CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

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girlhasnoname said:
Okay, I'm prepared to get bombarded by the crowd j/k but I think it's possible that PF handed Baby K off to someone after he left KB's townhome the first time. I know KK said PF said she was there in her playpen in the back bedroom, and I know we have surveillance footage of him with the baby carrier <remember him and RS went back to make sure that PF was spotted at some point on his Walmart run with baby K> maybe it was just an empty carrier with a toy or doll in it.

Baby K could have well been at MommaF's ranchette that afternoon taken there by a caring fatherly type figure or picked up by someone else. Something about PF standing there in the middle of Walmart wanting to be seen by the CCTV with the car seat sends my hinky meter into the red zone.

If PF sent Baby K off to MommaF's and went back to KB's townhome to a napping or sleeping KB I can see how he could sneak right back in quietly and bludgeon her. I can see how he would then have spent a couple hours there in peace without worrying about baby K. It would have made cleaning up, removing KB from the townhome and transporting her to Nash ranch or wherever he put her much easier. Just think if you were trying to pull this off with a cranky, hungry, wet and tired 1 year old???

Call me crazy, but this is what I believe could have very well happened. I think it could have been one of 3 people in my mind.

All just my speculation.
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bbm
Perhaps there is indeed no little K in the baby carrier, as I can't see her. Maybe, PF had a meeting point at Walmart with another person and this unknown person had just gone to the diaper changing room with little K? He was waiting (relaxed foot position, maybe leaning against a shelf) for them to return. IF, I wouldn't think of SF (she was cooking her TG dinner) but a female person, who would be able to take little K on her arms to the WC room. Could have been little K's auntie (the tall one from court) perhaps, if she was there for TG visiting at her mother's. - My thoughts now.
 
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JenniD said:
ImPossible to keep up with this thread so can someone update me on the story regarding finding “teeth” in an envelope at PF house
Was that true and if so what’s the story on that?
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Yes, they found teeth. The items recovered from the F ranchette are listed in the Execution pdf for SW111 items:

#28 teeth
#35 4 teeth in small envelope and 1 tooth, totalling 5 teeth

The SW111 was dated Dec 14 and executed over F-S-Su Dec 14-15-16.

This is befor KK gave her statement Dec 20 on a 4.5 hour videotape with her lawyer present, including her statement about a tooth with root in KB's floor vent. ALL MOO
 
NWLady said:
BBM - Thanks for that, I hope it holds true in this case! I will have to look over the search warrants again to see if there was any served for any phone that could have possibly been a burner phone of KK's. I don't recall seeing that specifically but it's hard to remember it all. And I do see that in June 2018 the Supreme Court ruled on use of cell phones for tracking, location, etc and that there are certain circumstances that apply where there is no warrant needed.

And thanks, I do realize "all phones have phone numbers, and require cell towers to trasmit phone calls and texts." LOL :)
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I am no expert but a few weeks ago someone on here responded who seemed to know to this kind of speculation that by the time they were on to KK, etc. and had PF's phone and had any hint of burners that this window was lost. It might explain the lack of warrants regarding other numbers. Or no returns. Not sure which is true. I also do not know how they would get burner to burner numbers if never provided and disposed of nor ever used to call any other number. They stated that the window of time was too late for a cell tower dump. I do not remember who it was. So just offering what I read, I cannot say whether it is fact. jmo.
 
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I’m not sure I have ever followed a case where a person that was there during the actual act of murder was given such a sweet deal and reduced charge of tampering with evidence.

Who knows maybe this will be a first.....
 
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ab01 said:
I’m not sure I have ever followed a case where a person that was there during the act of murder was given a deal and reduced charge of tampering with evidence.

Who knows maybe this will be a first.....
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Ha! That’s because that doesn’t happen.

We see reduced charges in those circumstances, but nothing like this.

There is absolutely no evidence that KK was in Colorado, merely speculation that “she could have been,” or that “there could be evidence that she was.”

We saw similar theories in the Watts case, ones based on the theory that evidence could theoretically exist.

That’s not how it works.
 
ab01 said:
It’s gotta be highly insulting to LE I’m sure to hear the public say that KK was the murderer.

There is no logic to be made for the prosecution to offer a deal like this to KK if LE hadn’t already verified that she was not present when KB was murdered.

Additionally I don’t care what the jury thinks of kk. The biggest benefit she has provided to the prosecution is hard evidence against PF.

KB blood on things found inside The Franch.

All PFs lies about whereabouts, lies to CB. Lies to Doss that KB was a drug addict etc

Phone data, including phone ping locations.

The cadaver dog hit on a location on RS ranch.

Oh and PF was the last one to see KB alive.

