with voyeurism and burglary.

Well, okay, how did they know?

They seized his laptop/phone when they first arrested him looking for Libby, and found something else, possibly or possibly not connected to Libby.

Okay, but what in detail? I assumed he had taken video of himself, but I could only relate that to the incident at Wellesley.

So how did the Police know, as soon as they opened his life, that he had been burgling and voyeuring on his neighbours?

The full charges put to Pawel Relowicz were :

  • Between December 7 and December 10, 2017, you entered as a trespasser to a property in Raglan Street and stoke therein of a value unknown three vibrators
  • On January 19, 2019 you committed an act outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner by masturbating in a public place
  • Between December 1 and December 4, 2017, in Hull, namely Lambton Street, you entered as a trespasser and stoke therein a PlayStation 4 console, a controller and £25 in cash
  • Between January 25 and January 28, 2019, you entered as a trespasser in Ventnor Street and stole a computer laptop, a Kindle, a speaker, a quantity of sex toys, condoms, knickers and photographs
  • On January 23, 2018, in Estuary Street you observed another person doing a private act know that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification
Incidentally, I know of no Estuary Street in Hull??

How did they know these dates historically, going back 2 years? Did they fit him for burglaries previously reported? I wondered about someone having a theory that he knew an estate agent so was able to get some kind of key to these properties. Was he perhaps involved with planting mini cameras and bugging student houses? Just a thought... may or may not have any relevance, although Police have always stated ZERO relevance.

Why, if you had had a job for five years in Malton where the pay is not substantial, have a wife and child and another on the way, would you move house from York, a 30 min drive to work, to move to Hull to then endure an hour drive to work? I wonder whether the uncanny e-fit in York June 2017 influenced the move?

I suspect the police were already aware he may be a risk, however had underestimated to the extent. I presume his number plate registered under his name popped up this info on their system. I doubt they’ll tell us that tho!
 
Hi everyone. Interesting to read all of the views and local knowledge. Great website. As I’m unfamiliar with the area, could a local please explain the likelihood of this being a tragic accident, given the city’s extensive drain network, however small this likelihood might be?

Could this explain the lack of forensics or relevant charges to any individuals, the limited appeals for information, and the police’s focus on searching the waterways? Could an accident also match with reports of screams being heard?

Not ruling out anyone else’s theories but interested to know


Welcome, London 1776. You are in good company.
 
Im not sure SVS.

Maybe I'm stupid for even thinking another car could be involved to be honest.

At this point it is all still wild guesses I suppose.

My mind runs away with me ;)
No wasnt suggesting it crazy. Just that it might be the reason le asked.
 
No wasnt suggesting it crazy. Just that it might be the reason le asked.

It's a right mind puzzle isn't it.

Part of me thinks they have him bang to rights and are just piecing everything together before they charge him (why rush he is custody).

Another part of me thinks they have zilch.

But I feel if they had zilch that they would be releasing a lot more cctv and appealing for help.

The only reason for not doing that in my mind is that they don't need to.
 
Why, if you had had a job for five years in Malton where the pay is not substantial, have a wife and child and another on the way, would you move house from York, a 30 min drive to work, to move to Hull to then endure an hour drive to work? I wonder whether the uncanny e-fit in York June 2017 influenced the move?

I suspect the police were already aware he may be a risk, however had underestimated to the extent. I presume his number plate registered under his name popped up this info on their system. I doubt they’ll tell us that tho!

I would have thought the difference in rent would be substantial and could be a major motivation for moving. Having said that, seeing your mug appear in an e-fit might also do the trick!
 
Makes sense...

But I did wonder about the voyeurism charges. At first, I thought it may be only the streets to the front and back of his house, therefore he had been spying on them from his own window, possibly videoed which is how the Police caught him.

But these aren't the most ideal streets for voyeurism are they? You have to be right on the street, looking right into the house, very noticeable, even when sat in a car. Maybe he spotted it and filmed it on his phone as a random opportunity?
View attachment 170705

Or maybe the voyeurism charge is where the Police discovered via his laptop/phone that he had bugged that house with a secret camera? It is a stretch - but if he knew an estate agent, and was working with another person/a team to get camera bugs into student houses?

This was from 2011, when the technology was new.
Samokovareva finds hidden cameras in every room in her and Dzhambazova's apartment | Daily Mail Online

2017
Student horrified to find hidden CAMERA and microphone in women's loo

Shocked Student Finds Spy Camera Hidden Inside Travelodge Shower

It is stretching the length of the rabbit hole a bit, and is moving away from direct relevance to Libby's disappearance, and is just my whacko theory... up there with the trafficking theory.

But it would explain how he is not entirely acting alone, and may be involved in a much bigger and deeper gang, if this is something ran via the internet and joined with other locations around Europe?

