GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[kakadu]

And he so kindly decided not to end his life in the oil fields because it could have started a fire and hurt other people. Seriously. This guy is a friggin worthless selfish lying .

I really doubt he wanted to commit suicide. IMO he took the gas can because he initially had no plan how to get rid of his family. Maybe burning was an option. He had just killed his entire family, why should he worry about hurting other people. On the contrary, maybe he was afraid that the flames might alert other people and dismissed the idea. JMO

 

[Sassafrass]

I believe it. People convicted of a crime are routinely administered IQ exams by forensic psychologists.

Additionally, there is a correlation between a high IQ and disorders that involve a lack of empathy.

For example, Ted Kaczynski, the unabomber, had a genius IQ of 167 and a lack of empathy.

There is somewhat of a correlation (but remember, not a causation). There are many highly intelligent people walking around today that do possess a lack of empathy... However, not all of them commit a crime nor harm people.

Plenty of our most famous serial killers had marginal-to-average IQs.

If CW had an IQ of 135 or 140, he was a HUGE underachiever. And his mode of expression in his interviews doesn't suggest any level of superior or genius intellect.

 

[ScHoLaR oF STuFF]

I can't let go of the mistress being involved in some way with the murders. I also am will to risk my own life that CW premeditated the murders and NK knew about what he was planning on murdering his family. Why would NK have been googling Amber Frey's book deal information that Amber wrote after the Scott Peterson trial? NK knew darn good and well what CW was planning on doing. If she didn't then why google how much money Amber Frey made from her book deal? NK is not going to be able to lie her way out of those google searches and also scoping out wedding dresses online. Has she never heard of FORENSIC COMPUTER ANALYSIS???? I think NK is just as dumb as CW. NK also had to have known that CW would have been caught because that is the reason for the Amber Frey book deal searches on google.
In the Dr. Phil interview I'm pretty sure they all know that LE isn't done looking into what NK knows. I don't think we have heard that last of NK in the news. She will be back in the news and it won't be good for her.

just reading your post sent chills up my spine, because those are my sentiments also.

and to hear chris watt's lament he hasn't been in touch with NK and chuckle aloud that perhaps she may use an alias to post mail to him is both sickening an alarming.....because legally NK can.

i joked early on once it's too bad chris watts and jodi arias hadn't found love in each others arms, then two other good people would still be walking the earth alive. of course this was before all the talk of NK's suspicious amber frey internet searches...

i hope my watts/arias joke doesnt become prophetic, and watts mistress deep down as vile as arias is amongst us.

...makes me think of chilling comment made by nancy grace one, that's NEVER left me..
"somewhere out there tonight, the devil is dancing"

 

[Sassafrass]

Yes - thank you for your concern. I have cameras everywhere, keep in contact with people regularly so they'll know something is up if I don't show up or they don't hear from me, I also have "GPS" on all sorts of things including a pair of shoes I wear often. I don't have a gun because I believe that would be used against me in court (the court system needs some major reform!) I think at this stage he knows he'd be suspect number one so he'll only actually do it if he's done living life out in the real world....Which is a choice I expect him to make someday. A setting like prison with its routine and rules that everyone follows is where he'd actually finally be able to exhale for the first time and truly be himself.

Our society needs to understand people like CW and my ex. Women (and men) need to learn to trust the red flags. I had soooooo many of them its insane when I look back. But I thought he was cute and financially stable etc. SW had red flags too. Sounds like she had them on day one. I wish she had listened to herself. I wish I had listened to myself.

I could not agree more with your comment about learning red flags and trusting your gut on them. And on the "self" side, know you have boundaries, know what they are, know you deserve them, know that narcissists' and sociopaths' very existence is predicated on transgressing other people's boundarues, and do NOT make excuses when those red flags appear. And don't feel guilty for having missed them in the first place, but be ruthless once you do.

 

[Deleted member 239597]

AUGUST 21, 2018: Professor: Christopher Watts could be a psychopath
Kim Gorgens, a clinical professor in the graduate school of professional psychology at the University of Denver, has conducted extensive research on criminal behavior, and she believes Christopher Watts could be a psychopath.

