CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[yawningreyhound]

I do understand his point, they were coming in nearly a week later into an unknown situation with a missing person. In hindsight, even if they had noticed a drop of blood around a toilet, it might not have raised any alarms, to be indelicate it can happen in a bathroom used by a female at certain times of the month. But I also think they should have checked things more thoroughly and it's just lucky the family noticed it when they did. It's a learning curve for LE as well as family's of missing people, because if that had been any other family they might have assumed LE had noticed it or that it wasn't of any consequence.

It's funny, I've asked this question so many times: Didn't they Luminol right away? I was convinced they HAD and hence the stilted plea from Cheryl--because they KNEW there was foul play--and all the other closedmouthed activities? I was SOOOOO disappointed to find out, that in this day and age of murderous spouses, Luminol wasn't de regeuer on DAY #1, Minute #1. I hope this was a lesson for LE everywhere. Even when everything looks great, if there's a missing woman in a wonky relationship, Luminol the darn place. (or missing man, for that matter; or missing child...)

 

[Julia966]

Yeah, I think it’s clear in everyone’s mind now that KK was the driving force here. That’s why PF told her she had a mess to clean up.

Not clear to me at all. In fact, I doubt it. JMO, of course, but the evidence doesn't read that way to me.

 

[Kapua]

It appears as though they are doing some cleaning or repairs on KB townhouse. I have new photos but will have to wait til I am on my CPU to upload

Thanks so much for being our boots on the ground! It appears that LE tore the place up looking for evidence. Now the family will want to sell it. It must be hard to resell a property at which a murder occurred.

 

[Kapua]

It's funny, I've asked this question so many times: Didn't they Luminol right away? I was convinced they HAD and hence the stilted plea from Cheryl--because they KNEW there was foul play--and all the other closedmouthed activities? I was SOOOOO disappointed to find out, that in this day and age of murderous spouses, Luminol wasn't de regeuer on DAY #1, Minute #1. I hope this was a lesson for LE everywhere. Even when everything looks great, if there's a missing woman in a wonky relationship, Luminol the darn place. (or missing man, for that matter; or missing child...)

Someone earlier suggested that it may have been a matter of procedure - that LE needed to secure a search warrant for KB's condo, and for that, they needed to establish probable cause. MOO

 

[Julia966]

Thanks so much for being our boots on the ground! It appears that LE tore the place up looking for evidence. Now the family will want to sell it. It must be hard to resell a property at which a murder occurred.

Yeah, I think they tore the floor boards up.

 

[MsBetsy]

Not clear to me at all. In fact, I doubt it. JMO, of course, but the evidence doesn't read that way to me.

Yes, I don't think PF would have it any other way other than to be in charge. I can't imagine him taking orders from anyone, let alone a woman.
When his mother came out on the porch to see what was going on when the fire got so high, I can imagine him saying, " Go back to bed," or "Get back in the house."
People like PF are more likely to bark orders, rather than asking someone to do something. Imo

 

[GordianKnot]

It's funny, I've asked this question so many times: Didn't they Luminol right away? I was convinced they HAD and hence the stilted plea from Cheryl--because they KNEW there was foul play--and all the other closedmouthed activities? I was SOOOOO disappointed to find out, that in this day and age of murderous spouses, Luminol wasn't de regeuer on DAY #1, Minute #1. I hope this was a lesson for LE everywhere. Even when everything looks great, if there's a missing woman in a wonky relationship, Luminol the darn place. (or missing man, for that matter; or missing child...)

Unfortunately, it's even a little worse than that. Per MSM reports, KB's parents were the ones who found what they suspected to be blood visible in different locations at her townhome.

KB's parents then alerted LE to their concerns r/t suspected blood having been found....this after LE had already done a check of KB's place and found nothing amiss.

So, it wouldn't even have required Luminol to see that there was some potential blood evidence that was concerning. At least, it didn't take Luminol for KB's parents to see evidence of foul play, i.e, suspected blood, and to sound the alarm.

This really was an unfortunate oversight on LE's part. Any time a responsible, stable parent to an infant child goes missing leaving their infant behind, LE should treat that disappearance as suspicious and proceed w/ their investigation accordingly.

All of the Above: JMO.

