CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[SandyQLS]

Well, I don't think it's the rolls that are the evidence, but what I'm trying to figure out is whether it's the piece of evidence with the DNA that is the concern, or is it just the sample of biological material they retrieve from the piece of evidence that can't be retested. If it's a tiny piece of material than it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to test it again. Imo

It's the sample of biological material that will be consumed, not the object itself. It is likely microscopic. There may not even be anything at all, but if there is, they only get one shot at retrieving it. JMO, JMunderstanding

 

[Artis]

If he was just burning clothes, why use a black plastic tote? Garbage bags would have sufficed, and why bother going to such lengths (Nash Ranch/tractor) to hide secondary evidence. As well, he wouldn't have needed 5 gallons of gasoline and oil to burn clothing, a baseball bat and other items. I 100% believe KB's body was in that tote. I believe the cadaver dogs hit on the bail of hay it was sitting on. As most of us know, these hard plastic totes can crack and perhaps it got a hole or crack while being transported or lifted by the forks of the tractor. Even if it didn't break and leak body fluid, plastic absorbs odours extremely well and a dead body gives off a distinct odour. Something made those dogs react to that bale of hay.
ed:sp

I sure don't know what to believe but what you said about the tote is exactly why he'd burn it. A body will decompose, plastic doesn't.

 

[LietKynes]

Marking my spot .
Will need to catch up. some excellent posts and theories.
Still no remains found ?
(What a disgusting and disrespectful way to get your loved one returned to you.)
My thoughts are with the Berreth family.

Assuming here that PF's protective mommy dearest is still 'mum' ? Apologies for the pun...couldn't resist.

 

[Artis]

The burn ring is visible in the KOAA TV drone wideo of PF's ranch taken December 14th, and that exact trough, or one of the others that he had just like it, is also visible. It was of similar construction to this sales page:
Hastings 22GA Steel Round Stock Tank - 3' x 2' - 101 Gallon
The burn spot was the faint round ring below the point of the arrow in this still shot from the KOAA drone video:

He must have gotten rid of the trough because it would clearly show it had had a fire in it.

 

[Dave F.]

He must have gotten rid of the trough because it would clearly show it had had a fire in it.

Not necessarily. Galvanized steel doesn't discolor by a single fire, and the black soot can actually be brushed away with a stiff corn broom. However, a hot fire will break the bond of the zinc to steel, and over time will cause serious rust.
There are experts on galvanizing, but they normally test hot dip galvanized products. Stock tanks are electro-galvanized. The process is way cheaper, and not subject to near as much testing. With the plastic balls in the dirt ring as evidence, and obvious duplicates laying around the PF ranch, I'm not really seeing why finding that exact tank would be important.
IMO

 

[enelram]

Not necessarily. Galvanized steel doesn't discolor by a single fire, and the black soot can actually be brushed away with a stiff corn broom. However, a hot fire will break the bond of the zinc to steel, and over time will cause serious rust.
There are experts on galvanizing, but they normally test hot dip galvanized products. Stock tanks are electro-galvanized. The process is way cheaper, and not subject to near as much testing. With the plastic balls in the dirt ring as evidence, and obvious duplicates laying around the PF ranch, I'm not really seeing why finding that exact tank would be important.
IMO

Oh Dave, you're just too darned smart. Please tell us something of your background since I'M VERY CURIOUS.
Sorry, hoping this isn't invading you privacy but you not only
have great sleuthing/fact gathering abilities but also general
IQ which is uncommon these days (except on WS, of course).

 

[Artis]

The 3 foot tank would not hold a lot of wood but old drain oil would make for a much hotter fire. All round tanks have a drain plug in the bottom. Some are made of plastic and would rapidly burn and leak. In any event the bottom is 20 gauge steel which you can flex with your hand. There is also a cheaply welded seem in the middle of the tank with some coating over it to help prevent water leakage not fire. I think their would be an abundance of evidence around the burn site using this type of tank which is a standard Galvanized stock tank.

Some thoughts on the fire:

My husband deep fries fish and then uses the oil to start camp fires. It's a great fire starter.

I've seen video from the Camp Fire (Paradise, CA) where people caught in their cars were nothing but skeletal remains so in a hot enough fire, the soft tissue burns pretty fast.

The cars in the Camp Fire, while steel, were obviously burned. The metal looks scorched black or even turns kind of white-ish. Either PF got rid of that trough or the cops took it. Haven't seen anything indicating the latter but don't know if we would, at this point. If he had a big fire in that thing, burning for a few hours, the metal would be fried. Where is that trough?

 

[Dave F.]

Another bit of data that makes zero sense to me: KK took the metal rod back to the ranchette and left it by the gate, IIRC.

??? OK, for someone who is driving 800 miles roundtrip to see her guy, I guess an extra round trip from WP to the ranchette is nothing, but why did she return the metal rod? There was no 'evidence' on it because she hadn't used it.