"It's not a personality characteristic that you can pick out of a lineup. It's not like someone wears a sign that says you can't trust. In fact, it's the opposite of that," said Gorgens.

"You can't tell for sure, but I will be less than surprised to see the picture of a true psychopath emerge. Someone who is really winsome, charming and psychopathic. It's not unusual for them to evade detection," said Gorgens.

AUGUST 17, 2018: Man Accused of Slaying Pregnant Wife & Kids Is 'Scott Peterson, Just Less Charismatic': Profiler
“He has an incredibly large ego,” says Dale Yeager, a criminal analyst and forensic profiler who is unconnected with the case, adding, “He really comes off as sociopathic. That doesn’t mean he is mentally ill, just that he has a personality defect.”

Personality disorders - Symptoms and causes Look here for the Personality Disorders

*Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.

What do we all expect CW to do stay in the corner day in and day out in tears shivering and cowering? Some of us would like to think that a person would do that however that is NOT how true life goes. His life is in JAIL. Unfortunately some of us would want him to suffer more.

HE has stated what he did, he did show remorse and HIGH GUILT. Think about it....a man in prison confesses to treating the children like this and then killing one in front of another who did fight back? Do you know what the other prisoner's are going to do to him? And yet he confesses it. Point blank.

NOTHING this man does is going to be good enough for you all unless he hangs himself (which I do not advocate).

These personality disorders often overlap in their symptoms as well.

BPD- Borderline Personality Disorder is falling into the categories these two professionals have stated.
In my opinion only, an expert cannot base their opinion on one video of an interview of CW. So I'm not even going to take that video into consideration.

What do these people who are telling the general public this have to gain? Notoriety. Maybe money for their expert opinion. Have any of these "experts" sat down with CW for sessions for a few months to a year on end to determine that their diagnosis is indeed the correct diagnosis? I would be willing to bet the answer is, "NO".

Asburgers and Autism is a different story as they have no interrelated pattern of connecting behaviors or symptoms that largely mimic personalities' that can be hard to weed through to get to the correct diangosis.

BPD is a very real scenario here.

 

[k-mac]

I really doubt he wanted to commit suicide. IMO he took the gas can because he initially had no plan how to get rid of his family. Maybe burning was an option. He had just killed his entire family, why should he worry about hurting other people. On the contrary, maybe he was afraid that the flames might alert other people and dismissed the idea. JMO

ive always had this lingering idea that chris was planning to put shannan in one tank and the girls in the other.

that's why he took the gasoline.....
then he was gunna blow up the site like he had some sort of epic accident working there.
(don't know how he would have explained him being far enough from it as it exploded to not harm him...but hey dealing with someone killing their family and doing this in the first place....)

shanann being pregnant, I believe had had a big bubby growth spurt that last few weeks and she was much bigger than chris fantastically remembered.
she wouldn't fit in the hole.
he had to improvise and shallow bury her. (I think he was always going back to put her in the tank and then follow through with explosion imo)

the big plan (explosion) ...was stuck in a holding pattern for a few weeks.

except for NUA bless her beautiful loving impatience to find her friend xx

**all speculative of course ….but that's where I am at.

moo

 

[MassGuy]

ive always had this lingering idea that chris was planning to put shannan in one tank and the girls in the other.

that's why he took the gasoline.....
then he was gunna blow up the site like he had some sort of epic accident working there.
(don't know how he would have explained him being far enough from it as it exploded to not harm him...but hey dealing with someone killing their family and doing this in the first place....)

shanann being pregnant, I believe had had a big bubby growth spurt that last few weeks and she was much bigger than chris fantastically remembered.
she wouldn't fit in the hole.
he had to improvise and shallow bury her. (I think he was always going back to put her in the tank and then follow through with explosion imo)

the big plan (explosion) ...was stuck in a holding pattern for a few weeks.

except for NUA bless her beautiful loving impatience to find her friend xx

**all speculative of course ….but that's where I am at.

moo

I’m not so sure. Even if SW wasn’t pregnant, hell, if she was anorexic, there was no way he would have expected her to fit in an 8 inch hole.

