GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #68

[Thepoet]

Does NK have a new boyfriend? I haven’t been able to find any new updates on her. Are there any?

I haven't seen anything since the (bogus?) Witness Protection story!

 

[Only4Justice]

I looked back through your recent posts but am not sure I follow the conversation correctly, so here are some thoughts which may not properly relate—apologies if they don’t.

It’s correct that CW is a liar, and as Agent Tammy Lee told him, he’s a bad liar—which is why we are so certain he has lied. Yes, she told him that as part of her interrogation strategy, but it’s also evident to most of the public.

So the interviewers, and we along with them, may be able to sift truth from lies again in this new interview, if he continues to lie.

There’s only a small amount of information missing. The most important, I think, for the public anyway, is the exact timing of the murders, and details about his methods. He could tell this in a tiny amount of time and the “what” aspects would be pretty fleshed out. Any extra details would be great. The interview lasted several hours, so maybe we will learn quite a bit.

The other missing piece is his motive, and his overall reasoning about how he planned the murders, and his reactions along the way, and how he thought he could get away with the crimes. I think if he is going to lie, this area is where he has both the most latitude and may believe he has the most to gain from lying.

After all, only he knows what was going on in his head, and it may be that even if he tells the truth as he knows it, he may have had to work hard to get any meaningful inkling of why he did something so senseless and cruel. He may have tried to cast things in his own thoughts to make himself feel better. And I’m not sure how much insight he has. He also has a small opportunity for reputation management here, although imo the best thing he could do for his reputation is not to try to save face at all—say what he did, say what he does understand about his motivation, and say it was wrong and vicious and his victims were all totally innocent and could never have done anything to deserve this.

I’m also assuming that if this were just a pack of lies, the interviewers might not release it. However, maybe it would have gotten out that they had interviewed him (visitor logs? witnesses?) and the information could have been requested via the FOIA. That’s not my area of expertise at all as I’m not a journalist.

I do know that lies and secrets are difficult for most people to handle. If CW is a complete psychopath, maybe this is not a problem for him. I’ve been quick to conclude that someone who can murder their family, and bury their wife facedown in the dirt, and drop their little girls’ bodies in oil must be psychopathic, because it shows an utterly cold, unaffected psyche I can’t personally fathom.

But maybe there are some dimensions to his mind that have led him to feel some stress about the lies and about holding on to his secrets. Or maybe he just wants attention and knows that being primarily truthful and giving up valuable information is the best way to get that attention, and maybe even more contact in future.

He has only his dad contacting him now, sounds like, which might also put him in a sort of emotionally regressed state in which he’s been a “bad boy” and needs to tell what he did so he can come out of his room. Except he’s never really getting out of that room, but still.

All my own total speculation and opinion above.

Thanks great post.

 

[Thepoet]

I’m certain the investigators that spoke with him wanted to be able to brief the Rzucek family before the report came out. I think they waited to make the announcement until after the Rzuceks were fully briefed, perhaps in person in North Carolina. And the announcement was made very shortly thereafter. Also wouldn’t be surprised if the investigators reached out directly to some media contacts first so they could file the CORA, perhaps even at the Rzucek family’s request. I’m sure the family wants any doubters left to know exactly what was said in that interview.

Bravo! Well said and I certainly hope you're right!

 

[Doghairrules]

Is it wrong that I’m hoping NK is sweating what this interview is about? Her lover lied soooo much about Shanann. It would be super fun for the tables to be turned on NK. Moo

 

[molly1255]

I think it will be a meaningful drop of information both because LE has essentially confirmed that by stating additional information was obtained but also because of the rumblings online from Watts family insiders. I won't go into detail because I can't cite them as sources but it leads me to speculate that CW is continuing his gas lighting of his family (and by extension, followers). How do they not see that he must have gas lighted SW as well? I believe the Watts family will continue to be confused, per CW's plan, after this drops even if he credibly admits to everything in detail - because while I think they will claim he never told them the contents of the interview in advance they will believe things that could only come from him like he was ambushed by this visit, didn't know he was being recorded, was told it was for other reasons he was speaking to them, and other weak excuses like they plied him with the sounds of friendship and special food treats. I said many months ago that supporters of his often ironically don't give him enough credit - while accusing SW of doing the same thing - by speaking of him like he must have a diminished mental capacity. One thing I learned by watching those LE interviews of him - he may not be the sharpest tack in the toolbox, but he was no dummy. He wove his lies as best he could and manipulated as much as he could. Some of it would even have been relatively believable if the evidence didn't indicate otherwise or if we hadn't just witnessed him being as convincing while he was lying a few minutes prior. He comes across as highly manipulative to me. I believe he has manipulated his family (and I don't mean to exonerate their behavior) for the entirety of his relationship with SW - playing the hapless victim and man in the middle to his advantage for sympathy. If they allow it, he will continue to do so for all time. MOO.

