GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[Doghairrules]

I don’t think Shanann ever truly knew that CW cheated on her, I think she had suspicions after the CC fiasco. I believe that chris lied to her and somewhat shut her up about questioning it further.

I believe CW killed her in her sleep while she was on her stomach!

I think he was too big of a coward to come clean and admit the affair!

I think he was to big of a coward to face her while he snuffed the life out of her.

A big fat MOO

I agree. That part of his confession didn’t ring true at all.

 

[NuttMegg]

OK, just finished it. Can I go to dinner with Coder, Lee, and Baumhover? Or at least be the fly on the wall?

 

[Nudgee]

We obviously can’t see the video of CW when he is recounting the events surrounding the murders to investigators, but I am absolutely confident of one thing:

When he choked up and made crying sounds, he did not shed a single tear.

Atleast he remembered to fake cry this time.

Probably remembered to take his attorney's advice to "show some emotion" ! (insert eye roll)

 

[MJPeony]

Wow. What an emotionally gut-wrenching thing to read and listen to today. I'm only about half-way through and haven't caught up on all of the discussion here. I'm essentially at a loss for words right now.

I'm particularly disturbed by CW's total dissociation to the events throughout his entire interview. He's completely removed from the concept of murder and it's significance. He talks about the course of murdering his family like telling a story about his college years. Colloquial, dare I say jovial at times, filling in with fluffy and needless factoids here and there, and wholly detached.

Even when he occasionally mentions how "horrible" something was, he's totally empty. You can hear it. It is shocking to me how similar he is to Christian Longo (who, among many other similarities to CW, IMO, talked about how in his jail cell he would look at pics of his kids that he murdered and not actually feel anything.)

Aside from the horror of the murders themselves, one of the most disturbing things I've heard so far on the tapes is when he and Coder and Tammy are discussing the crew that came to get BW and CcW out of tanks-

CW says "Sorry."

Omg. Unreal. I really have no words. His detachment and glibness does physically affect me and make me feel nauseous.

 

[MassGuy]

I think we can be pretty sure we do not know the real truth and never will.

Remember Ted Bundy? He entertained himself with "truth" interviews.

What else do guys like this have to do all day but plan the next one?

They get the undivided attention of a group of smart people and TV exposure.

It's not much of a life but it's something!

I think this is as close to the truth as we are ever going to get, and to be honest, I never thought we’d get as close as we did.

There are still countless unanswered questions, but I am confident that two things he told investigators are true:

He killed Shanann first.

Those kids did leave the house alive.

The rest of that interview was half truths, flat out lies, and lies of omission.

There was undoubtedly some truth sprinkled in, but we’ll never know for sure precisely what that is.

 

[TxMother67]

Chris Watts Has Photos of Slain Wife and 2 Daughters in Prison Cell: 'Talks to Them' Every Day
While incarcerated in Colorado before being transferred to Wisconsin, Watts said he was taunted by the other inmates, who “would yell at him at night and would explain to him all the ways he could kill himself in his cell by drowning himself in the toilet or hanging himself.” He said “he didn’t kill himself because he felt like he may have a different purpose.”
He said he prayed to be transferred to a different facility, and when he was, it “felt like God moved him to [the prison] for a reason.”
Watts told police he “tries to keep a ‘low profile’ in the prison.” BBM



Enlighten us, Chris.

Prison will be where he finally meets his maker. And I seriously doubt he will be greeted at pearly gates. I hope he has to beg for his life like Bella had to beg for hers.

 

[magicforest]

I don't know if I can bring a quote over from the past thread? Sorry if not, I'm pretty new at posting here....

@GoJacks "oh wow he asks how everything is going in Colorado and Tammy tells him "we had another guy kill his fiance" ---aka Patrick Frazee
hahaha she didn't even say allegedly or anything. I love her."

I love her too! I could totally imagine Tammy & Graham having their own show. Such an amazing tag team, like Scully and Mulder. I would hope Tammy wears her famous "Hamburgler" striped shirt in every episode. Don't you wish you could sit down with a cup of coffee, er, a can of Mountain Dew, and talk with Tammy about this case?

 

[Colorfuel]

It is complex. Even the investigators sounded confounded.

He is not typical. There seem to be factions of family annihilators - the types that have long histories of violence and doemstic abuse and the ones who seem totally normal but kill their families out of shame or a loss of control. Both usually also kill themselves.

He is not like either. And unlike most psychopaths who have a history of anti-social behavior, domestic violence criminal histories, drug and alcohol abuse, he has nothing. No hint of anger issues a la Patrick Frazee. No accounts of manipulative behavior.