He was intimately familiar with these tanks, and although he must have been confident that he could fit his daughters in there, I don’t think he ever had that expectation with his wife.

I think he had thought about this for a while. Atleast, on some level.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Like maybe they could've described to him again the process of removing the girls from the oil. Leave those images in his mind for a while.

Yes. Photos would have been good IMO. Conversation about the Firemen who actually retrieved his little girls, and the effect that had on them would have been appropriate.

 

[Doghairrules]

This is such a good quote!


Oh, good point! Especially because it created some light hearted banter over that somewhat of an odd character guy who inserted himself into this case. It wasn't just a question about an affair CW didn't actually have - it was also a little bit of "hahaha, could ya believe that dude!" bonding. Tammy was like, "I interviewed him!" And I think that little conversation helped put Chris at ease that they believed him, were bantering with him, and not out to "get" him.

I liked an assessment Dr. Phil made in Monday's episode about how the narcissist in this case only sees things from their own perspective so they get so caught off guard when asked about any loose ends or things that don't make sense. It totally fit how CW acted right after the murders and sounded like a total moron when asked easy questions. He had no idea. He really hadn't thought about it. Like we've discussed on this board as well - it seemed like he kind of just expected that people would believe whatever he told them. As if someone would really respond, "Ah, so you think she just kinda vanished? The kids are going to a different school? You're moving? Oh, okay. Have a good day." Instead, NUA from the very start and LE was like, "Well where did she go? What friend's house? What about the CeCe's medication? Why would she leave her phone??" And CW looked like a deer in headlights. "Uh....." He never stopped to see how it would look from anyone else's perspective. Dr. Phil explains it a lot better than me, but I had an aha moment when he said that.

I just want to take the opportunity to give NUA another shout out. I can’t imagine how hard the past few months, and this week, have been for her. I hope she knows that a lot of us are sending her hugs and recognizing what an outstanding friend she is.

 

[Colorfuel]

I'm thinking CW had a bit more rational plan than what had actually transpired (looks like a teenager plan). He is evil but an adult, not a 15 year old.

So maybe he didn't care at all what time Shanann came home that morning. Totally unimportant to him whether she arrived on time or even a day late. Because he wasn't planning to kill her or the children that morning. His only plan for Monday was to prepare the oil site for 3.5 bodies to come later that week? Pre-dig a grave or open up the bottom section of the tank so even Shanann's body would be able to fit in? Maybe his plan was to empty out the tank? Did it take a long time for LEs to empty the tank? I don't remember.

But he had to kill her that morning because Shanann was fiercely fighting back and taking actions to have her adulterous husband removed from her home. Maybe she even threw down the stairs some of his clothes which were found by the detective the same day. CW sure looked nervous when asked about it and lied that those were to be donated.

If he gets kicked out, he would have less chance to kill them and even if he did, suspicions would fall squarely on him. So he had to kill her even though he wasn't fully prepared to do so. He really was in a rage and a panic mode. Hmm, maybe not in a rage, but in absolute fear that he wouldn't be able to carry out his plan.

Not only he is evil, he is an unlucky man. He couldn't fully carry out his premeditated murder plan. This too, is Shanann's fault in his warped mind, no doubt.

Regarding his plans, such as they were, I think this quote in an article I linked to earlier is helpful:

"Offenders with psychopathy may only consider the possible positive consequences and fail to take account of the likely negative consequences," Hodgins said. "Consequently, their behavior often leads to punishment rather than reward as they had expected."

I had read this before, but it didn't stick in my mind too well. Having deficient brain circuitry for punishment would explain why he thought he could get away with it, and why things look premeditated but really sloppy and dumb. Might also explain why he didn't think he would get life in prison . . . for four murders.

 

[Iam Nana!]