The defense can try to implicate kk all they want to, but the evidence still points to PF as KBs murderer. I’m not sure how implicating KK makes PF seem any less guilty in the eyes of a jury

Moo
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I can't speak for others of course, but I do not believe KK was the murderer. However, I am not yet convinced that she wasn't either present when it took place and at the least, was not in Colorado when it took place. I may be proved wrong in the end which is fine, but it is JMO that I cannot rule that out yet till further proof is revealed, which hopefully it will be at trial. And I try not to forget that KK traveled approximately 1600 miles round trip 3 times with intention to kill KB. She was supposedly along to pick the tote up from the hay bale and was present for the alleged burning of the body. These things she has admitted to LE, plus many other things, such as disposing of the phone, etc. So, am I or anyone to believe that IF KK was in Colorado the day the murder took place, then LE/investigators would not have given her a plea bargain?? They gave it to her with all the other things she admitted to.

I do care what the jury thinks of KK. It's rather obvious that her testimony is very important in the charges against PF, otherwise she wouldn't have been given the plea bargain that she got. So if her testimony is so important to this case, then in my opinion if I was a juror, I would want to believe her testimony and consider her a credible witness because she has to convince me and 11 other jury members that what she is saying is true. Because IMO, what she has to say will probably play a more important role in the conviction of PF killing KB, or at least, be just as important as other evidence they have on him.

So, I guess some of us can agree to disagree, as we all can have our own opinions and ideas of how this all unfolded, because right now and until trial, none of us know for sure.

This is all JMO, MOO

Has it been proven yet that KB's blood was found on things at the ranchette? If so, I have missed it. The last I read was that the presumptive testing of some items was positive for blood.

ETA - spelling.
 
I’ve been pondering the mop/swiffer and bleach container that tested positive for blood that LE took from the ranch and have been thinking was PF really dumb enough to transport them to/from KB’s and put them away at the ranchette?

Now it could very well be they were used to clean up cattle blood or another incident.

But it got me thinking, what if there was blood in PF’s truck that he found after he moved the tote?

We don’t know what they found in/on his vehicles. Right?

And may further explain the discoloration of the hay at Nash.

Just thinking out loud.
 
Ccging said:
I’ve been pondering the mop/swiffer and bleach container that tested positive for blood that LE took from the ranch and have been thinking was PF really dumb enough to transport them to/from KB’s and put them away at the ranchette?

Now it could very well be they were used to clean up cattle blood or another incident.

But it got me thinking, what if there was blood in PF’s truck that he found after he moved the tote?

We don’t know what they found in/on his vehicles. Right?

And may further explain the discoloration of the hay at Nash.

Just thinking out loud.
Click to expand...
Every time I find myself discounting potential evidence on account of it existing because of PF’s stupidity, I am reminded of @GordianKnot ‘s words:

“This is PF we’re talking about.”

If those items definitively test positive for Kelsey’s blood, then he’s in even more trouble.

There’s a lot of lab results yet to come back, so we’ll have to wait a while.

I agree, if that tote left blood on the hay, then it likely left blood in the bed of his truck as well.

I think he must have placed it on top of Kelsey’s blood, while he was loading her inside the container.
 
MassGuy said:
Every time I find myself discounting potential evidence on account of it existing because of PF’s stupidity, I am reminded of @GordianKnot ‘s words:

“This is PF we’re talking about.”

If those items definitively test positive for Kelsey’s blood, then he’s in even more trouble.

There’s a lot of lab results yet to come back, so we’ll have to wait a while.

I agree, if that tote left blood on the hay, then it likely left blood in the bed of his truck as well.

I think he must have placed it on top of Kelsey’s blood, while he was loading her inside the container.
Click to expand...

“Stupid is as stupid does”


-Forrest Gump-
 
NWLady said:
I can't speak for others of course, but I do not believe KK was the murderer. However, I am not yet convinced that she wasn't either present when it took place and at the least, was not in Colorado when it took place. I may be proved wrong in the end which is fine, but it is JMO that I cannot rule that out yet till further proof is revealed, which hopefully it will be at trial. And I try not to forget that KK traveled approximately 1600 miles round trip 3 times with intention to kill KB. She was supposedly along to pick the tote up from the hay bale and was present for the alleged burning of the body. These things she has admitted to LE, plus many other things, such as disposing of the phone, etc. So, am I or anyone to believe that IF KK was in Colorado the day the murder took place, then LE/investigators would not have given her a plea bargain?? They gave it to her with all the other things she admitted to.

I do care what the jury thinks of KK. It's rather obvious that her testimony is very important in the charges against PF, otherwise she wouldn't have been given the plea bargain that she got. So if her testimony is so important to this case, then in my opinion if I was a juror, I would want to believe her testimony and consider her a credible witness because she has to convince me and 11 other jury members that what she is saying is true. Because IMO, what she has to say will probably play a more important role in the conviction of PF killing KB, or at least, be just as important as other evidence they have on him.

