GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[BradB]

I believe transparency is the key to a healthy relationship and marriage. Once Chris realized he didnt want to be with SW anymore he should have just said so right away instead of having it fester.

I will also say before getting into a relationship with somebody you have to do your due diligence. I understand times are tougher today and access is much easier due to dating apps but you have to do your homework on people.

 

[Misy]

I THINK all those photos are in the released documents as I recall. It's 2000 pages. I read every single page. It was something, alright. Like an unedited novel. Since CW used a hidden communication app with NK, I can't quite recall if everything was recovered or not.

I read every page too. Took forever! I definitely don’t recall that many pics of NK and nothing other than the ones we’ve all seen that are widely out there. But some people here sometimes refer to a “nude selfie” for example “texted 10 min after she’s asking him to fix things with his wife”. Just wondered where that pic (and timing) came from.

 

[pinkie60]

L

NK: I really want you to try to work on your marriage with your wife first. I don't want to break a family apart...
--10 minutes later--
(Sends sexy selfie of herself wearing nothing but a grin.)

Yeah, she wanted him to work on it alright...

She is very manipulative. when talking to LE it looked to me like she was the one in control

 

[Colorfuel]

I hope it does not sound callous, but I want him to be kept safe, and evaluated more, for one reason.

We have a high number of women being killed by their partners. Sooner or later, someone has to put together - not books, instructions- for women, how to stay alive in a relationship. Or when to run away, run for their lives?

This is when these odd, seemingly isolated, cases, family annihilators, men beating moms of their children by the bats, men drowning pregnant wives, all these horrible guys, their thinking, their family dynamics, their relationships, all will come in helpful and handy.

Maybe even - one day we'll be better at instructing the parents on what pitfalls to avoid in order not to raise future killers?
(I know it sounds naive).

But postfactum, we can find many holes in the canvas of CW's family life, but neither points to murder or family annihilation.

Likewise, with CW's parents. A dysfunctional family, but in so many ways, average. Nothing pointing to a murder there, either.

MOO - better to keep him alive.

The best book on this imo is Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. I haven’t read it in years now but I still recommend it whenever I hear of anyone in an abuse situation. The author also writes about when you should leave and how to do so safely.

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-...d=1552235117&s=gateway&sr=8-1&tag=googhydr-20

IIRC one of the points Bancroft makes is that men who abuse do so because they can, and they get more out of it than they lose from it. And that is mostly because of how our patriarchal society is structured.

The book is not specifically about dealing with narcissism or sociopathy. I think with someone like CW there may not have been enough red flags. However, when I see the letters he was writing to NK, those are imo warning signs. He was way over the top—too good to be true. If he love-bombed Shanann in a similar way, that would have been a sign he was not normal.

Btw I am not saying Shanann should have or could have known CW would ever be dangerous. So back to your point, if there were more information on how to avoid these problems, and how to prevent monstrous behavior to begin with, yes, that would be great.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Was anyone else surprised when CW said in his interview that he was surprised he’d gotten life in prison, that he didn’t think he’d get that much?
Just another example of how little common sense he has... killing four people, including three small children... what other sentence would be possible?

 

[pinkie60]

K

I really got stuck on
“Right now I’d have a 5 year old, a 3 year old and more than likely a 1 month old son and a beautiful wife but right now it’s just me.” Boo hoo. He is thinking of them as his possessions that he destroyed/lost. He is just so pathetic and self absorbed.

Yeah he would and shannans parents would have their daughter and grandchildren Frankie would have his sister and nieces. Her friends would have her back. It goes on and on. His parents would have the grandchildren. If only-----but Chris wanted them gone. When he chose to get rid of them he must have imagined a much happier ending for himself

 

[kkdj]

I just cannot understand how a person can be wanting another child with their mate and within months of knowing a child is on the way, already has 2 other beautiful loving children, can decide to murder his wife and children for a poa. I just don't get it. Has his whole life been acting he's happy and relatively calm and passive and yet the storm has been brewing? That's so scary to think that there are others out there that nobody would ever suspect. And now he gives an interview that I personally don't know his motivation for doing, except for attention, something to do, give a message to someone, etc. I know he says he found God and is looking for salvation, but it strikes me as digging the knife in deeper, just a little more evil at hand and of course he's out of his cell and getting attention and messages out there. He also got it out there that he would like to see NK one more time. My skin is crawling!

