GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[molly1255]

Yes - thank you for your concern. I have cameras everywhere, keep in contact with people regularly so they'll know something is up if I don't show up or they don't hear from me, I also have "GPS" on all sorts of things including a pair of shoes I wear often. I don't have a gun because I believe that would be used against me in court (the court system needs some major reform!) I think at this stage he knows he'd be suspect number one so he'll only actually do it if he's done living life out in the real world....Which is a choice I expect him to make someday. A setting like prison with its routine and rules that everyone follows is where he'd actually finally be able to exhale for the first time and truly be himself.

Our society needs to understand people like CW and my ex. Women (and men) need to learn to trust the red flags. I had soooooo many of them its insane when I look back. But I thought he was cute and financially stable etc. SW had red flags too. Sounds like she had them on day one. I wish she had listened to herself. I wish I had listened to myself.

It's good to hear you have taken very good steps. We do need to be able to spot red flags, and we need to also trust our instincts. We were given our instincts for very good reason.

 

[ZsaZsa]

It's hard to put together coherently, because that's not the way he speaks. But, the emphasis he put on....he should have gone to the game with his buddy, none of this would have happened..........told NK no that night, that all hell would not have broken lose. Broken lose on him of course as everything is passive for him, he doesn't cause anything. But the point I'm making is that he mentioned that several times, IIRC, which leads me to believe that something important happened that Saturday night aside from using the blue credit card which meant SW would see the charge. IE your suggestion of an ultimatum.

SW was home for a week or so, and that so far there was not a single move towards divorce that he could show her, well I believe she said something like:

Leave her or I'm out of here. And, if it weren't for her kids we could spend the night together, you didn't even tell me before that you had to be home at 10. Fix it, or we're history.

Plus he talked to her that Sunday night for nearly 2 hours, IIRC.

Situation reaching maximum drama by the time she walked through the door.

I know I've mentioned a version of this before, but I think Saturday was one of the times he "talked her off the ledge". They went to 2 different restaurants because she didn't like the menu or the seating arrangements...she was having a snit fit, clear to me.

Oh yes. I am SURE there was an ultimatum, hence the immediate instruction from her to delete all contact with her from his phone.

 

[JenniferTx]

I can't let go of the mistress being involved in some way with the murders. I also am will to risk my own life that CW premeditated the murders and NK knew about what he was planning on murdering his family. Why would NK have been googling Amber Frey's book deal information that Amber wrote after the Scott Peterson trial? NK knew darn good and well what CW was planning on doing. If she didn't then why google how much money Amber Frey made from her book deal? NK is not going to be able to lie her way out of those google searches and also scoping out wedding dresses online. Has she never heard of FORENSIC COMPUTER ANALYSIS???? I think NK is just as dumb as CW. NK also had to have known that CW would have been caught because that is the reason for the Amber Frey book deal searches on google.
In the Dr. Phil interview I'm pretty sure they all know that LE isn't done looking into what NK knows. I don't think we have heard that last of NK in the news. She will be back in the news and it won't be good for her.

 

[MassGuy]

I can't let go of the mistress being involved in some way with the murders. I also am will to risk my own life that CW premeditated the murders and NK knew about what he was planning on murdering his family. Why would NK have been googling Amber Frey's book deal information that Amber wrote after the Scott Peterson trial? NK knew darn good and well what CW was planning on doing. If she didn't then why google how much money Amber Frey made from her book deal? NK is not going to be able to lie her way out of those google searches and also scoping out wedding dresses online. Has she never heard of FORENSIC COMPUTER ANALYSIS???? I think NK is just as dumb as CW. NK also had to have known that CW would have been caught because that is the reason for the Amber Frey book deal searches on google.
In the Dr. Phil interview I'm pretty sure they all know that LE isn't done looking into what NK knows. I don't think we have heard that last of NK in the news. She will be back in the news and it won't be good for her.

Her Google searches were done after the fact, and not before the murders.

I absolutely don’t believe she had any prior knowledge of what CW was going to do. The discovery document doesn’t provide any incriminating evidence to that effect.

She lied, and she deleted text messages that had evidentiary value, but this crime was a personal one.

She’s not an accessory to this.

 

[JenniferTx]

The more I think about it CW didn't have to kill the girls even after he killed SW. He had a long 45 minute drive to think about what he was going to do to the girls. He would have been better off just dropping them off at a fire station or even on the side of the dang road for that matter. He could have left them even at home alone. My point is that he had 45 long minutes to change his mind about killing the girls. That proves to me he had premeditated these murders almost down to the last detail. If he would have just left the girls at home he might not be as talked about as he is now. I think he also wanted the fame that goes along with being a monsterous murderer. CW is seriously a scary being. I also don't believe that the thrive made him do this either. Don't thousands of people use that stuff? I haven't heard of thousands of people killing their families. Actually I had never even heard of "thrive" until this case.

