GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[yawningreyhound]

Lol yep, I think all of us here know we are not giving anyone an official clinical diagnosis. (And yes, cluster B is a cluster because of overlapping features.)

Just imo when someone has done what this guy did in the way he did it, you can start with psychopathy as highly probable and work your way back. He may not be an exactly typical psychopath, but his actions fit the definition, and he may just have a more convincing persona than some do. He often sounds like the nice guy, but when I go back and look at all these videos in which he is clenching his jaw and baring his teeth in a way that does not look like a smile but like an animal aggression signal, he doesn’t really appear like one down to all the details.

^^^^THIS^^^^^ I thought I was the only one who saw CW's smile as baring teeth. I see it in some of Patrick Frazee's smiles, also.

 

[Iam Nana!]

What really is bothering me is how he seems to be enjoying prison and has it somewhat better than I imagined. He deserves no freedom and all the perks it seems he does and soon will get. I want him to suffer but it just doesn’t seem like he is.

 

[molly1255]

That was originally spread around on the YT/FB sites by the SW haters. Oh excuse me, I mean analysts. That she spent that extra time with NUA drinking, thus looked drunk when she finally decided to come home, that her plane wasn't really delayed. (No, she didn't look drunk). Yes, this is the type of rumor those people spread around, and the fact that a version of it ended up with CW telling FBI/CBI agents means that it was spread to him by, ahem, one of the 2-3 people who he talks to on the telephone. I do believe he mentioned his mother, his father and his sister who he speaks to from prison, on the phone each night.

I found what I was referring to. A little after 51 minutes into his prison interview, Coder asked CW to recount the last few minutes of Shanann's life.

CW said she got home around 2:00 a.m. and he never knew if Shanann's flight was delayed, or if Shanann had just sat around and talked to NUA.

If he'd had any doubts about why she was late that night, he could have easily looked up her flight status online. Just bizarre.

 

[opalonyx]

I listened to the interview and thought that what he really meant was talk her out of dumping him. The summary also says:

He told KESSINGER just because he had to leave didn’t mean she needed to take a
step back.​

Geez, just imagine all of the drama going on back then. You have NK having breakdowns because her lover is going home to his wife, you have SW (understandably) livid that CW refuses to stand up to his mother, you have Cindy Watts calling CW and crying on the phone and then crying to his friend on the phone when CW is mad at her. Then apparently his father was mad at him too because of the whole nutgate mess. This plus two toddlers and a new baby on the way.

It's a mess of his own making so I am not expressing sympathy. In each conflict, the common denominator is he doesn't take responsibility for himself or make any tough decisions. He is essentially watching the fire burn and sitting back and doing nothing until everything is engulfed in flames. He was pushed into making a choice on his own and he couldn't handle it. The circumstances he created caught up to him and he couldn't sit there passively any longer. And strangely, he saw the aftermath of his family going "missing" (ie murdering them and covering it up) as less of a daunting task than dealing with the fallout of his poor choices.

 

[margarita25]

August 9, 2018.

(Hmmmm...)

 

[yawningreyhound]

My quoted material didn't show up, but it was about Watts enjoying prison.....

Which brings to mind, if you all were watching the Arias trial, her assertion that her "food was all caramelized onions and everything" in Perryville. Right. You just keep on talking, just keep on.

 

[Seattle1]

I found what I was referring to. A little after 51 minutes into his prison interview, Coder asked CW to recount the last few minutes of Shanann's life.

CW said she got home around 2:00 a.m. and he never knew if Shanann's flight was delayed, or if Shanann had just sat around and talked to NUA.

If he'd had any doubts about why she was late that night, he could have easily looked up her flight status online. Just bizarre.

Agreed!

And does anybody doubt that SW didn't send him a "boarding at last" text just before going in to airplane mode.

This idea sure smells the work of CW2 and company to me.

 

[kaykay543]

Hi! I am a long time looker. I was wondering if maybe CW thought that he had to kill the girls at the site because he was worried about rigor mortis. Maybe that is why he immediately put CeCe in the tank before killing sweet Bella. He wanted to make sure they were still “warm” and able to slide in the tanks.


I hate even writing that but I’ve always wondered if that is why he killed them at the site rather than at home.

I don't think this is the reason. I don't think he had any thoughts of rigor mortis or what it does. I think he was just in a big hurry as someone could have shown up there at any minute.

 

[Pasasana]

Heres a really great video breakdown of the interrogation tactits as they are being employed on CW.

The name and explanation of each tactic is shown, as they move through them, and boy, does it do a great job of showing how very, very skilled thse two agents were!

All three parts are great. I linked them here, but they were removed.

 

[NuttMegg]

Another thing that bothers me is that the media made a big deal about SW supposedly telling him if there was a divorce he wouldn't see the kids.

But, he actually admitted to CBI/FBI that (according to him) she said that "before". No, not that night which drove him into a murdering "rage."

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Molly I heard the quote from him, too, I mean I heard him say it on the confession tape. Just a mild version of the same thing, that SW chose not to come home and that her plane was not delayed. He said he doesn't have internet, there is only one small group of people who he talks to.

No words for how despicable it is for lies to be still be created and disseminated after he has confessed and serving his life sentence. The depths of denial, hate and deception seem to know no bounds within his circle of contacts.

 

[pinkie60]

Omg. That makes perfect sense. I never would have thought of it.

