Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #11 *ARREST*

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Hello everyone, been lurking since thread #2 and have been following the case since day one, thought I may as well chime in. It’s been a strange case- both circumstances and the investigation and LE have obviously been keeping things very close to their chests. But I think we can still read between the lines to deduce a few things.

1) Spidercam- 99.9% sure it’s PR and LS. As others have mentioned, ITV would not have aired it without LE’s approval (and editing suggests LE direction to ITV.) Also, LE say LS was near the bench until “around 12.09”- the car pulls away at 12.08.52.

2) Police response- the rapidity is striking. Possible that GB might have called 101 when he came across LS since she must have been in a bad way for him to notice and stop the car. The early LE statement says she was seen “near to” the bench, not on it. Perhaps she had fallen over, and GB stopped to help her onto the bench? But then that begs the question, if he did ring then why did LE appeal as they presumably had his details. Would explain the unusually fast response though.

3) Oak Road CCTV- I think this CCTV is more important than people might think. LE might be clutching at straws (hope not) but this is the ONLY footage they have released directly- everything else is withheld for “operational reasons” yet this was regarded as important enough to go public. What kind of ‘witnesses’ might these be? If they saw a crime taking place they would have reported it (anonymously if they were petty criminals) or come forward on day one; if they heard something- what did they hear? Screams have already been reported to LE, and they can almost certainly place PR in the park, so what other “crucial information” might these people have seen/heard?

4) LS location- highly doubt LS was ever in PR’s house as there would be some trace (might be relying too much on Locard’s exchange principle here) and that alone should be enough to charge him with kidnap. Can’t see any way he could excuse his way out of that. I think she WAS in the park (police focus suggests CCTV follows him there), and especially that bench which was investigated late at night. I would guess that PR must have told them about that since they responded immediately, and it was in the middle of his questioning. Unless he took her (alive) in his car somewhere else, I think the water is the most plausible scenario for where she ultimately ended up (but given the speed of the response and searches I would not have expected her to have gotten far.)

I’ll stop since I’ve already said more than I planned to. I know it’s re-treading old ground but there’s not much else to do atm. Hopefully there will be a breakthrough soon and we will be able to make more sense of this, and LS will be found.
I'm right with you on the Oak Road footage being important. It is the only thing directly released by LE. As far as I'm aware they are still waiting for the people shown.

What it's importance could be is beyond me.
 
Agreed. I can’t picture him being a particularly sociable chap. That said, all I could envisage at the start was LE having the wrong guy because the bloke I was reading about was a good boy from a poor family, a hardworking husband with two little ones and boyish looks to boot. Just goes to show. It was his sisters comments about him having given LS a lift that night that made my heart sink. Because aside from that I was convinced they’d got the wrong guy!

Your suggestions about the gym seem plausible. A good way to get to know local girls - if only from a distance (shudder). And a good excuse to leave the house outside of work hours. BUT for me the question isn’t so much did LS attend the gym - I think her mum said she was into fitness and it would make sense with the gym being close to her home. Did HE? Sure, we’ve seen the gym selfie and identified it as that gym, but from the way PRs been described as looking in court and from more recent photographs of him ... the guy I’m reading about sounds as though he’s let his fitness drop somewhat. I’m not sure how old the gym selfie is, but everything I’ve read about his current appearance suggests he looks very different? Would he still have been going to the gym do you think?
Depends what he was going to the gym for. If you're interested in fitness you can work really hard. But if you're there just to watch you can do the do the bare minimum just to justify your presence
 
I'm right with you on the Oak Road footage being important. It is the only thing directly released by LE. As far as I'm aware they are still waiting for the people shown.

What it's importance could be is beyond me.

I took that as an implicit acknowledgement by LE that, via whatever evidence they have, PR is known to have been in the area at that time. It's fairly isolated, so anybody else in the same area at the same time is naturally worth speaking to. I don't think it suggests that they are involved.
 
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Depends what he was going to the gym for. If you're interested in fitness you can work really hard. But if you're there just to watch you can do the do the bare minimum just to justify your presence

It's also common for the dads of young children to put some weight on - looking at my friends, sometimes quite a lot of weight.