I believe you have hit the nail on the head and I agree with everything you've stated.

 

[Colorado303]

Bravo! Well said and I certainly hope you're right!

I’m right. (insert smiley wink emoji here)

 

[msphilosopher]

Maybe this is a minority opinion here... but there's a large part of me that does not want to know what this empty shell of a human has left to say.

The mountains of evidence and endless speculation this case has produced is so exhausting and gut wrenching. Sometimes not knowing every.single.excruciating detail is for the best... IMO.

I think the only thing left I care to know is whether or not the murders were premeditated. I never believed he "just snapped", I felt it was planned.

I used to want to know the order of the murders, whether the victims witnessed any of the deaths, and whether Shanann knew her babies were dead/going to die before she was killed. I no longer want to know these things.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Maybe this is a minority opinion here... but there's a large part of me that does not want to know what this empty shell of a human has left to say.

The mountains of evidence and endless speculation this case has produced is so exhausting and gut wrenching. Sometimes not knowing every.single.excruciating detail is for the best... IMO.

I think the only thing left I care to know is whether or not the murders were premeditated. I never believed he "just snapped", I felt it was planned.

I used to want to know the order of the murders, whether the victims witnessed any of the deaths, and whether Shanann knew her babies were dead/going to die before she was killed. I no longer want to know these things.

I admire your viewpoint. Unfortunately, I'm not that evolved. Following this case so closely, I just want to know what happened, and I agree it is a bit morbid. I'm hoping it brings me closer to making sense of the whole thing - I am most interested in knowing his innermost thoughts leading up to, during, and afterward...but I know it is unlikely we can believe that part of what he might say. Drawn to the case because it was so easy to get to know this family via FB and because such a seemingly normal and beloved man went so far off the deep end of humanity, I guess I want to know what happened and why. Can't help it. I just hope it is not too painful for all of us, and most of all SW's family and friends.

I find myself almost as interested in understanding the CW blind fans. Most people can't stand to read what they think, and I have just been fascinated while also finding it utterly disheartening sometimes!

 

[msphilosopher]

I admire your viewpoint. Unfortunately, I'm not that evolved. Following this case so closely, I just want to know what happened, and I agree it is a bit morbid. I'm hoping it brings me closer to making sense of the whole thing - I am most interested in knowing his innermost thoughts leading up to, during, and afterward...but I know it is unlikely we can believe that part of what he might say. Drawn to the case because it was so easy to get to know this family via FB and because such a seemingly normal and beloved man went so far off the deep end of humanity, I guess I want to know what happened and why. Can't help it. I just hope it is not too painful for all of us, and most of all SW's family and friends.

I find myself almost as interested in understanding the CW blind fans. Most people can't stand to read what they think, and I have just been fascinated while also finding it utterly disheartening sometimes!

Yup, I completely understand. There's a small part of me that wants to know more as well... but the larger part doesn't. My curiosity will probably get the best of me but I'll be dreading it the whole time.

In my opinion, we already know what happened and why.

It just seems so pointless. Even if he gives a full detailed account of every little detail of what happened, the source is a pathological liar. So we'll still be left discussing whether or not what he said is true... unless they release physical evidence to corroborate whatever he says..

Anyway, I really don't care what he says. That's where I'm at and probably a minority opinion here.

 

[they'll get you]

IMO unless someone else is involved there is nothing more we should give that murderer.

I’ve spoken about an Australian mass shooting where the murderer relished any news about his crime, he read papers and asked the wardens what the outside was saying about him and that’s why we do not utter his name any more. He will rot in his cell for the rest of his life and we as a nation will never give him the notoriety he craved.

This is what murderers deserve....NOTHING no book deals, no 60 Minutes interviews just let them wither into nothingness.
CW showed a strange excitement when he was giving those interviews on his porch and is this what he’s craving? He too deserves nothingness now.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I generally avoid YouTube videos on this case like the plague, since so many provide false information and sensationalize the case like its all for entertainment rather than real peoples lives.

But I did watch one today by a retired NYPD Detective of 22 years that made me think more about this interview, and NK.