He doesn't even register as giving people a hinky feeling like many psychopaths do. Nothing. Even AFTER watching his videos knowing he killed his family.

I think it's easy for us to say he's simply just evil. Or diagnose him with being a psychopath or narcissist or something. I keep veering back and forth. But IMO the reason this case is so astounding and the reason so many of us can't shake it and want to know more and talk more, is because he doesn't fit with a lot of patterns. There are shades of gray here.

Oh he definitely doesn't feel emotion exactly like most of us do. He isn't human in the same way the rest of us are. There is a defect. Something lacking: “It’s just weird how emotions process differently for me than everybody else.”

But there's also a lot of normalcy and typical human behavior there (or there was), that doesn't align with evil or any kind of mental health diagnosis we know of.

Just watch this. He is unaware Shanann is watching him. Watch how he interacts with and talks to his baby and how he reacts to news of a new one. I think this is all probably pretty real, which is indeed what makes him so scary:

I am speaking from the armchair, and from experience. The likely sociopath in my life was not unlike CW. No criminal history. Has learned a lot about how to be a decent person. But it can all switch off in a way that is truly frightening and hard for most people to understand.

I read of one study showing that psychopaths/sociopaths can actually turn on empathy at will. It’s discussed here, though this is not a specific article I’ve read:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-23431793

Maybe some of them turn on empathy more often than others. Maybe CW turned on empathy pretty often but needed a clear role to play and strong, consistent support to do so.

I think he has to be some variation on a psychopath. I agree he’s a weird one, though.

 

[Doghairrules]

I think prison suits him. As "bossy" as SW has been accused of being, CW seems to like being dominated and having structure and a routine like that. Having people telling him what to do and how to do it. He will never have to worry about those pesky bills again. Won't have to do those FB videos.It doesn't feel right. He should be miserable, but he probably won't be. I hate it.

They should put a webcam in his cell and blare it to the world.

 

[Seattle1]

It is complex. Even the investigators sounded confounded.

He is not typical. There seem to be factions of family annihilators - the types that have long histories of violence and doemstic abuse and the ones who seem totally normal but kill their families out of shame or a loss of control. Both usually also kill themselves.

He is not like either. And unlike most psychopaths who have a history of anti-social behavior, domestic violence criminal histories, drug and alcohol abuse, he has nothing. No hint of anger issues a la Patrick Frazee. No accounts of manipulative behavior.

He doesn't even register as giving people a hinky feeling like many psychopaths do. Nothing. Even AFTER watching his videos knowing he killed his family.

I think it's easy for us to say he's simply just evil. Or diagnose him with being a psychopath or narcissist or something. I keep veering back and forth. But IMO the reason this case is so astounding and the reason so many of us can't shake it and want to know more and talk more, is because he doesn't fit with a lot of patterns. There are shades of gray here.

Oh he definitely doesn't feel emotion exactly like most of us do. He isn't human in the same way the rest of us are. There is a defect. Something lacking: “It’s just weird how emotions process differently for me than everybody else.”

But there's also a lot of normalcy and typical human behavior there (or there was), that doesn't align with evil or any kind of mental health diagnosis we know of.

Just watch this. He is unaware Shanann is watching him. Watch how he interacts with and talks to his baby and how he reacts to news of a new one. I think this is all probably pretty real, which is indeed what makes him so scary:

I think some of the traits we look for such as drug/alcohol abuse, history of manipulative behavior, criminal behavior, etc., did not manifest in Chris himself but by his own account, he lived these parts through those he was surrounded by.

I think CW was basically a late bloomer, behind the scenes/sidelines guy. His friends and thoughts were determined by Mommy, until SW, CW's first serious girlfriend, happened -- and we know how that went over in the family.

There was very little room for CW to develop, because Sister demanded both all the attention and air in the room! Dad Ronnie was the smoker, coke head, and spend thrift--all because golden CW left his Daddy home alone with vile Mommy and Sister. (Wow, look how powerful I am).

CW proclaimed that he never knew how to be "himself" with SW, but I think that was partly because CW had no idea who he was until recently! If not himself, I believe CW was finally allowed to mature with SW -- no more Cindy purchased skater boy clothes and hair gel. It also appeared CW advanced and/or improved career wise, socially, and physically with SW's nurturing. CW also became a father with SW -- something he allegedly wanted to be his entire life.