 

[Colorfuel]

I realize that the agents were 'playing' him with their flattery and ol' Einstein didn't even know it, although I'm sure he has figured it out now- but I so wish that at the end of the day after they had got all the information the Rzuceks wanted, they could have stuck the knife in just a bit. Just do some brutally plain speaking and leave him with some pithy thoughts to ruminate on.... It would have made a big difference to how I feel about that day, to hear SOME recrimination. So much to say to him and they said essentially nothing.

Ha, that would have been nice. To be honest, I think what they did is kind of what sociopaths/psychopaths do, though. They leave things unresolved and unclear, and put the onus on you to interpret what they were doing and why. (I think it gives them more strategic leeway.) And isn't that why we're still here even after his extensive interviews, trying to think all this through? So I'm kind of glad they gave him some of his own medicine.

 

[Colorfuel]

The more I think about it CW didn't have to kill the girls even after he killed SW. He had a long 45 minute drive to think about what he was going to do to the girls. He would have been better off just dropping them off at a fire station or even on the side of the dang road for that matter. He could have left them even at home alone. My point is that he had 45 long minutes to change his mind about killing the girls. That proves to me he had premeditated these murders almost down to the last detail. If he would have just left the girls at home he
might not be as talked about as he is now. I think he also wanted the fame that goes along with being a monsterous murderer. CW is seriously a scary being. I also don't believe that the thrive made him do this either. Don't thousands of people use that stuff? I haven't heard of thousands of people killing their families. Actually I had never even heard of "thrive" until this case.

Mm, yeah, legal minds correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that 45-minute drive is absolutely a way to show that he was not acting from a mindset of passion, but was being very methodical. IOW, we know he had 45 minutes to premeditate the first girl's murder, at an absolute minimum.

Just dropping them off wouldn't have worked, unfortunately, for his plan. He actually did think he could get away with killing his family and moving on to a new life without them.

 

[yawningreyhound]

I realize that the agents were 'playing' him with their flattery and ol' Einstein didn't even know it, although I'm sure he has figured it out now- but I so wish that at the end of the day after they had got all the information the Rzuceks wanted, they could have stuck the knife in just a bit. Just do some brutally plain speaking and leave him with some pithy thoughts to ruminate on.... It would have made a big difference to how I feel about that day, to hear SOME recrimination. So much to say to him and they said essentially nothing.

Like maybe they could've described to him again the process of removing the girls from the oil. Leave those images in his mind for a while.

 

[jking]

The more I think about it CW didn't have to kill the girls even after he killed SW. He had a long 45 minute drive to think about what he was going to do to the girls. He would have been better off just dropping them off at a fire station or even on the side of the dang road for that matter. He could have left them even at home alone. My point is that he had 45 long minutes to change his mind about killing the girls. That proves to me he had premeditated these murders almost down to the last detail. If he would have just left the girls at home he might not be as talked about as he is now. I think he also wanted the fame that goes along with being a monsterous murderer. CW is seriously a scary being. I also don't believe that the thrive made him do this either. Don't thousands of people use that stuff? I haven't heard of thousands of people killing their families. Actually I had never even heard of "thrive" until this case.

I had thought about him just dropping the girls off somewhere in the middle of nowhere. At least they would have had a chance to survive. Or he could have just left them home and told them he was taking their mom to the hospital. They were still young enough that he could have convinced them everything was alright and that mom was going away for a while. The fact is that he wanted them all gone.

 

[felix5]

I had a couple of sociopathic type guys in my past. It was horrible and I know I’m lucky I got trashed financially and knocked about here and there only. I recovered.

My sister though is the worst one of all my experiences. I believe without a shadow of a doubt she could kill (Jodi Arias made my hair stand on end - stikingly similar). My mother is her flying monkey.

The terrifying thing is how many there are. They’re everywhere.

I think the scary thing for me about Watts is that this is where they can take you when you don’t RUN.

I recognize those dead eyes all too well.

I just remembered another similarity that's freaky - my ex's Mom was a complete psycho when our wedding was approaching. She said things like "lets go shopping for coffins instead" when it was time to shop for his tux because him marrying me was going to "kill her" etc. (My big crime was not being Fundamental Baptist). She said she wasn't going to come to the wedding but then showed up anyway - we had to scramble to find her a seat ! She left the reception after about 15 minutes to zero fan fare. When it was clear her son "loved" me and I was in it for the long-haul, she changed her tune and was mother-in-law of the year - that we only saw about twice a year even though she was local. When my marriage ended - she played a huge role in it all. She is what my therapist calls a "flying monkey" for my ex (like the wicked witch of the west's flying monkeys). She even physically assaulted me in my own home. I truly believe Cindy would have been terrible if there was a divorce. Downright evil.