My concept of "metal rod" sufficient to murder with is a 3 ft long chunk of No. 10 rebar. Ranchers commonly use rebar for everything from stakes to pry bars, and it's one of the few American made products left. Every length of it in the West comes from the Nucor plants at Tremonton, Utah. It's hard to keep in a car. You can't really place it on a seat and on any floor it rolls. You can't just toss it is a dumpster, because the clang will instantly attract attention. A five foot three hefty woman would have a hard time pitching it into a deep gorge, even if she used an Olympic hammer throw style delivery. Best bet = leave it a the gate and let Ma find it. IMO
#10 Rebar - #10 Reinforcing Bar | Harris Supply Solutions

 

[Reachingfornettles]

Some thoughts on the fire:

My husband deep fries fish and then uses the oil to start camp fires. It's a great fire starter.

I've seen video from the Camp Fire (Paradise, CA) where people caught in their cars were nothing but skeletal remains so in a hot enough fire, the soft tissue burns pretty fast.

The cars in the Camp Fire, while steel, were obviously burned. The metal looks scorched black or even turns kind of white-ish. Either PF got rid of that trough or the cops took it. Haven't seen anything indicating the latter but don't know if we would, at this point. If he had a big fire in that thing, burning for a few hours, the metal would be fried. Where is that trough?

PF did a favors for Neighbors. There's a lot of land out there and some of people are older ... makes you wonder if they even know what's on their land when somebody else is tending to it.JMO

 

[justaparent]

I'm in the he pleads not guilty camp and I hope that KK's testimony enrages him so much that he disregards atty advice and demands to testify.

An outburst in court might help reveal his true character, but he seems to be masking his feelings.. so far. That might change when testimony kicks in.

He’s a pretty cold person though and it may take a bit for him to act out. I know others have seen evidence of it in the past. I personally believe he was very cold and calculating at first during the actual crime but may have lost it as the beating progressed (if the reports of the method used are true).

A desire to have someone else commit the murder... he wanted KK to be responsible for the actual act. A cold and calculating coward, but not terribly bright.

I will always believe the plan was devised by the two of them and that her agreed upon testimony omits most info and includes a heaping dose of BS.

JMO

 

[CDB]

The question is, whether the ladder would keep the weight of 200 lbs plus 110 lbs (for example) off on each of it's rungs?

I use contractor ladders commonly available at home goods stores. The type IA is rated at 300lbs, type IAA is rated at 375. So the ladder could certainly handle the loads.

When i was doing contracting work we would often haul heavy loads up ladders and I am not small, but certainly not muscular looking. For what it is worth, standard square bales of hay weigh between 50 and 100 lbs.

Werner 8 ft. Fiberglass Contractor JobStation Step Ladder with 375 lb. Load Capacity Type IAA Duty Rating-OBCN08 - The Home Depot

 

[oviedo]

I would like to know the phone data from Dec 4-21 between all the parties. I hope those warrants include this - JMO

 

[Artis]

Yes, it sure does look like a gunshot hole or two in the sides. If they ever used the tanks to burn anything you would want some side airflow to get into the tank.

When I am not burning in my open fire pit and just have a few limbs to burn, then I use a much smaller 55 gallon drum and I have about 15 bullet holes all around the drum at various heights starting near the bottom. You need good side airflow to help the fire stay lit and get a good burn.

The reason a gun is used to shoot holes in the drum is it is much quicker and easier to get holes in a drum or tank like that. I tried using a drill on my 55 gallon drum and the metal was way too thick to drill through. Those larger galvanized tanks are probably not as thick but still it is so much quicker to just blast some holes in them.

Kind of an aside but do you burn in a container because of wildfire danger? We have fires in our yard all the time and they're on the ground (camp fire style) but I live in Michigan so it's rarely very dry.

 

[Artis]

An outburst in court might help reveal his true character, but he seems to be masking his feelings.. so far. That might change when testimony kicks in.

He’s a pretty cold person though and it may take a bit for him to act out. I know others have seen evidence of it in the past. I personally believe he was very cold and calculating at first during the actual crime but may have lost it as the beating progressed (if the reports of the method used are true).

A desire to have someone else commit the murder... he wanted KK to be responsible for the actual act. A cold and calculating coward, but not terribly bright.

I will always believe the plan was devised by the two of them and that her agreed upon testimony omits most info and includes a heaping dose of BS.

JMO

I actually don't think he's cold. I think he's a hothead who loses his sh** when his anger boils over. There are witnesses to his rage and blow ups.

Never under estimate the desire for revenge. IMO, his ship is already sunk. Once he realizes that, during his trial, he may say screw it and demand to testify to try and take KK down with him.

We keep operating under the assumption that it was he who initiated the plot to kill Kelsey but that comes from KK. Until I see proof of that, I'm not believing it. From what I see, she's the manipulator. My take is he controls by his aggression. She's the one with the flying monkeys who went out there and made excuses for her atrocious behavior. That says manipulator to me. For all I know, she wanted Kelsey dead (she sure behaved like it) and egged him on to do it. I see her as the narc and they are very good at provoking rage in others. As mad he was all of the time, that would have been easy.