So, I guess some of us can agree to disagree, as we all can have our own opinions and ideas of how this all unfolded, because right now and until trial, none of us know for sure.

This is all JMO, MOO

Has it been proven yet that KB's blood was found on things at the ranchette? If so, I have missed it. The last I read was that the presumptive testing of some items was positive for blood.

ETA - spelling.
Click to expand...
Only evidence given to the public of KB’s blood was in the condo.
 
MassGuy said:
Ha! That’s because that doesn’t happen.

We see reduced charges in those circumstances, but nothing like this.

There is absolutely no evidence that KK was in Colorado, merely speculation that “she could have been,” or that “there could be evidence that she was.”

We saw similar theories in the Watts case, ones based on the theory that evidence could theoretically exist.

That’s not how it works.
Click to expand...

If they find she KKL was in CO on Nov 22, would that fact void the sweet deal?
 
lindaromas said:
If they find she KKL was in CO on Nov 22, would that fact void the sweet deal?
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I can’t imagine that it would stand. That would be a huge lie, and not one of her face saving ones.

The affidavit lays out a timeline, one that does not involve her arriving in Colorado until the morning of the 24th.

Bye bye deal.
 
NWLady said:
I can't speak for others of course, but I do not believe KK was the murderer. However, I am not yet convinced that she wasn't either present when it took place and at the least, was not in Colorado when it took place. I may be proved wrong in the end which is fine, but it is JMO that I cannot rule that out yet till further proof is revealed, which hopefully it will be at trial. And I try not to forget that KK traveled approximately 1600 miles round trip 3 times with intention to kill KB. She was supposedly along to pick the tote up from the hay bale and was present for the alleged burning of the body. These things she has admitted to LE, plus many other things, such as disposing of the phone, etc. So, am I or anyone to believe that IF KK was in Colorado the day the murder took place, then LE/investigators would not have given her a plea bargain?? They gave it to her with all the other things she admitted to.

I do care what the jury thinks of KK. It's rather obvious that her testimony is very important in the charges against PF, otherwise she wouldn't have been given the plea bargain that she got. So if her testimony is so important to this case, then in my opinion if I was a juror, I would want to believe her testimony and consider her a credible witness because she has to convince me and 11 other jury members that what she is saying is true. Because IMO, what she has to say will probably play a more important role in the conviction of PF killing KB, or at least, be just as important as other evidence they have on him.

So, I guess some of us can agree to disagree, as we all can have our own opinions and ideas of how this all unfolded, because right now and until trial, none of us know for sure.

This is all JMO, MOO

Has it been proven yet that KB's blood was found on things at the ranchette? If so, I have missed it. The last I read was that the presumptive testing of some items was positive for blood.

ETA - spelling.
Click to expand...

Well said. It also fits with what a juror is expected to be. Awaiting enough evidence and the entire case. LE may very well have it, we do not. Well, at least I don't.

If I had my mind made up 100 percent as to each and every fact and event, what would possibly be the point of following this particular case? Other than to check on a verdict and the occasional update? I would look to another case.

This is a "sleuthing" site right? If the cases ended upon arrest or a preliminary then I guess it is time to move on. I have never understood a preliminary to be the trial, over and done with. It is a busy thread so apparently that is not the case.

Discussion is what I enjoy :)

And this is jmo.
 
Ccging said:
I’ve been pondering the mop/swiffer and bleach container that tested positive for blood that LE took from the ranch and have been thinking was PF really dumb enough to transport them to/from KB’s and put them away at the ranchette?

Now it could very well be they were used to clean up cattle blood or another incident.

But it got me thinking, what if there was blood in PF’s truck that he found after he moved the tote?

We don’t know what they found in/on his vehicles. Right?

And may further explain the discoloration of the hay at Nash.

Just thinking out loud.
Click to expand...
There are actually a number of common substances that can give false positives. Paints containing iron to produce "barn red" color are one thing. PF was a farrier working with horseshoes, so I expect iron ore dust around him, his boots, a floor he walks on into his home, and in his truck. Cleaning the kitchen or bathroom floor, animal blood, could be anything.

JMO until CBI comes back with something specific, I don't have much interest in the swabs from the F ranch of green swiffer, bleach bottle, Simply Green bottle, that tested "positive presumptive". Per Execution for SW111, items 63, 64, 65.

Wait & See....
 
lindaromas said:
See #63-67 all but the porch #67 were presumptive positive I believe taken from the Franch https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-111 Execution.pdf
Click to expand...

That is to make sure the substance is blood from the way I understand it. Not that it is KB's. If it is then one or both of two women might have some 'splaining to do...

The only things that are stated to relate to KB were in her townhome. And not even with all of that were the facts there yet...
 
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