He said there’s no way they went up there just for a chat. It would have had a real purpose. CW’s case is done, he’s never getting out of prison (sorry to disappoint his fans, there’s no coercion, there will be no reduction in his sentence, it’s over, he’s never going home). So that leaves something else.

One thing he mentioned is what struck me the most, because it had left me scratching my head at the time. It’s when the DA indicated he wasn’t too happy with NK, saying that her deletion of messages and emails slowed or hindered the investigation. This detective said it’s not uncommon for LE to participate in some deception (perfectly legal) in order to make someone feel comfortable, or feel that they may have gotten away with something. This could be one example, because there is NO WAY those messages and emails were not retrievable. They most definitely had/have them all.

You would need to be a high tech hacker with special equipment to truly wipe a phone clean. Restoring to factory settings, deleting, erasing, whatever - it’s all still there, and they will get it. Every message, every search - everything. So why say that, except to make NK think “phew! They’ll never see them”?

And now they’re up there interviewing CW, whose case is done and dusted. There’s no legal out for him. But perhaps he sits there day in and day out, thinking why am I here and she is not?

NK was always a bit of a non entity to me, just a generic mistress. But, the KB case shows us what a mistress is capable of, even when she’s not the instigator.

I know lots of people have thought NK was involved all along, but I’ve honestly never really considered it. Yet now it feels like the only thing that could fit with this latest interview. I just can’t think what else it’s all about.

People also wondered why they released certain embarrassing information about her when it didn’t seem necessary. Perhaps this too was considered and deliberate.

CW himself wouldn’t make a credible or reliable witness. But if he’s able to point them to physical or other substantial evidence of someone else’s involvement, it would be well worth their time going up there.

Just pondering, all IMO. So many twists and turns, even when you think it’s all over

 

[Gardenista]

I generally avoid YouTube videos on this case like the plague, since so many provide false information and sensationalize the case like its all for entertainment rather than real peoples lives.

But I did watch one today by a retired NYPD Detective of 22 years that made me think more about this interview, and NK.

He said there’s no way they went up there just for a chat. It would have had a real purpose. CW’s case is done, he’s never getting out of prison (sorry to disappoint his fans, there’s no coercion, there will be no reduction in his sentence, it’s over, he’s never going home). So that leaves something else.

One thing he mentioned is what struck me the most, because it had left me scratching my head at the time. It’s when the DA indicated he wasn’t too happy with NK, saying that her deletion of messages and emails slowed or hindered the investigation. This detective said it’s not uncommon for LE to participate in some deception (perfectly legal) in order to make someone feel comfortable, or feel that they may have gotten away with something. This could be one example, because there is NO WAY those messages and emails were not retrievable. They most definitely had/have them all.

You would need to be a high tech hacker with special equipment to truly wipe a phone clean. Restoring to factory settings, deleting, erasing, whatever - it’s all still there, and they will get it. Every message, every search - everything. So why say that, except to make NK think “phew! They’ll never see them”?

And now they’re up there interviewing CW, whose case is done and dusted. There’s no legal out for him. But perhaps he sits there day in and day out, thinking why am I here and she is not?

NK was always a bit of a non entity to me, just a generic mistress. But, the KB case shows us what a mistress is capable of, even when she’s not the instigator.

I know lots of people have thought NK was involved all along, but I’ve honestly never really considered it. Yet now it feels like the only thing that could fit with this latest interview. I just can’t think what else it’s all about.

People also wondered why they released certain embarrassing information about her when it didn’t seem necessary. Perhaps this too was considered and deliberate.

CW himself wouldn’t make a credible or reliable witness. But if he’s able to point them to physical or other substantial evidence of someone else’s involvement, it would be well worth their time going up there.

Just pondering, all IMO. So many twists and turns, even when you think it’s all over

Great post. One thing, though, is that LE might use CW to testify against NK. This is what happened in the Mike Williams murder. Mike's BFF was the one who actually pulled the trigger at the behest of Mike's wife (actually, they both planned it). Mike's BFF eventually admitted he did it and Mike's wife went on trial, was convicted and got life in prison. IIRC, BFF who was the actual murderer will get out in 20 years.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Hi My loves, so based on this new info coming forward I've been looking into it and I do believe that the investigators are going to expose something either they found or maybe something wants to come forward with and they have reason to believe maybe he's telling the truth now but also I'm wondering there was factual evidence and Shanann's! family was warned about what was going to come out and they were thinking about their,"next steps" as was stated by their attorney. So what would be their next steps that they are responding to New Evidence about their son-in-law or new evidence that was found in the marital home that is going to be auctioned off next month or new evidence that this that found God and the Bible is stating as his truth? I'm sure we all feel the same like that we are wondering why so many different law enforcement agencies went and met with him??

