GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[pinkie60]

After the murders and Chris had Shannans ring he texted NK and asked her what she thought it was worth. She told him to get it appraised. Does anyone think it's funny he didn't know how much the ring was worth? I mean he must have bought it for her or they bought it together wouldn't you think?

 

[Seattle1]

I've been out of touch for a while but @PommyMommy alerted me to the updates on this case. I don't know how much of the discussion about SW I believe--how do you straddle someone for 20 minutes and have a conversation? IMO, parts are true. I think he had been thinking about killing SW at least for a while. He had a lot of built up resentment towards her. It's chilling that he said that this had all pent up from the wedding--that's a long time and a lot of resentment. I don't think his resentment was warranted--she was just trying to living her life the way she wanted. But resentment is powerful and probably had him thinking about killing her for a while. I think believe that he hadn't fully planned this and the conversation, however it happened, probably was the ultimate trigger.

I'm still on the fence about whether or not he planned to kill Bella and CeCe or only did so because they saw what happened. It breaks my heart that they knew what was going on, especially Bella, who had to see both her mother and her sister die. I'm glad he hears Bella every day-I hope she haunts him for the rest of his life.

Anyway, my two cents on the developments. He's told so many different stories at this point that it's hard to know what to believe.

Thanks much for your professional comments.

After watching the vacation video (week prior to murder) of girls at the beach for the first time, and CW's obvious detachment from his children, I believe he intended to kill the girls. If/when CW wanted to be a dad again, he could reproduce with NK or other willing mate.

However, I do remain perplexed why CW didn't smother the children at home -- making the drive and disposal more convenient for himself. Unless CW wanted one last moment where all 4 were together and he could finally say that he had a moment when he was in total control, SW silenced forever, dead on the truck floorboard.

 

[Seattle1]

After the murders and Chris had Shannans ring he texted NK and asked her what she thought it was worth. She told him to get it appraised. Does anyone think it's funny he didn't know how much the ring was worth? I mean he must have bought it for her or they bought it together wouldn't you think?

Coming from someone that has resold diamond jewelry -- there's no comparing the 100 percent markup paid, to appraisal for resale! MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

After the murders and Chris had Shannans ring he texted NK and asked her what she thought it was worth. She told him to get it appraised. Does anyone think it's funny he didn't know how much the ring was worth? I mean he must have bought it for her or they bought it together wouldn't you think?

After CW asked NK how much she thought the ring was worth, she told him to pawn it. He then told her that he was going to get it appraised. I don't think it's unusual that he didn't know how much it was worth. He didn't seem to have much of a grasp on the value of anything.
MOO

 

[nells]

Can someone point out to me, in the large document dump, where CW said he asked NK how much the ring is worth? I’ve heard this but never read it in the documents (didn’t have a chance to read everything). Thanks in advance!

 

[Gardenista]

Can someone point out to me, in the large document dump, where CW said he asked NK how much the ring is worth? I’ve heard this but never read it in the documents (didn’t have a chance to read everything). Thanks in advance!

Pg 575

-NICHOL recalled another conversation on August 13, 2018 (Monday). CHRIS told NICHOL, SHANANN had left her wedding ring at the house. CHRIS asked NICHOL how much she thought the ring wasworth. She responded by telling him to pawn it. He said he was going to get the ring appraised.

 

[molly1255]

Pg 575

-NICHOL recalled another conversation on August 13, 2018 (Monday). CHRIS told NICHOL, SHANANN had left her wedding ring at the house. CHRIS asked NICHOL how much she thought the ring wasworth. She responded by telling him to pawn it. He said he was going to get the ring appraised.

Why would CW have any reason to think that NK had any idea what Shananns ring might be worth if she had never seen it?

Shanann's ring was very noticeable in many of her facebook videos.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I think he probably lacks insight. IMO, he's never had to deal with his emotions on his own. By his own admission, he was the baby of the family, and his relationship with his mother probably helped develop coping skills that are not functional or "normal". He probably doesn't realize this is the case, and when he came up against someone like SW who, by all accounts, knew how to tackle challenges. I suspect she tried to solve all the problems she could for him, but couldn't make his life perfect which generated resentment.