All it would take (still a lot I know) would be to have some decent access within a small estate agents that deals exclusively with students.
There are a lot of letting agencies around the area as you will know Strontium. A lot dealing specifically in student lets.

Wasnt the welly cctv building a letting agency? The Polish (?) owner was v keen to help. He Seemed a little worried that he had to explain the delay in release of footage.
 
Hi everyone. Interesting to read all of the views and local knowledge. Great website. As I’m unfamiliar with the area, could a local please explain the likelihood of this being a tragic accident, given the city’s extensive drain network, however small this likelihood might be?

Could this explain the lack of forensics or relevant charges to any individuals, the limited appeals for information, and the police’s focus on searching the waterways? Could an accident also match with reports of screams being heard?

Not ruling out anyone else’s theories but interested to know

That has been discussed a fair bit - it's the length of time she's been missing. The Police have been to all the obvious places she could have stumbled/tripped. She appears to be DELIBERATELY HIDDEN.

And it's a decently long walk for someone staggering and falling from Beresford Avenue to the River. The drain would be the nearest place, but the Police have been up and down that in multiple boats in numbers from early on.

I think we can pretty much rule out that she has wandered off and fallen somewhere. The drain, and gardens have all been searched very high profile - getting residents to check outhouses, behind bins etc.
 
There are a lot of letting agencies around the area as you will know Strontium. A lot dealing specifically in student lets.

Wasnt the welly cctv building a letting agency? The Polish (?) owner was v keen to help. He Seemed a little worried that he had to explain the delay in release of footage.

I queried this and the answer was...He was just been super helpful.

But I thought if he just wanted to help why sell footage and then blatantly advertise his business by having a photo of him outside his shop plastered all over the daily mail.
 
I queried this and the answer was...He was just been super helpful.

The business owner Lukasz Rybus said: "I couldn't believe that we found her on our CCTV footage, I just want to help get this footage out in the public which shows her final movements before she disappeared. "I really hope she is found, so she can be back with her friends and family. I hope what was caught on my CCTV footage will help jog the public's memory.

But I thought if he just wanted to help why sell footage and then blatantly advertise his business by having a photo of him outside his shop plastered all over the daily mail.
Yes he's been nothing but helpful obviously. Not suggesting he is anything but genuine.

"I want the people of Hull to understand we just want to help. It was difficult at first because the time and date in the footage is incorrect and was showing up in March. "I was away at the weekend and the police came around for the CCTV footage this morning."
 
On the subject of whether or not (if P was involved) Libby’s abduction was pre-planned - I swing between spur of the moment/ opportunistic and pre-planned to an extent, as in had recently taken a particular interest in Libby. I also think there is a fair possibility someone else has been involved in concealing Libby.

One reason that I don’t think it was pre-planned is that P did not bother to remove evidence of burglaries, trespassing and voyeurism from his house in the 5 days he had prior to his arrest, and I feel that if he went to efforts to pre-plan an abduction then he would certainly hide anything incriminating in his house. Also, if it is P & Libby in CCTV, I’m sure the pre-planning would involve scoping out an abduction area that wasn’t directly in front of a CCTV camera.

IMO it’s more likely that there is secondary involvement in concealing Libby.
 
On the subject of whether or not (if P was involved) Libby’s abduction was pre-planned - I swing between spur of the moment/ opportunistic and pre-planned to an extent, as in had recently taken a particular interest in Libby. I also think there is a fair possibility someone else has been involved in concealing Libby.

One reason that I don’t think it was pre-planned is that P did not bother to remove evidence of burglaries, trespassing and voyeurism from his house in the 5 days he had prior to his arrest, and I feel that if he went to efforts to pre-plan an abduction then he would certainly hide anything incriminating in his house. Also, if it is P & Libby in CCTV, I’m sure the pre-planning would involve scoping out an abduction area that wasn’t directly in front of a CCTV camera.

IMO it’s more likely that there is secondary involvement in concealing Libby.
Im not convinced by others involvement if PR involved.

Im in the opportunistic camp for the reasons you state

Also, we dont know that items recovered from PR house are from any prev burglaries?
 
That has been discussed a fair bit - it's the length of time she's been missing. The Police have been to all the obvious places she could have stumbled/tripped. She appears to be DELIBERATELY HIDDEN.

And it's a decently long walk for someone staggering and falling from Beresford Avenue to the River. The drain would be the nearest place, but the Police have been up and down that in multiple boats in numbers from early on.

I think we can pretty much rule out that she has wandered off and fallen somewhere. The drain, and gardens have all been searched very high profile - getting residents to check outhouses, behind bins etc.
Catching up backwards again - sorry (ntsry)
The big question. +
Been outta touch as I dropped my phone i n a purdle. Bear wi' me thanks! :)
 
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