 

[kkdj]

L


She is very manipulative. when talking to LE it looked to me like she was the one in control

Well, I think they let her think that. Personally, I thought she came across as covering her own *** and unemotional about what happened to others.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Well, I think they let her think that. Personally, I thought she came across as covering her own *** and unemotional about what happened to others.

I agree... if a crucial witness hasn’t lawyered up already, best to keep them feeling relatively safe so they keep cooperating.
NK came across to me as extremely controlling in her police interviews; constantly talking over and through the investigator, etc. IMO, not deferential (or even polite) at all...

 

[kkdj]

Was anyone else surprised when CW said in his interview that he was surprised he’d gotten life in prison, that he didn’t think he’d get that?
Just another example of how little common sense he has... killing four people, including three small children... what other sentence would be possible?

Why would he be surprised? Wasn't he told that was the deal? Of course, he could have the death penalty instead. He must have known that. I'm sure his attys. advised him of everything on his plate.
Maybe he just thought he didn't do anything so bad for life in prison. He's still not taking responsibility and lacks empathy. He's scary......because he doesn't come across as dangerous. He actually comes across as a wimpy nice guy imo.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Why would he be surprised? Wasn't he told that was the deal? Of course, he could have the death penalty instead. He must have known that. I'm sure his attys. advised him of everything on his plate.
Maybe he just thought he didn't do anything so bad for life in prison. He's still not taking responsibility and lacks empathy. He's scary......because he doesn't come across as dangerous. He actually comes across as a wimpy nice guy imo.

Yes, you make good points... I think his persona was all wrapped up in being ‘the nice guy’, and he was probably told that a LOT by all sorts of people. Where the childish world view/lack of common sense shows up here is that he is surprised to get a life sentence for those heartless murders, even though he’s a ‘nice guy’. In the interview he also referred to the murders as a ‘moment in time’ he didn’t want to be judged on. (!?) So strange...

 

[Gardenista]

I read every page too. Took forever! I definitely don’t recall that many pics of NK and nothing other than the ones we’ve all seen that are widely out there. But some people here sometimes refer to a “nude selfie” for example “texted 10 min after she’s asking him to fix things with his wife”. Just wondered where that pic (and timing) came from.

From discovery page 2093:

1640 hours: Shanann called Watts and held an eighteen minute conversation[41 - TL: 5559]

Simultaneous to that call Watts transferred a nude selfie of Kessinger into his Secret Calculator a pplication[41 - lmages: 2550]

 

[pinkie60]

I didn't see the other pictures in the documents. I must have missed that. I didn't think they were accessible to the public. Not that I would care to see them. I have a pretty good idea of the kind of pictures she would have sent him. Imo

She deleted something like 2000 pages of messages (maybe pix too).

 

[Misy]

From discovery page 2093:

1640 hours: Shanann called Watts and held an eighteen minute conversation[41 - TL: 5559]

Simultaneous to that call Watts transferred a nude selfie of Kessinger into his Secret Calculator a pplication[41 - lmages: 2550]

Thank you Gardenista!!

 

[Mamamiamaria]

Such a pity Agents Coder and Lee did not interview NK. That would be interesting !

 

[pinkie60]

Agree, I have been married 30 years and can honestly say we have never had a rough patch. We have a few big fights but they are rare and we don’t focus on the little irritants. I guess I am lucky considering we met and married in 5 months and had 4 kids the first 4 years, it could have been a disaster if we had not been so crazy in love with each other. We both are extremely considerate of each other which I think like you said, is a key ingredient. I also agree tough times do not equate to affairs and murder. I really do not think CW was unhappy in his marriage til he met NK- then he looked for reasons, maybe some valid maybe some not. Many friends have stated that they were a couple that always had their hands on each other, always kissing, holding hands, they were kind to each other- that is not the body language of an unhappy couple.