I cannot get little Bella and CeCe out of my mind. I can’t imagine the fear they experienced. I have always wondered how mean he was to them while SW was on that last trip. The trip to NC showed how much feeling he had lost for his little family. I also believe little Bella was not quiet as the monster smothered her little sister. No one not even a child could ignore the violence going on. Those babies those poor innocent babies what they went through makes me cry every time I think about them. We have so many little angels that we must never forget.

 

[mtnlites]

Yes. Photos would have been good IMO. Conversation about the Firemen who actually retrieved his little girls, and the effect that had on them would have been appropriate.

Since he is so concerned about his image and how others see him, the one time he showed some emotion in his interview was when he thought his co-workers might see him as a "bad guy", I think they should have interviewed all those folks who were part of the retrieval and then played those interviews for him. Repeatedly. Let him hear his co-workers, the firemen, etc. talking about how awful the retrievals were, about the shape of his daughter's bodies, etc. While I don't think describing their bodies would have affected CW at all, IMO he would have been affected by those people thinking badly of him.

 

[mtnlites]

I cannot get little Bella and CeCe out of my mind. I can’t imagine the fear they experienced. I have always wondered how mean he was to them while SW was on that last trip. The trip to NC showed how much feeling he had lost for his little family. I also believe little Bella was not quiet as the monster smothered her little sister. No one not even a child could ignore the violence going on. Those babies those poor innocent babies what they went through makes me cry every time I think about them. We have so many little angels that we must never forget.

I don't think he was "mean" to them, per se, I think he was probably just very cold. I think he may have gone through the actions of caring for them, but there were no emotions behind those actions. He was probably too concerned with NK. By the time he'd decided that he no longer needed or wanted his family, I think his emotions towards them were just gone. And I think the girls probably felt this.

 

[Pasasana]

It's hard to put together coherently, because that's not the way he speaks. But, the emphasis he put on....he should have gone to the game with his buddy, none of this would have happened..........told NK no that night, that all hell would not have broken lose. Broken lose on him of course as everything is passive for him, he doesn't cause anything. But the point I'm making is that he mentioned that several times, IIRC, which leads me to believe that something important happened that Saturday night aside from using the blue credit card which meant SW would see the charge. IE your suggestion of an ultimatum.

SW was home for a week or so, and that so far there was not a single move towards divorce that he could show her, well I believe she said something like:

Leave her or I'm out of here. And, if it weren't for her kids we could spend the night together, you didn't even tell me before that you had to be home at 10. Fix it, or we're history.

Plus he talked to her that Sunday night for nearly 2 hours, IIRC.

Situation reaching maximum drama by the time she walked through the door.

I know I've mentioned a version of this before, but I think Saturday was one of the times he "talked her off the ledge". They went to 2 different restaurants because she didn't like the menu or the seating arrangements...she was having a snit fit, clear to me.

Yes! You articulated what I've been thinking about.

 

[NuttMegg]

3:21 CW never did clear up whether or not it was a skunk. @Seattle1

Bella: Daddy it smells
Coder: So that goes back to maybe Shan'ann evacuating herself ?

CW: I don't know if it was that, you know that smells like a skunk maybe, sometimes? I got some kind of smell that way but I don't know what it was from.
Coder: Was it inside or outside ?
CW: I don't know.

 

[pinkie60]

I can't let go of the mistress being involved in some way with the murders. I also am will to risk my own life that CW premeditated the murders and NK knew about what he was planning on murdering his family. Why would NK have been googling Amber Frey's book deal information that Amber wrote after the Scott Peterson trial? NK knew darn good and well what CW was planning on doing. If she didn't then why google how much money Amber Frey made from her book deal? NK is not going to be able to lie her way out of those google searches and also scoping out wedding dresses online. Has she never heard of FORENSIC COMPUTER ANALYSIS???? I think NK is just as dumb as CW. NK also had to have known that CW would have been caught because that is the reason for the Amber Frey book deal searches on google.
In the Dr. Phil interview I'm pretty sure they all know that LE isn't done looking into what NK knows. I don't think we have heard that last of NK in the news. She will be back in the news and it won't be good for her.[/QUOTE/]
Makes a persons hinkey meter go up. I bet LE hinkey meters went up too but they couldn't find anything on her. She googled about amber frey after the murders. Makes it look like she was planning on cashing in on the situation
I'm not sure when she was looking at wedding dresses. In all honesty that could have been innocent. I think her best friend was getting married. Lots of people look at wedding dresses
What gets me is her deleted messages and ordering Chris to delete messages. what were they hiding?

