GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think CW was brainwashed into maybe hating Shannan by his mother. I think mothers have a huge influence on their sons. I could be wrong but I think that was a catalyst in this.
I think this started at a very young age, and CW was shaped to a large extent, by his mother.

No woman would have been good enough for him, and she certainly turned up his stress level, and Shanann’s, by being a nasty and vindictive presence.

He didn’t get the way he is, without a little help along the way.
 
“I’ve been doing this for 45 years, there’s no category for this, it’s pure evil.” -Dr Phil

The whole thing about the baby being alive, was in regards to the time that Shanann was murdered (she hadn’t miscarried before that). When Shanann died, the baby died (obviously).

As the family was told details by investigators, they thought about how hard it must be for THE INVESTIGATORS to break this to THEM!

That’s the Rzucek’s in a nutshell. Amazing people.

Yes they are
Dr. Phil points out that the Rzucek’s would have taken the children in a heartbeat.

Shanann would have been fine had CW simply just left.

Dr. Phil says that CW was thinking all about himself, as a “malignant narcissist.

Frank Sr. supported the death penalty all along.

They all would have supported it knowing what they know now.

They didn’t know details about Bella’s injuries, or that SW was buried face down until they heard it in court.
Wow, I don’t how they will ever find peace and not be hurting. I hope they can find some measure of peace somehow.
 
“You want another life, open the door and leave.” - Frank Sr.

Exactly!

They clearly hate the mistress, but don’t lose sleep over it. Her Google searches really bothered them (book deal, wedding dresses, Amber Frey).

They aren’t sure if she was involved, but realize that she played a role in CW doing this.

“They weren’t even cold yet, and they (girls) were getting pushed in the tank.” -Sandy.
 
Shan’ann Watts’ Mother: ‘I Want To Be On A Mission To Hug Every Woman That’s Missed A Child’ | Dr. Phil
“They wanted to live. They had a right to live, and they had beautiful lives,” says Shan’ann’s mother, Sandy Rzucek.

“I want to be on a mission to hug every woman that’s missed a child,” says Sandy, who asks Dr. Phil to help her achieve her goal of comforting other mothers who have experienced the loss of a missing or murdered child.

(Video clip in the article are from today's full episode.)
 
Last edited:
“Have you had any contact with his family?”-Dr. Phil.

“God no!”- Sandy.

Ronnie got his son to talk, so they are grateful for that.

CW ran with what the interrogators gave him while playing “good cop, bad cop.”

In regards to online trolls:

“I’m glad this is going to shut up all the people saying that Shannan did it.”-Frankie Jr.
 
Last edited:
Bipolar disorder is an affective disorder, not a personality disorder. It is not part of cluster B.
Technically correct, I have always viewed Manic Depression as a "B" due to the overwhelming similarity. And the jury is still out: "Because of their overlapping phenomenology and mutually chronic, persistent nature, distinctions between bipolar disorder and cluster B personality disorders remain a source of unresolved clinical controversy."
Bipolar disorder with comorbid cluster B personality disorder features: impact on suicidality. - PubMed - NCBI
 
‘It’s Worse Than We Even Thought,’ Says Murder Victim Shan’ann Watts’ Brother Of His Sister and Nieces’ Final Moments | Dr. Phil
“It’s worse than we even thought,” says Shan’ann’s brother, Frankie. “We were hoping it happened in her sleep.”

Father Of Murder Victim Shan’ann Watts Reveals What He’d Say To Son-In-Law, Chris, If Given The Chance | Dr. Phil
“Knowing what you now know, what would you say to him?” asks Dr. Phil of the grieving family.

“The same question I’ve had – Why?” responds Frank Sr. adding, “There’s nothing that I can imagine why you would do that to your family. You want another life? Go. Open the door and leave.”

“He could have just gotten a divorce,” says Sandy. Calling her daughter and granddaughters’ deaths “inhumane” she says, “I think the hardest thing for me right now is the way they died.”

(Video clips in the article are from today's full episode.)
 
Last edited:
I think this started at a very young age, and CW was shaped to a large extent, by his mother.

No woman would have been good enough for him, and she certainly turned up his stress level, and Shanann’s, by being a nasty and vindictive presence.

He didn’t get the way he is, without a little help along the way.
Yes, and additionally he modeled his father's behavior all these years. He's close with his dad and describes Pappy Watts as his "hero". The role model who denies real feelings at all costs. MOO
 
Technically correct, I have always viewed Manic Depression as a "B" due to the overwhelming similarity. And the jury is still out: "Because of their overlapping phenomenology and mutually chronic, persistent nature, distinctions between bipolar disorder and cluster B personality disorders remain a source of unresolved clinical controversy."
Bipolar disorder with comorbid cluster B personality disorder features: impact on suicidality. - PubMed - NCBI

This is really a very specific spin on bipolar disorder that doesn’t match anything I know about it, and that’s all I have to add from an objective standpoint. Subjectively, I know several people with the bipolar dx, and most of them are lovely, kind, thoughtful human beings. One is a mess. None act personality-disordered.
 
Last edited:
Life-After-Death: Did Spirits Of Shan’ann Watts And Her Daughters Visit Mom After Their Murders? | Dr. Phil
Shan’ann’s mother, Sandy Rzucek, lives in North Carolina. She claims that the morning her daughter and grandchildren were killed – before anyone knew they were missing – she woke up family members in her home to tell them that she felt something was wrong with Shan’ann.