That's what gets me too they seemed so happy. But I guess it started going south when she went to North Carolina for 6wks. By then he was seeing NK and was distant to put it mildly when he joined Shannan and the kids in NC for a week. I think he was getting obsessed and afraid to lose NK. What a tangled mess
Really if he was so conflicted right then he should have gotten an apt and moved out
Maybe this could be some advice for someone with a similar issue.

 

[Seattle1]

random thoughts:
Shanann said she met Chris at her lowest point, both mentally and health wise and he was there for her. IIRC even Shanann’s parents referenced how good he was to her during this time period.
CW said he had to talk NK off the ledge a few times. Do you think feeling needed, being the “strong one” contributed to him saying he felt more like an equal with NK? In my opinion NK was manipulating and pulling the strings in their relationship. As others have stated, since he has no agency of his own, he has to look to external sources for “who he is”- he felt that again with NK- in addition to the sex and it was a powerful drug for him because he has no core, does not have the necessary components stand on his own.

Shannan said Chris had no game, why she did not believe he would be cheating. That seems to lend validation to Chris saying NK did the pursuing.

I agree that NK did the pursuing. I believe CW saying that he could be himself around NK is because he was married to his opposite, whereas NK worked in the same industry, knew same team members, culture, projects, etc., and they could spend their stolen moments together talking shop, Metallica, and having sex.

Having an affair with a work mate means there's never any awkward silence as when getting to know a stranger. CW was comfortable around NK because he was comfortable at work and that environment. He liked his job, and was acknowledged by his peers for his skills and performance. CW would have failed trying to have an affair with a real stranger that he had to get to know. He didn't have game. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Yes. Agree with all of this. And she worked in a very male dominated field office. There MUST have been many single men. Single attractive men. She chose a married man with 2 toddlers and a pregnant wife.

My only hope for her is that she realizes her part in this tragedy and moves on in life with a goal to do good and help others in some meaningful way. Basically repent and ask forgiveness thru the universe in good deeds and actions. If not, I hope she has a miserable existence and this follows her forever.

NK Googled Amber Frey. She wanted to write a book. This at the time when she should have felt guilt for all of it. Because of her involvement with a married man, a pregnant women and two toddlers were killed. And she is not an idiot, she must have guessed something from the very beginning when they disappeared. Like she had no scruples to visit the Wattses’ house, to have bites from Shanann’s family table, so to say, she will have no remorse. She preened herself for that “mistress” role, for that photo on the Denver magazine cover. Don’t count on her repenting, she is angry that life threw her a curve. Maybe men she meets will be superstitious enough to stay away from her, and this will be her punishment.

 

[pinkie60]

I agree that NK did the pursuing. I believe CW saying that he could be himself around NK is because he was married to his opposite, whereas NK worked in the same industry, knew same team members, culture, projects, etc., and they could spend their stolen moments together talking shop, Metallica, and having sex.

Having an affair with a work mate means there's never any awkward silence as when getting to know a stranger. CW was comfortable around NK because he was comfortable at work and that environment. He liked his job, and was acknowledged by his peers for his skills and performance. CW would have failed trying to have an affair with a real stranger that he had to get to know. He didn't have game. MOO

You have such good insight. I wondered what Chris meant when he said he could be himself around her. Just a thought. I don't think he socialized much with even one male coworker. Idk maybe he felt isolated and needed some male company. Just a thought

 

[Charlot123]

I didn't see the other pictures in the documents. I must have missed that. I didn't think they were accessible to the public. Not that I would care to see them. I have a pretty good idea of the kind of pictures she would have sent him. Imo

I am glad they are not accessible to public. NK is deeply amoral person and does not need any “advertisement” in the form of nudes, tbh.