 

[Artis]

I would like to know the phone data from Dec 4-21 between all the parties. I hope those warrants include this - JMO

Same here. I'd like it even better if they got recorded but I don't think warrants were issued for that. I would have requested it.

 

[susiQ]

I actually don't think he's cold. I think he's a hothead who loses his sh** when his anger boils over. There are witnesses to his rage and blow ups.

Never under estimate the desire for revenge. IMO, his ship is already sunk. Once he realizes that, during his trial, he may say screw it and demand to testify to try and take KK down with him.

We keep operating under the assumption that it was he who initiated the plot to kill Kelsey but that comes from KK. Until I see proof of that, I'm not believing it. From what I see, she's the manipulator. My take is he controls by his aggression. She's the one with the flying monkeys who went out there and made excuses for her atrocious behavior. That says manipulator to me. For all I know, she wanted Kelsey dead (she sure behaved like it) and egged him on to do it. I see her as the narc and they are very good at provoking rage in others. As mad he was all of the time, that would have been easy.

Respectfully, I don't see him "losing it" in court, ever. He may let loose around the people he has control over in his mundane life, or rather former life, but his bad temper and aggression won't serve him well in a court of law. He may be stupid but I'm sure he knows that won't get him anywhere. He will derive plenty enough pleasure watching someone like his much smarter attorney dismantle KK for everyone to see. THAT, is his revenge. I can hardly wait!

 

[ajaylee]

I actually don't think he's cold. I think he's a hothead who loses his sh** when his anger boils over. There are witnesses to his rage and blow ups.

Never under estimate the desire for revenge. IMO, his ship is already sunk. Once he realizes that, during his trial, he may say screw it and demand to testify to try and take KK down with him.

We keep operating under the assumption that it was he who initiated the plot to kill Kelsey but that comes from KK. Until I see proof of that, I'm not believing it. From what I see, she's the manipulator. My take is he controls by his aggression. She's the one with the flying monkeys who went out there and made excuses for her atrocious behavior. That says manipulator to me. For all I know, she wanted Kelsey dead (she sure behaved like it) and egged him on to do it. I see her as the narc and they are very good at provoking rage in others. As mad he was all of the time, that would have been easy.

I think SF is going to have a hard time with KK's testimony. I'd be very surprised if anything PF has told her remotely resembles KK's account of events. I wouldn't be surprised if she wants PF to speak out and 'clear the record' at trial. From her viewpoint, I think it's going to appear that PF is a victim of being too attractive to the wrong kind of women.

 

[Sanz]

Kind of an aside but do you burn in a container because of wildfire danger? We have fires in our yard all the time and they're on the ground (camp fire style) but I live in Michigan so it's rarely very dry.

In Washington State Burning in a burn barrel is illegal. Outdoor burning is illegal in all urban growth areas. People who don't live in an urban growth area can burn yard waste (like leaves, grass, brush and other yard trimmings) as long as their smoke doesn't impact neighbors.

Washington State Department of Ecology - Report burning and air quality issues

This link provides restrictions for agricultural burns also.

 

[PommyMommy]

Judge orders search warrants released in killing of Woodland Park mom
A judge ordered Monday the release of nearly two dozen search warrants issued in the case of a Florissant rancher accused of bludgeoning Woodland Park mother Kelsey Berreth and later burning her body.

Some of the 22 warrants to be made public this week detail records from Verizon, Google and Facebook — an electronic trail used by investigators to bolster first-degree murder charges against Berreth’s one-time fiance, Patrick Frazee.

[...]

In ruling that the warrants be released, 4th Judicial District Judge Scott Sells granted a motion filed by media outlets, arguing they were public records under the law.

The judge saw little potential to harm the investigation, saying much of their contents had been described in court at Frazee’s evidentiary hearing. The search documents detail why investigators believe they will find evidence of a crime and include reports on what was found.

[...]

The judge denied a similar motion, also filed by a media outlet, asking that exhibits from the preliminary hearing be made public.

That material included an audio file of Frazee’s interview with Woodland Park police after Berreth’s Nov. 22 disappearance, photos of a Fremont County barn where investigators say her body was temporarily stored, and a map of Frazee’s property, among other exhibits.

Sells raised concerns that the audio file could be edited and distributed, potentially affecting Frazee’s right to a fair trial. The judge noted that the photographs were not shown in open court but strictly shared with the judge.

 

[Artis]

Respectfully, I don't see him "losing it" in court, ever. He may let loose around the people he has control over in his mundane life, or rather former life, but his bad temper and aggression won't serve him well in a court of law. He may be stupid but I'm sure he knows that won't get him anywhere. He will derive plenty enough pleasure watching someone like his much smarter attorney dismantle KK for everyone to see. THAT, is his revenge. I can hardly wait!

I don't mean lose it as in yelling and jumping over the witness box to strangle her (though, I'm sure, he'll want to). I mean seeing there's no way out for him so he testifies, out of revenge, to destroy her in any way he can. At this stage of the game, he may think he has a prayer of getting off but, I think, at trial, he will be quickly disabused of that notion. Granted, this is my dream scenario, lol.