 

[Mom24]

Yes, but there would still be more remaining with this method, such as bone fragments or even intact bones. Imo

It depends on a lot of factors, there may be bone fragments, even intact bones, but the point is that it doesn't take a crematorium method to reduce a body to ash. Funeral pyres are not crematoriums, and they do the job quite completely. When excavating burial mounds it's surprising how little bone is found in intact cremation urns. Now sometimes there are fragments, and some of any remaining bone may have been taken by people as remembrances, but funeral pyres do a complete job and they are open air using just wood. When you add an accelerant the whole thing burns at higher temps at an accelerated rate.
For example, we've all cooked over an open flame. How long does it take to cook a steak to well done? Now take that steak, put it in a trough, poor some gasoline on it and light it, how long before it's cooked to the same wellness?
Cookies are a different thing, since baking is different from roasting. When you cook meat in an oven, that's roasting. When you bake cookies, the process is different which is why it's so hard to bake cookies over an open fire without being wrapped in tinfoil. You can fry meat on a frying pan, but it's hard to get the same results when you put cookie dough on a frying pan. That's because meat is roasted, while cookies are baked. Roasting is taking a something that has a solid structure and cooking it, baking is taking something that has a liquid structure (cookie, cake, bread etc) and making it a solid structure. When you're cooking something with a liquid structure it requires a different method to make that change to a solid structure.

 

[Mom24]

It's funny, I've asked this question so many times: Didn't they Luminol right away? I was convinced they HAD and hence the stilted plea from Cheryl--because they KNEW there was foul play--and all the other closedmouthed activities? I was SOOOOO disappointed to find out, that in this day and age of murderous spouses, Luminol wasn't de regeuer on DAY #1, Minute #1. I hope this was a lesson for LE everywhere. Even when everything looks great, if there's a missing woman in a wonky relationship, Luminol the darn place. (or missing man, for that matter; or missing child...)

That's why as a family member I could have seen this slipping by, because like you I would have assumed they'd check with luminol just to make sure. Maybe this case will change future investigations. I don't know why they wouldn't use luminol just to check, if there's some cost issues, but it makes sense to play it safe and make sure there isn't any large blood evidence.

 

[Mom24]

Someone earlier suggested that it may have been a matter of procedure - that LE needed to secure a search warrant for

That makes sense. I also don't know if luminol is destructive in any way to property. For instance, would it damage that expensive artwork on the walls or a piece of antique furniture?

 

[CDB]

Steven Avery did it, and he was able to burn the bones to a great extent.

We don’t know how long the fire was going, or the extent to which the bones were burned.

Perhaps there is quite a bit to be found.

It would appear that lengthy burns and physically breaking down bones between the burns is the method that would be most successful. This article is the most interesting read I found on how burning of a body may be successful.
Burning Evidence

 

[mustloveco]

Here is a photo from the sidewalk...

 

[mustloveco]

A little closer view

 

[mustloveco]

2nd Photo, zoomed in ... hope this helps!

 

[ilovechili]

That makes sense. I also don't know if luminol is destructive in any way to property. For instance, would it damage that expensive artwork on the walls or a piece of antique furniture?

I figured a search warrant may be necessary, however, she and PF were not married and from what I understand from many threads ago, her parents hold the paper on her home. In that case, I would think they could grant access and allow LE to do as they needed with regard to at least examining the home. Maybe someone that knows more about this could weigh in. I do not think that would allow them access to her computer, etc. or personal things like that, but the home itself, I would think it would. Again, someone else with more knowledge about this may know more.

 

[lindaromas]

It's funny, I've asked this question so many times: Didn't they Luminol right away? I was convinced they HAD and hence the stilted plea from Cheryl--because they KNEW there was foul play--and all the other closedmouthed activities? I was SOOOOO disappointed to find out, that in this day and age of murderous spouses, Luminol wasn't de regeuer on DAY #1, Minute #1. I hope this was a lesson for LE everywhere. Even when everything looks great, if there's a missing woman in a wonky relationship, Luminol the darn place. (or missing man, for that matter; or missing child...)

Here’s my grabbing at straws, this is the third time I’ve started to say this. Why can’t dogs be brought in with welfare checks? Is it that costly? I’d hope less costly than Luminol or Blue Star

 

[MsJosie]

I found the article below interesting. Even though the question asked about a cremated fetus, there were interesting points. One being the cremation has to be done correctly to make sure the body is totally ash. The other is that teeth some sometimes can remain and are usually pulverized. Since this was NOT a cremation done under rules and guidelines and in a proper facility, just maybe there will be some part of the body/Skelton left even though he may have used used motor oil and or gasoline.


DNA Test after Death

 

[v0x]

Warrant Documents have been posted

Colorado Judicial Branch

 

[CDB]

Yes, Yes, and Yes, to all of the above points! Additionally:

4. They have blood evidence in her home.

I am beginning to think the blood evidence at the home is not enough in itself to justify the declaration of death. According to the AA the blood evidence was discovered on December 6th. As late as the December 10th press conference they were still making statements saying she was still a missing person, and downplaying she was the victim of homicide.

I am thinking like the logic presented, it is the sum of her not having any evidence of contact, or electronic interaction coupled with the claim of KK; using the blood evidence to verify KK's claim that we arrived at homicide, thus the arrest right after KK began to cooperate.

MOO

 

[lindaromas]

Reading the contents taken from PFs truck. It won’t let me copy and paste but 5 teeth in an envelope