Should have said it makes perfect sense in Chris's mind

What I'm thinking of is something I recall hearing CW say. If I have time later on today, I'll go back and listen to his prison interview and see if I can find it. It was very weird.

I know Shanann's flight was delayed and she was not out drinking. She was quite anxious to get home, and was hopeful things could be fixed.

He said she was crying with mascara running down her face when they were arguing. However the video of her going in the front door, she looks like she had been swimming or had taken a shower. Did not look like she had makeup on
Another thing that stuck out he said he had to change the sheet because her bowels released, yet she was wearing underwear when her body was recovered. Seems odd he would have put underwear on her
I hate to mention these things but he mentioned the odor in the truck. Does a body start smelling that soon ? I wondered if he killed her more around 2:30 and carried her outside then and the body was in the truck a few hours before taking off for cervi

 

[Seattle1]

All three parts are great. I linked them here, but they were removed.

Agree, and thanks for earlier reference.

I also believe the same extremely valuable to all that were upset with the agents (misunderstood) approach on 2/18/19.

 

[NuttMegg]

Originally he most likely did just want to have his cake and eat it too. Possibly, NK maybe gave him an ultimatum. If so, what was that ultimatum? MOO

It's hard to put together coherently, because that's not the way he speaks. But, the emphasis he put on....he should have gone to the game with his buddy, none of this would have happened..........told NK no that night, that all hell would not have broken lose. Broken lose on him of course as everything is passive for him, he doesn't cause anything. But the point I'm making is that he mentioned that several times, IIRC, which leads me to believe that something important happened that Saturday night aside from using the blue credit card which meant SW would see the charge. IE your suggestion of an ultimatum.

SW was home for a week or so, and that so far there was not a single move towards divorce that he could show her, well I believe she said something like:

Leave her or I'm out of here. And, if it weren't for her kids we could spend the night together, you didn't even tell me before that you had to be home at 10. Fix it, or we're history.

Plus he talked to her that Sunday night for nearly 2 hours, IIRC.

Situation reaching maximum drama by the time she walked through the door.

I know I've mentioned a version of this before, but I think Saturday was one of the times he "talked her off the ledge". They went to 2 different restaurants because she didn't like the menu or the seating arrangements...she was having a snit fit, clear to me.

 

[DaisyKenny]

Another thing that bothers me is that the media made a big deal about SW supposedly telling him if there was a divorce he wouldn't see the kids.

But, he actually admitted to CBI/FBI that (according to him) she said that "before". No, not that night which drove him into a murdering "rage."

I am certain she never threatened that he wouldn't see his kids. That was the lie he was going to use to explain their disappearance if his original plan had worked.

 

[Seattle1]

Should have said it makes perfect sense in Chris's mind


He said she was crying with mascara running down her face when they were arguing. However the video of her going in the front door, she looks like she had been swimming or had taken a shower. Did not look like she had makeup on
Another thing that stuck out he said he had to change the sheet because her bowels released, yet she was wearing underwear when her body was recovered. Seems odd he would have put underwear on her
I hate to mention these things but he mentioned the odor in the truck. Does a body start smelling that soon ? I wondered if he killed her more around 2:30 and carried her outside then and the body was in the truck a few hours before taking off for cervi

I believe CW clarified the "odor" Bella cited as roadside
skunk -- which is very common in early mornings in outer town area near Cervi.

 

[NuttMegg]

delete

 

[ZsaZsa]

I realize that the agents were 'playing' him with their flattery and ol' Einstein didn't even know it, although I'm sure he has figured it out now- but I so wish that at the end of the day after they had got all the information the Rzuceks wanted, they could have stuck the knife in just a bit. Just do some brutally plain speaking and leave him with some pithy thoughts to ruminate on.... It would have made a big difference to how I feel about that day, to hear SOME recrimination. So much to say to him and they said essentially nothing.

 

[scdiv]

Honestly, I doubt it. One of my favorite movie quotes (from Bull Durham) applies here:

"The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness."

This is such a good quote!

And started off with the disarmingly easy questions asking about affairs they suspect he didn't actually have...MOO

Oh, good point! Especially because it created some light hearted banter over that somewhat of an odd character guy who inserted himself into this case. It wasn't just a question about an affair CW didn't actually have - it was also a little bit of "hahaha, could ya believe that dude!" bonding. Tammy was like, "I interviewed him!" And I think that little conversation helped put Chris at ease that they believed him, were bantering with him, and not out to "get" him.

I liked an assessment Dr. Phil made in Monday's episode about how the narcissist in this case only sees things from their own perspective so they get so caught off guard when asked about any loose ends or things that don't make sense. It totally fit how CW acted right after the murders and sounded like a total moron when asked easy questions. He had no idea. He really hadn't thought about it. Like we've discussed on this board as well - it seemed like he kind of just expected that people would believe whatever he told them. As if someone would really respond, "Ah, so you think she just kinda vanished? The kids are going to a different school? You're moving? Oh, okay. Have a good day." Instead, NUA from the very start and LE was like, "Well where did she go? What friend's house? What about the CeCe's medication? Why would she leave her phone??" And CW looked like a deer in headlights. "Uh....." He never stopped to see how it would look from anyone else's perspective. Dr. Phil explains it a lot better than me, but I had an aha moment when he said that.

 

[NuttMegg]

I believe CW clarified the "odor" Bella cited as roadside
skunk -- which is very common in early mornings in outer town area near Cervi.

IIRC he said "maybe" it was skunk or something. Leaving it unclear.