The 'martial arts enthusiast' tag was never really fleshed out, and I can't help but think it was just used by the lower end of the MSM, along with 'Polish butcher', to paint a picture of someone of great physical strength and potential danger. It could be that he simply 'liked' a particular page on SM, rather than physically being a member of a club. Unless I've missed something.
 
If he was using weights at the gym rather than running machine/rowing machine etc., could that account for him being bulkier? Or was he just bigger as in flabbier? Also, some men at the gym I go to seem to use weight lifting as a showing off thing, they're often looking around to see who's watching them lift heavy weights, hoping to impress others (mostly young women).
 
If he was using weights at the gym rather than running machine/rowing machine etc., could that account for him being bulkier? Or was he just bigger as in flabbier? Also, some men at the gym I go to seem to use weight lifting as a showing off thing, they're often looking around to see who's watching them lift heavy weights, hoping to impress others (mostly young women).

He could have been on a "bulk" lots of body builders go through bulking and cutting cycles. To put on maximum muscle you need to eat more to be in a calorie surplus. But you also gain fat while on a bulk. You then do a cut to lose the fat you've gained but maintain the muscle.
My boss does this and every winter he gains weight and starts looking stocky but podgy and then when spring starts he starts a cut and slims down for summer.
That could explain his weight gain and larger appearance.

Also someone said about the rapidity of the police and if greybeard called them. For all we know greybeard pulled over and asked her name and so the police would have known someone called Libby was last seen very drunk by the bench.
I've found loads of wastepd peoplein bad situations and the first thing you say to them is "what's your name mate" and they usually tell you.
 
If he was using weights at the gym rather than running machine/rowing machine etc., could that account for him being bulkier? Or was he just bigger as in flabbier? Also, some men at the gym I go to seem to use weight lifting as a showing off thing, they're often looking around to see who's watching them lift heavy weights, hoping to impress others (mostly young women).

In the gym selfie PR appears to be wearing weightlifting gloves, generally only used by people who do strength training, specifically deadlifts as it helps with gripping the bar. If he was more of a strength-focused gym goer then that would potentially explain him being bulkier (a lot of powerlifters and strongmen do look 'fat' to the untrained eye.)
 
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Believe me, no serious lifter wears gloves. I've trained for more than half my life, I've managed a gym, I've competed in strength sports, and can say without hesitation that his physical prowess has been overstated by the media to whip up outrage. He's fat.
 
What are your thoughts on timeframe JosieJo ... did he make a call to LE soon after she went missing? Or days later when there were public appeals?

I’m thinking the opposite. I don’t think he said a word to anyone ... until LE came knocking.

I would think if he did go to the police it would have been when publicity started...maybe when it was released that they knew she was at the bench ? I think a senior officer did an appeal outside at the bench ?
 
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I’ve been following this since #1 and very impressed with the mostly articulate interpretations given the limited information. Strontium’s videos are excellent .

Much of what I think has already been said but first post anyway ...This case has really got to me as I have 2 children at this uni who have loose connections with LS’s friends . They are both at the same gym as PR and one if my children arrived at welly at about 11.20 that same night. I visit hull regularly with Red Cross parcels for the children and last week found myself close to PR’s place of work . Despite ridicule , i started to look for CCTV and possible secluded lay-bys close to ditches or woodland from that point towards Hull. There are lots of the latter .

I too have studied spidercam and concur that it seems very reasonable to assume it is LS. confirmed also by PR and I think his sister and mother.

The timing of the oak road cctv suggests that PR’s whereabouts were possibly not fully known until 3am . That surprised me . That gap is just right for him to travel the work route and back although I’m not convinced he did that entire journey with LS and risk being stopped or caught on cctv .

My children were at the courtyard last year and it is routine to have Prees before going on elsewhere - typically asylum on Wednesdays or welly on Thursdays . It’s not typical to go via another pub so the chance of further CCTV would reduce from such sources . Lots of cctv around the courtyard but not that helpful for this purpose .