And yet we learned today that over one summer month without the presence of SW and his children, CW believed that he found that he was finally able to "be himself" with NK. Was being "himself" now defined as a lying, manipulating, sex crazed lover of a bipolar interloper? It seems to me these traits are more complimentary to a family annihilator. MOO

 

[Doghairrules]

And I think that's the case with most sociopaths. They adapt easily. Scott Peterson is a great example. Casey Anthony in jail, she woke with a smile every day.

I wouldn't last a few hours before becoming a psychotic mess.

And even then I bet you wouldn’t kill anyone.

 

[Doghairrules]

I don't know if I can bring a quote over from the past thread? Sorry if not, I'm pretty new at posting here....

@GoJacks "oh wow he asks how everything is going in Colorado and Tammy tells him "we had another guy kill his fiance" ---aka Patrick Frazee
hahaha she didn't even say allegedly or anything. I love her."

I love her too! I could totally imagine Tammy & Graham having their own show. Such an amazing tag team, like Scully and Mulder. I would hope Tammy wears her famous "Hamburgler" striped shirt in every episode. Don't you wish you could sit down with a cup of coffee, er, a can of Mountain Dew, and talk with Tammy about this case?

Yes please.

 

[BeckyF]

I guess I'm stupid but I do not get why he would be saying these things NOW! So he can make himself look better??? He only sounds more evil!! What is his motive?? Listen good RW!!! He admitted to killing his children!

 

[NuttMegg]

I think this is as close to the truth as we are ever going to get, and to be honest, I never thought we’d get as close as we did.

There are still countless unanswered questions, but I am confident that two things he told investigators are true:

He killed Shanann first.

Those kids did leave the house alive.

The rest of that interview was half truths, flat out lies, and lies of omission.

There was undoubtedly some truth sprinkled in, but we’ll never know for sure precisely what that is.

I think I'm done with this, hopefully for a wonderful weekend hiking and photographing wildflowers.
Whether or not we hear any more truths/lies, one thing came out of this.
Not one single level headed person in the world is now thinking SW killed her kids, and that's the one thing we all wanted since August.
The FB/YT trolls will just keep on going, along with their ringleaders hoping to monetize their garbage.

 

[Colorfuel]

What really is bothering me is how he seems to be enjoying prison and has it somewhat better than I imagined. He deserves no freedom and all the perks it seems he does and soon will get. I want him to suffer but it just doesn’t seem like he is.

His behavioral default appears to be to look affable and agreeable and functional. I wouldn’t assume from this interview that he’s enjoying prison. I think he’s really, really angry at his parents, for example, but shows this only passive-aggressively.

 

[nwmouse]

Lot of thoughts. Not many words though. Some truth, some omissions, some lies IMO. My heart hurts hearing it and head hurts trying to sort it out. Only know 1) He’s missing something that makes the rest of us human. 2). we’ll never know if we know the real truth.

MassGuy called him an evil robot, and I think that sums up CW in a nutshell.

 

[Steelhead]

Gotta love Tammy! "They're asking for spiritual advice from . . . . . .you?" (When CW is talking about people writing to him)
LOL

 

[gitana1]

I am speaking from the armchair, and from experience. The likely sociopath in my life was not unlike CW. No criminal history. Has learned a lot about how to be a decent person. But it can all switch off in a way that is truly frightening and hard for most people to understand.

I read of one study showing that psychopaths/sociopaths can actually turn on empathy at will. It’s discussed here, though this is not a specific article I’ve read:

Psychopaths 'have empathy switch'

Maybe some of them turn on empathy more often than others. Maybe CW turned on empathy pretty often but needed a clear role to play and strong, consistent support to do so.

I think he has to be some variation on a psychopath. I agree he’s a weird one, though.

Yes and I think as someone has recently said, it's a spectrum.

We've discussed this in prior cases a lot. I've noted before how even some of the most frightening, psychopathic serial killers who happily confess and eagerly describe most of their murders, won't admit to or describe certain ones. Ones in which they out of character, covered the victim's face.

It's like there's remorse there. Shame.

It's just not black and white.

But this case is so confounding because there wasn't one hint. He never seemed to have switched off the empathy until the very end.

 

[MassGuy]

His behavioral default appears to be to look affable and agreeable and functional. I wouldn’t assume from this interview that he’s enjoying prison. I think he’s really, really angry at his parents, for example, but shows this only passive-aggressively.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, he is perfectly suited to prison.

He has order, routine, and doesn’t have to make decisions for himself.

He gets his fan letters, commissary funds, and apparently has quite a bit free time.

Lucky him.

He definitely resents his parents, but is too much of a coward to show it.

 

[Gardenista]

Is there a way to embed this in the thread?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154435896716935