It is entirely possible that he doesn't know why he killed his family. I really think is his insight into his own mind is pretty limited. However, while I acknowledge what he did was not normal, and there's definitely some emotional problems, I still maintain my stance that I don't think he has a diagnosable mental disorder (conditioned on the fact that you cannot adequately diagnose someone over the internet).

Thank you for spending time here with us to help us understand. Listening to all of his confessions, I noticed when he misses or talks about his dead family, he always puts it in terms that show their value to him, not in their own right as individual, independent lives with futures/hopes/dreams. For example (one of many), he talks about how he doesn't know why he did it when he always wanted to be a dad or when he says that he will look outside and wonder what "we" could have been doing outside today. He never once talks about their individual lives cut short - just how he no longer has them in his life. I have likened it to his caring for them like they were a vintage car he restored (since he is into cars) - people will care deeply about keeping them in pristine condition, enjoy them, care for the prized car. But once that car is gone, they might miss the times they could still be having with the car and remember it fondly, but they would obviously, since it is an inanimate object, not think about the car's own feelings, desires, wants, value. Does that make sense? It is perhaps too rudimentary an analogy - but I'm wondering if this does reveal a sociopathy or other disorder? I just have never seen him once, in hours and hours of tape, indicate anything that resembles remorse for the lives he took away in their own right - just in terms of their loss to him and that it was a wrong and horrible thing to have done. He comes across as a very sweet/kind man otherwise, so I am wondering if he lacks an ability to feel the things we feel for other living things - empathy I guess - even though he has no history of hurting living things in his past...perhaps just shutting people out like his parents when they disliked SW. Is it possible he never had a need to get rid of anything before so the lack of empathy did not show? Could he have learned to mimic empathy so well in everyday life as to be persuasive before this? After all, he did research what it feels like when someone says I love you on Google when he was "falling" for NK. Thank you in advance if you could answer this for me!

 

[Tuffgong]

For those who are more familiar with the legal system than I am,
if the client confesses to the crime, aren't the lawyers legally bound to report that?

Absolutely not! You would be disbarred. Confidentiality. You defend him to the best of your ability, regardless.

 

[Best of What's Around]

After CW asked NK how much she thought the ring was worth, she told him to pawn it. He then told her that he was going to get it appraised. I don't think it's unusual that he didn't know how much it was worth. He didn't seem to have much of a grasp on the value of anything.
MOO

That NK was such a prize.

 

[opalonyx]

That NK was such a prize.

Who even asks their mistress what they should do with their ex wife's ring? CW really did need to be spoonfed what to do in life.

 

[opalonyx]

The affair showed motive, but I don't think NK was all that helpful to LE, other than she confirmed they had been having an affair. LE already had proof of that.

Wasn't her father notified by Anadarko's IT guy that she had been corresponding romantically with CW? That may be the only reason she came forward IMO. Her father knew it would look better on her if she was forthright.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

It's difficult but I saw a comment that mentioned autism and I just wanted to point out that it can be a dangerous perception to question this because people on the spectrum are not violent people. Although in situations of high-functioning autism such as Asperger's Syndrome, there is a lack of empathy, there's also a lack of empathy present in Antisocial Personality Disorder. High IQs are usually present in both disorders and there are people that have been misdiagnosed with one when it was really the other. I believe there are serial killers that are widely rumored to have Antisocial Personality Disorder as well. However, we will never know what is wrong with Chris. Only the medical professionals that deal with him will have the opportunity to diagnose him.

Chris keeps saying that as he was strangling Shanann, he felt he "couldn't let go" and wishes he could let go but felt someone else was in control. To me, that sounds like he has some sort of problem with impulse control.

 

[NanZDrew]

I wonder if he did not go to trial because he did not want the public to see the pictures? I bet he has the memory of all that happened, remembers them. (As a former school chess player he must have good visual memory. And given the primitive way he speaks, I assume he is primarily a visual processor.) But he hoped the public won’t see them, did not count on the data dump.