Sorry I keep sharing personal stuff but I can't get over how similar it all is...I've been blessed in that I am aware my ex is capable of murdering me. I wait for him to come. I think Shannan saw his mask come off in the end and THAT is why he killed her. These people have to destroy the person who knows what's really in their soul.

 

[yawningreyhound]

This is such a good quote!


Oh, good point! Especially because it created some light hearted banter over that somewhat of an odd character guy who inserted himself into this case. It wasn't just a question about an affair CW didn't actually have - it was also a little bit of "hahaha, could ya believe that dude!" bonding. Tammy was like, "I interviewed him!" And I think that little conversation helped put Chris at ease that they believed him, were bantering with him, and not out to "get" him.

I liked an assessment Dr. Phil made in Monday's episode about how the narcissist in this case only sees things from their own perspective so they get so caught off guard when asked about any loose ends or things that don't make sense. It totally fit how CW acted right after the murders and sounded like a total moron when asked easy questions. He had no idea. He really hadn't thought about it. Like we've discussed on this board as well - it seemed like he kind of just expected that people would believe whatever he told them. As if someone would really respond, "Ah, so you think she just kinda vanished? The kids are going to a different school? You're moving? Oh, okay. Have a good day." Instead, NUA from the very start and LE was like, "Well where did she go? What friend's house? What about the CeCe's medication? Why would she leave her phone??" And CW looked like a deer in headlights. "Uh....." He never stopped to see how it would look from anyone else's perspective. Dr. Phil explains it a lot better than me, but I had an aha moment when he said that.

REading this, I'm still wondering if CW thought he'd be able to get home and tie up those loose ends somehow after the Cervi trip. Like the car going somewhere and the meds/purse/phone removed? He really did not make a backup plan to any of it. You'd think he would've figured out the doctor's appt, too; he did remember the girls started "school" that day. The doctor's appt and lack of contact with Nichole A seemed to be the keys to this quick Where is Shanann activity.

 

[yawningreyhound]

I had thought about him just dropping the girls off somewhere in the middle of nowhere. At least they would have had a chance to survive. Or he could have just left them home and told them he was taking their mom to the hospital. They were still young enough that he could have convinced them everything was alright and that mom was going away for a while. The fact is that he wanted them all gone.

And with or without murdering the girls, CW was toast; talk about a state of denial.

 

[pocketaccent]

I found what I was referring to. A little after 51 minutes into his prison interview, Coder asked CW to recount the last few minutes of Shanann's life.

CW said she got home around 2:00 a.m. and he never knew if Shanann's flight was delayed, or if Shanann had just sat around and talked to NUA.

If he'd had any doubts about why she was late that night, he could have easily looked up her flight status online. Just bizarre.

I'm thinking CW had a bit more rational plan than what had actually transpired (looks like a teenager plan). He is evil but an adult, not a 15 year old.

So maybe he didn't care at all what time Shanann came home that morning. Totally unimportant to him whether she arrived on time or even a day late. Because he wasn't planning to kill her or the children that morning. His only plan for Monday was to prepare the oil site for 3.5 bodies to come later that week? Pre-dig a grave or open up the bottom section of the tank so even Shanann's body would be able to fit in? Maybe his plan was to empty out the tank? Did it take a long time for LEs to empty the tank? I don't remember.

But he had to kill her that morning because Shanann was fiercely fighting back and taking actions to have her adulterous husband removed from her home. Maybe she even threw down the stairs some of his clothes which were found by the detective the same day. CW sure looked nervous when asked about it and lied that those were to be donated.

If he gets kicked out, he would have less chance to kill them and even if he did, suspicions would fall squarely on him. So he had to kill her even though he wasn't fully prepared to do so. He really was in a rage and a panic mode. Hmm, maybe not in a rage, but in absolute fear that he wouldn't be able to carry out his plan.

Not only he is evil, he is an unlucky man. He couldn't fully carry out his premeditated murder plan. This too, is Shanann's fault in his warped mind, no doubt.

 

[NuttMegg]

about 1:40 in the tapes....he's complaining about getting crude oil on his clothes once in the past, and had a headache for 2 weeks...That's why he had extra clothes and boots...to change into in case he got dirty.

 

[scdiv]

REading this, I'm still wondering if CW thought he'd be able to get home and tie up those loose ends somehow after the Cervi trip. Like the car going somewhere and the meds/purse/phone removed? He really did not make a backup plan to any of it. You'd think he would've figured out the doctor's appt, too; he did remember the girls started "school" that day. The doctor's appt and lack of contact with Nichole A seemed to be the keys to this quick Where is Shanann activity.

I know! But then he claimed that SW took the girls on a playdate? On the first day of school? He put no thought into his cover stories. But I honestly don't think he had any idea that anyone would even notice that quickly that they were "missing."