Many support the river theory but others have said it is too shallow and meandering for anyone to have traveled far. The tide was half in and rising which might suggest a push upriver rather than towards the Humber . IMO I think she would have struggled to reach the river accidentally and to be taken there by anyone risked attention. I won’t mention the foxes.

The obvious crux is that LE must prove , beyond reasonable doubt that PR did not leave LS unharmed . He has pleaded not guilty to the first set of charges and , if he maintains this plea, and IF found guilty st trial , he will lose some if his sentence discount. Discounts are granted for TIMELY guilty pleas . No pleas yet for the more recent charges but Monday may change that . The order of cases heard can change depending on whether security and/or his solicitor are busy in another court. Hope someone from WS can attend .

I cannot comprehend how the family can begin to make sense of this until LS is found . My heart goes out also to all those people and friends who may be feeling that they should have done more . Some have been subjected to upsetting criticism . They are deeply effected by LS’s disappearance that some have felt compelled to return home to parents . No one could have predicted the sequence of events that created this perfect storm .

At hull tomorrow again and will continue to stay alert for new possibilities .

In the meantime the majority of students remain on high alert .

I would think the exact opposite...I would say the request for the CCTV witnesses suggest the police know exactly where he was up till 2.30 ..as in in oak rd area
 
He could have been on a "bulk" lots of body builders go through bulking and cutting cycles. To put on maximum muscle you need to eat more to be in a calorie surplus. But you also gain fat while on a bulk. You then do a cut to lose the fat you've gained but maintain the muscle.
My boss does this and every winter he gains weight and starts looking stocky but podgy and then when spring starts he starts a cut and slims down for summer.
That could explain his weight gain and larger appearance.

Also someone said about the rapidity of the police and if greybeard called them. For all we know greybeard pulled over and asked her name and so the police would have known someone called Libby was last seen very drunk by the bench.
I've found loads of wastepd peoplein bad situations and the first thing you say to them is "what's your name mate" and they usually tell you.
I honestly think the rapidity would be down to her friends saying she wasn't in several hours after they'd sent her home in a taxi. It was -5, she was drunk and dressed for clubbing and should have been tucked in in bed. It would ring alarm bells.

The police specifically asked for grey beard to come forward and he did so. I'd guess he didn't call it in. You'd have to give details for a 101 call.

I guess he asked was she ok and I'd guess she said something to reassure him. Maybe that her friends would be on a bus or even that she lived nearby and was setting off home. At the end of the day there is only so much you can do. Poor bloke is probably yet another feeling unnecessary guilt.
 
Believe me, no serious lifter wears gloves. I've trained for more than half my life, I've managed a gym, I've competed in strength sports, and can say without hesitation that his physical prowess has been overstated by the media to whip up outrage. He's fat.

My thoughts also. I’ve switched between strength training and endurance training over the years. Two very different types of training and in strength there’s a vast difference between stocky & bulking v fat. Even looking at his gym pic he’s podgy, and looking at his wedding pics he’s fat.

As has also been suggested, there are plenty of people wandering around a gym doing very little in the way of anything meaningful and if fitness was never his primary reason for being there I guess this could explain it.

But no doubt about it, the grey outfit gym pic (pulled off FB by MSM I think?) which puts him at exercise4less is not recent if his current appearance is anything to go on.
 
That's surprising. There used to be a camera on the tower by the cross.

Edit - it's there on the 2012 streetview image.
I went to look over half term, (not haging around a school in term time) and i honestly couldnt see one near the cross but your correct it does look like one on google earth
 
PR could have been telling his wife he was going to the gym to cover his burgling, flashing and winky wrangling escapades. In the wedding pics I've seen he does look chubby rather than bulked.

Is it possible Libby's friends got worried after not hearing from her that she was home safe and left the nightclub early to go check on her? Or that the boys who saw her get out of the taxi were at the same club and told her friends she didn't go in the house so they went looking for her? I'm sure someone on here said she was reported missing at 3am, that just seems early to be home from a nightclub and realise someone is missing. (Disclaimer, my clubbing days are loooooong over but that's just what I'm going by)
 
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