After authorities found her daughter’s body, a few days after her and the girls’ disappearance, Sandy says she felt Shan’ann’s presence in her home. “I felt her, and I heard her say, ‘I love you, Mommy, and I’m sorry.’”

Sandy claims she received another visitation from Shan’ann and her children after Celeste and Bella’s bodies were recovered.

(Watch the video in the article to hear her describe the experience.)
 
Better late than never, I finally finished listening to the prison interview.

This is one thought that came to me:

I think CW decided to kill his family about one week prior to their death. That's when he began to look for a burial location. By the end of the week, he procured the Cervi site.

I believe that his plan was to go out there on Monday to prepare the site for his chosen method of burial, followed by killing them all later that week. But things didn't go as planned.

One thing that stood out for me in his prison interview is this- he felt Shanann would lock him out when he tried to come home after work. I think Shanann really told him that.
She was anxious to see the restaurant receipt when she came home. She went straight to her office (her purse was found there by NUA) to look for the receipt she had previously requested from CW. She saw the receipt and all hell broke loose.

I think she told him to move out that day. He had to kill her earlier than planned. His original plan probably was better.
 
Life-After-Death: Did Spirits Of Shan’ann Watts And Her Daughters Visit Mom After Their Murders? | Dr. Phil
Shan’ann’s mother, Sandy Rzucek, lives in North Carolina. She claims that the morning her daughter and grandchildren were killed – before anyone knew they were missing – she woke up family members in her home to tell them that she felt something was wrong with Shan’ann.

After authorities found her daughter’s body, a few days after her and the girls’ disappearance, Sandy says she felt Shan’ann’s presence in her home. “I felt her, and I heard her say, ‘I love you, Mommy, and I’m sorry.’”

Sandy claims she received another visitation from Shan’ann and her children after Celeste and Bella’s bodies were recovered.

(Watch the video in the article to hear her describe the experience.)

I have no problem believing she saw and heard them. As she said, it saved her life. moo
 
This is really a very specific spin on bipolar disorder that doesn’t match anything I know about it, and that’s all I have to add from an objective standpoint. Subjectively, I know several people with the bipolar dx, and most of them are lovely, kind, thoughtful human beings. One is a mess. None act personality-disordered.
Hmmm. Your experience is almost the exact opposite of mine. ( Although yes I too have met wonderful people with Manic-Depression, ( an antiquated term for Bi-polar I know, but I prefer it, "if it an't broke don't fix it!"), But you have got me thinking now, and I did find an interesting article on manipulative personality traits, ( not necessarily related to mental illness) :
What Makes Someone a Master Manipulator?
 
There have been a number of articles regarding FA specific to this case.

Thanks!

I was interested in some of the non-CW articles mainly to find common threads between him and other family annihilators. I've seen opinions floating around that CW isn't like those other killers, that somehow he was victimized (by SW) or was coerced (by NK) or that the patches were the cause. The history of family annihilators and their pathology suggests there are other factors that led to CW premeditating these vicious murders specific to his upbringing and personality. The theory that he doesn't fit the FBI profile, in multiple ways, just doesn't ring true.
 
WOW. You don't know psychological aspects do you. Yes, I believe momma Watts caused alot of this, period.

It may very well be that some combination of how his mother was raised and her own genetic profile made her into the kind of person she is, too. Doesn’t ultimately excuse it, and I think it is pretty obvious that something is quite wrong there, given strictly her own statements and the basic facts of her behavior that are not in dispute.

Meanwhile, the Rzuceks don’t need to be perfect people, just human beings, fallible like everyone else, but essentially loving and decent, and it appears that they are.

It’s also no secret that psychopaths/sociopaths tend to gravitate toward people who are basically good and unsuspecting. Even now, the Rzuceks come across as quite naive about his mindset in saying they would have taken the girls, and CW could have just gotten a divorce. While that would be absolutely the case if he’d been normal, he absolutely was not. He was not thinking that way at all. It seems like it’s very hard for them to make sense of his behavior because it’s so alien to how they think.
 
How much you wanna bet Ma Watts told hubby to do that.

My random thought was that she may have wanted some props for future interviews had CW decided not to plea guilty and take responsibility for all the murders.

"See these trophys? And these jerseys? My son got these in high school! He was a good boy! Everyone says so! >>insert reasons why SW did it here << "
 
Thanks!

I was interested in some of the non-CW articles mainly to find common threads between him and other family annihilators. I've seen opinions floating around that CW isn't like those other killers, that somehow he was victimized (by SW) or was coerced (by NK) or that the patches were the cause. The history of family annihilators and their pathology suggests there are other factors that led to CW premeditating these vicious murders specific to his upbringing and personality. The theory that he doesn't fit the FBI profile, in multiple ways, just doesn't ring true.
Yeah. There were some of the same common factors in play.

Financial trouble, marital trouble (affair), and his age (most in their 30s).

He felt trapped, especially with another child on the way.

Many of these people have similar family dynamics in their upbringings.

That’s why @gitana1 was able to explain what his family would be like, before we ever met them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
213
Guests online
1,382
Total visitors
1,595

Forum statistics

Threads
589,167
Messages
17,914,849
Members
227,741
Latest member
Drury Lane
Back
Top