He keeps the pictures as the mementos of his past life. As if they are alive. This is why he was so honest, when he spoke with the visitors, he was relieving that life. Reading or talking to them won’t drive him mad. It is keeping them alive.

And yet out of all moral freaks he is the only one who speaks.

Wow! That is so twisted, but I think you are correct. He does sort of create his own reality, and he very much cares how he is perceived. I remember on the day of the murders they were going to contact his supervisor and he was, "Good God, no. They think I am a good guy." That statement in itself says lots to me. It says that he doesn't care if he is a good guy, just tat people THINK he is a good guy. And the way he was so relieved to hear SW's family still loved him! So weird.

 

[Doghairrules]

On the Case with Paula Zaharia is on ID about a murdered mom whose 4 year old found her. They are interviewing the now adult daughter. Interesting to hear what she remembers, what she knew, when she found her mother in light of this week’s Bella news. :sob:

 

[pinkie60]

I'm pleased with that also. Last night I listened again to the interview she had with LE, when she brought her father along. That's the one when she pretended to have an emotional melt down, but very quickly recovered and she lied and tried to manipulate throughout the entire interview.

She claimed that because of his situation, she was trying to take things very slow with CW. He said he slept at her place every night when Shanann and the girls were out of town. He also said she wanted to have sex all the time.

And that's the love story of CW and NK. In a nutshell.

I wonder if he resorted to certain substances to keep up with her

 

[molly1255]

Wasn't her father notified by Anadarko's IT guy that she had been corresponding romantically with CW? That may be the only reason she came forward IMO. Her father knew it would look better on her if she was forthright.

I haven't heard that before, but perhaps there something to it. LE know about her (before she came forward) because Anadarkos IT Dept. reported to LE that she was a possible AP, because of some emails.

 

[NanZDrew]

He certainly did! He may have been trying to get even. He may have heard that she said that his cheese slid off the cracker before she ever met him.

They are two very nasty, hideous people.

You know, once snakes start eating something, they eat and eat until everything is gone. If two snakes both start eating the same mouse, the snake that gets its head over the head of the other snake first will eat the other snake just because it is in feeding mode. With NK and CW, the question was who would gets its mouth over the over first.

 

[molly1255]

You know, once snakes start eating something, they eat and eat until everything is gone. If two snakes both start eating the same mouse, the snake that gets its head over the head of the other snake first will eat the other snake just because it is in feeding mode. With NK and CW, the question was who would gets its mouth over the over first.

Good analogy!

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

I wonder if he resorted to certain substances to keep up with her

Honestly, after being married for awhile, intimate life can get stale as all of us that have been married for a few years know. SW had some health issues, recently had a surgery, and dealt with chronic pain. Having health issues makes it hard to have sex at a moment's notice all of the time (I have chronic pain too). Chris was probably in shock that NK wanted to have so much sex. However, that is pretty common in brand new relationships when there is a lot of "romantic fireworks" and lust. I don't think NK wanting to have sex all of the time is abnormal for someone that's in a brand new relationship. Chris seems to emphasize how he felt like "himself", "in control", and with someone who wanted sex "all of the time". I think he liked how NK brought his ego up. He felt important. I don't blame NK because she didn't kill anyone. She's not all "roses" but she has not committed a crime and has had to suffer public and professional humiliation. I blame CW. CW did this to his family. CW could have stopped it and did not. CW could have chosen to get professional medical help for his problems. Chris is a very bad person.

I'm still listening to the audio and CW has not yet given a reason that makes anyone feel any sort of closure for why he annihilated his family. I am still confused. I have been actually more upset and baffled after finding out how Bella died. She suffered. She saw everything. She said "Daddy NO". I have never been this traumatized personally by a case as I have with this one. Chris is an evil man.

Chris attacked an murdered not only his wife but little children. This grown man attacked and murdered a toddler who begged him, "NO". That is on another level of evil to me.