 

[PommyMommy]

Personality disorders - Symptoms and causes Look here for the Personality Disorders

*Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.

What do we all expect CW to do stay in the corner day in and day out in tears shivering and cowering? Some of us would like to think that a person would do that however that is NOT how true life goes. His life is in JAIL. Unfortunately some of us would want him to suffer more.

HE has stated what he did, he did show remorse and HIGH GUILT. Think about it....a man in prison confesses to treating the children like this and then killing one in front of another who did fight back? Do you know what the other prisoner's are going to do to him? And yet he confesses it. Point blank.

NOTHING this man does is going to be good enough for you all unless he hangs himself (which I do not advocate).

These personality disorders often overlap in their symptoms as well.

BPD- Borderline Personality Disorder is falling into the categories these two professionals have stated.
In my opinion only, an expert cannot base their opinion on one video of an interview of CW. So I'm not even going to take that video into consideration.

What do these people who are telling the general public this have to gain? Notoriety. Maybe money for their expert opinion. Have any of these "experts" sat down with CW for sessions for a few months to a year on end to determine that their diagnosis is indeed the correct diagnosis? I would be willing to bet the answer is, "NO".

Asburgers and Autism is a different story as they have no interrelated pattern of connecting behaviors or symptoms that largely mimic personalities' that can be hard to weed through to get to the correct diangosis.

BPD is a very real scenario here.

By BPD, I meant Bipolar Disorder as I thought someone had mentioned. Sorry I was not clear. CW and others have been armchair diagnosed here with so many conditions, it's hard to keep track.

In regard to the BBM, let me be crystal clear; I have NEVER wished anyone would commit suicide. You could not be more wrong.

MOO

 

[mtnlites]

I just want to take the opportunity to give NUA another shout out. I can’t imagine how hard the past few months, and this week, have been for her. I hope she knows that a lot of us are sending her hugs and recognizing what an outstanding friend she is.

NUA and the local law enforcement. At the time NUA called them, SW had only missed an appointment. NUA had just seen her a few hours earlier. LE did not have to respond to her concern as quickly as they did. The fact that they jumped onto the story and reacted so quickly is a testament to them and to NUA who knew what to say to get them concerned and didn't back down when CW tried to get her to. When my 8-month pregnant diabetic sister disappeared with my toddler nephew, they made us wait 24 hours before they'd let us file a report-and this was even WITH my sister having an active restraining order on her husband. LE in SW's situation reacted in a way that isn't always common and, because of this, everything moved very quickly. Good for them.

 

[Deleted member 239597]

He was probably too concerned with NK. By the time he'd decided that he no longer needed or wanted his family, I think his emotions towards them were just gone. And I think the girls probably felt this.

My opinion: NK wasn't even a lingering thought at this point. What did he just do? How am I going to deal with all this? Panicking … is where I believe his mind was at. Also, disassociation that any of it was real. NK....not at all.

 

[mtnlites]

My opinion: NK wasn't even a lingering thought at this point. What did he just do? How am I going to deal with all this? Panicking … is where I believe his mind was at. Also, disassociation that any of it was real. NK....not at all.

I disagree. I think she was always on his mind. After he buried his pregnant wife and dumped his children in an oil tank, he paused to take pictures of wildflowers for NK and to Google the song lyrics of a song she wanted. He also continued to text her and speak to her while there was supposedly a search going on for his "missing" family. I think he was obsessed with NK and she was always there at the edge of his mind.