 

[Tigerlily75]

Great post. One thing, though, is that LE might use CW to testify against NK. This is what happened in the Mike Williams murder. Mike's BFF was the one who actually pulled the trigger at the behest of Mike's wife (actually, they both planned it). Mike's BFF eventually admitted he did it and Mike's wife went on trial, was convicted and got life in prison. IIRC, BFF who was the actual murderer will get out in 20 years.

Yes true, I think what I meant is that his word alone might not be enough for them, they might want other evidence to prove it in court, before they make a move. They may have known all along that someone else was involved, but just don’t (or didn’t) have enough to prove it. Maybe now they do. All just speculation of course!

In the Gerard Baden-Clay case, it’s pretty much considered a given in wide circles that he had help, most likely from his father. But, unfortunately it can’t be proven to a conviction standard.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Hi My loves, so based on this new info coming forward I've been looking into it and I do believe that the investigators are going to expose something either they found or maybe something wants to come forward with and they have reason to believe maybe he's telling the truth now but also I'm wondering there was factual evidence and Shanann's! family was warned about what was going to come out and they were thinking about their,"next steps" as was stated by their attorney. So what would be their next steps that they are responding to New Evidence about their son-in-law or new evidence that was found in the marital home that is going to be auctioned off next month or new evidence that this that found God and the Bible is stating as his truth? I'm sure we all feel the same like that we are wondering why so many different law enforcement agencies went and met with him??

Hi My loves, so based on this new info coming forward I've been looking into it and I do believe that the investigators are going to expose something either they found or maybe something wants to come forward with and they have reason to believe maybe he's telling the truth now but also I'm wondering there was factual evidence and Shanann's! family was warned about what was going to come out and they were thinking about their,"next steps" as was stated by their attorney. So what would be their next steps that they are responding to New Evidence about their son-in-law or new evidence that was found in the marital home that is going to be auctioned off next month or new evidence that this that found God and the Bible is stating as his truth? I'm sure we all feel the same like that we are wondering why so many different law enforcement agencies went and met with him??

 

[Noreen McGurl]

I definitely do not think that the FBI CBI and the local police would meet with him unless it was something that they had corroborated with him or evidence that they wanted to question him about, I do not think that it was him requesting the meeting because he wanted to clear his conscience like some people think and if that was the case reporters would have been there or whatever but it would not be undercover with all those law enforcement agencies something is going to be exposed on Thursday

 

[Tigerlily75]

I definitely do not think that the FBI CBI and the local police would meet with him unless it was something that they had corroborated with him or evidence that they wanted to question him about, I do not think that it was him requesting the meeting because he wanted to clear his conscience like some people think and if that was the case reporters would have been there or whatever but it would not be undercover with all those law enforcement agencies something is going to be exposed on Thursday

Yes, when a convicted criminal wants to do a tell-all, it’s usually with a journalist of some description.

He surely has something these agencies need. They didn’t go there just to listen to the ramblings of a convicted liar who found God, he’d actually have to have something worth their time IMO

 

[Noreen McGurl]

I definitely do not think that the FBI CBI and the local police would meet with him unless it was something that they had corroborated with him or evidence that they wanted to question him about, I do not think that it was him requesting the meeting because he wanted to clear his conscience like some people think and if that was the case reporters would have been there or whatever but it would not be undercover with all those law enforcement agencies something is going to be exposed on Thursday

I am not speculating IMO, I am reiterating quotes and I am also stating fact that the three law agencies will not go there because he wanted to clear his conscience something is definitely going to be uncovered on Thursday and maybe something that people have been speculating about or maybe just something that le wants closure on why this horrific nightmare,but there was definitely something that made three different law enforcement agencies go there and meet with him and he did not disclose it to his family, but afterwards it was disclosed to Shanann's family and they are contemplating their "next steps"

 

[mrjitty]

NK isn't getting prosecuted guys

I guess that conspiracy just won't die

 

[Best of What's Around]

NK isn't getting prosecuted guys

I guess that conspiracy just won't die

I have to agree...if this new interview was about credibly pulling anyone else into this crime or any other for that matter, I can’t fathom it would be going public...it would be part of a new or reopened investigation. Things might leak...but recordings and reports wouldn’t be officially available for public consumption anytime soon like this.