 

[Sassafrass]

It may very well be that some combination of how his mother was raised and her own genetic profile made her into the kind of person she is, too. Doesn’t ultimately excuse it, and I think it is pretty obvious that something is quite wrong there, given strictly her own statements and the basic facts of her behavior that are not in dispute.

Meanwhile, the Rzuceks don’t need to be perfect people, just human beings, fallible like everyone else, but essentially loving and decent, and it appears that they are.

It’s also no secret that psychopaths/sociopaths tend to gravitate toward people who are basically good and unsuspecting. Even now, the Rzuceks come across as quite naive about his mindset in saying they would have taken the girls, and CW could have just gotten a divorce. While that would be absolutely the case if he’d been normal, he absolutely was not. He was not thinking that way at all. It seems like it’s very hard for them to make sense of his behavior because it’s so alien to how they think.

Good point. Anyone who's done a dance with a narcissist (and isn't one themselves) knows that *they don't function like other people* (same for any sociopath, I suppose). Their whole orientation is so backward and inside-out from how basically good people raised by good people were taught. I have found it is basically impossible to be too cynical about what they will do to get what they want.

 

[ScHoLaR oF STuFF]

At the beginning of the first audio recording, one of the male investigators explains to CW that his case is over and nothing they are going to talk about has anything to do with an open investigation. All of their cases are closed, the core case is closed, and they want to make sure CW understands that that’s not why they’re there.

AUDIO FILES:

Chris Watts interview Part 1

Chris Watts interview Part 2

oh, thankyou! i very much appreciated your pointing this out.
i'd listened to the five part confession tapes but missed the opening..
i went into them with a comment from shannon family lawyer on Dr. phils friday episode mentioning the latest interview confessions were perhaps part of an investigation that's going on....

the lawyer's comments are here @26:14
link below as its not embeddable media...
Exclusive: Chris Watts’ Full Confession. His Daughter’s Final Words

 

[DaisyKenny]

REading this, I'm still wondering if CW thought he'd be able to get home and tie up those loose ends somehow after the Cervi trip. Like the car going somewhere and the meds/purse/phone removed? He really did not make a backup plan to any of it. You'd think he would've figured out the doctor's appt, too; he did remember the girls started "school" that day. The doctor's appt and lack of contact with Nichole A seemed to be the keys to this quick Where is Shanann activity.

IMO he left her purse, phone, meds, etc at the house because he was planning to put them in her Lexus and abandon it later that day. Even though he probably knew about the truck gps, he thought they wouldn't look at his worksite once the abandoned car was located.
Of course, they still would have. Frank Rzucek even said to Dr Phil that NOT ONCE in the 15 months that he and Sandy lived at their house did CW back his truck up like that before work.

 

[human]

I can't let go of the mistress being involved in some way with the murders. I also am will to risk my own life that CW premeditated the murders and NK knew about what he was planning on murdering his family. Why would NK have been googling Amber Frey's book deal information that Amber wrote after the Scott Peterson trial? NK knew darn good and well what CW was planning on doing. If she didn't then why google how much money Amber Frey made from her book deal? NK is not going to be able to lie her way out of those google searches and also scoping out wedding dresses online. Has she never heard of FORENSIC COMPUTER ANALYSIS???? I think NK is just as dumb as CW. NK also had to have known that CW would have been caught because that is the reason for the Amber Frey book deal searches on google.
In the Dr. Phil interview I'm pretty sure they all know that LE isn't done looking into what NK knows. I don't think we have heard that last of NK in the news. She will be back in the news and it won't be good for her.

So she would be happy to srick with a guy who is willing to murder his family?

 

[DaisyKenny]

This is such a good quote!


Oh, good point! Especially because it created some light hearted banter over that somewhat of an odd character guy who inserted himself into this case. It wasn't just a question about an affair CW didn't actually have - it was also a little bit of "hahaha, could ya believe that dude!" bonding. Tammy was like, "I interviewed him!" And I think that little conversation helped put Chris at ease that they believed him, were bantering with him, and not out to "get" him.

I liked an assessment Dr. Phil made in Monday's episode about how the narcissist in this case only sees things from their own perspective so they get so caught off guard when asked about any loose ends or things that don't make sense. It totally fit how CW acted right after the murders and sounded like a total moron when asked easy questions. He had no idea. He really hadn't thought about it. Like we've discussed on this board as well - it seemed like he kind of just expected that people would believe whatever he told them. As if someone would really respond, "Ah, so you think she just kinda vanished? The kids are going to a different school? You're moving? Oh, okay. Have a good day." Instead, NUA from the very start and LE was like, "Well where did she go? What friend's house? What about the CeCe's medication? Why would she leave her phone??" And CW looked like a deer in headlights. "Uh....." He never stopped to see how it would look from anyone else's perspective. Dr. Phil explains it a lot better than me, but I had an aha moment when he said that.

Thanks for posting this. It really explains a lot.