CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[ilovechili]

I think it was her excuse and justification for her involvement. She had no other reason that would make her look humane in the eyes of a jury of her peers to cover up a murder of an innocent woman. It didn’t work she looks like an evil monster.

I would agree. She had to say things like she was scared of him, she believed KB was awful and abusive, she TRIED to leave a trail for police, etc. to justify her sick and twisted actions. She knows how evil she looks otherwise. To me she still looks that evil, doesn't fool me one bit. jmo.

 

[Trudie]

I would agree. She had to say things like she was scared of him, she believed KB was awful and abusive, she TRIED to leave a trail for police, etc. to justify her sick and twisted actions. She knows how evil she looks otherwise. To me she still looks that evil, doesn't fool me one bit. jmo.

I so agree. After lying to LE the first time, she had a chance to work on a story, maybe her bff helped her.
I am stunned anyone believes a word she says. Jmo

 

[ilovechili]

The credibility of a witness is a matter of opinion. You posted: If CB is saying it, I absolutely believe it .

Quoting the Amended Complaint of Wrongful Death dated Feb 15, 2019, Plaintiffs DB and CB:

"...
32. Plaintiffs have suffered and continue to suffer severe emotional distress caused by Frazee's extreme and outrageous conduct to include, but not limited to:
a. Insomnia, b. Stress, c. Muscle and back pain, d. Headaches, e. Gastrointestinal problems, f. Weight loss, g. Loss of appetite, h. Anxiety, i. Depression

33. The above manifestations of severe emotional distress commenced following Frazee's extreme and outrageous conduct set forth in paragraphs 10-19 above. [paragraph 10 states November 22, 2018]

35. As a result of the actions of Frazee, the Plaintiffs have sustained past and future injuries, damages, and losses.
..."

The Amended Complaint goes on to request $75,000 plus costs.

*
On Dec 21, 2018, the Custody Court granted a Temporary Emergency Custody Order giving physical custody of baby K to DB and CB. Additional hearings in this matter occurred on Dec 27, Jan 3, and Feb 7, continuing the physical custody of baby K with DB and CB. Baby K is a citizen of Colorado, yet has been physically removed to Idaho.

Although custody hearings are closed to the public, there is some obvious paperwork and testimony. CB and DB would have had to file documents about their ability to care for the child. Additionally, every custody Court (Judge) will orally inquire and receive answers regarding the basic information: Do you have an adequate permanent residence? Do you have sufficient financial resources? Do you have any health problems, physical or mental impairments? The Court would be completely remiss if these issues were not specifically addressed before handing off a baby to anyone.

As I bolded above, the text of the Amended Complaint filed Feb 15, 2019 covers all time periods since Nov 22, 2018 into the indefinite future, and that includes all of the custody hearings to date.

Attestations to courts are not mere chit-chat or TV interviews. So which is it? Is CB healthy and mentally fit to care for the baby as she told the custody Court before or on Feb 7, 2019? Or is CB suffering from severe emotional distress, anxiety and depression, so bad that there are multiple physical manifestations, and she needs $75,000 in damages? If CB is so sick and mentally ill, should she be caring for the baby? Or is CB not really all that sick and mentally ill, so it's okay for her to care for the baby, but then why make these claims in a federal lawsuit if it's not a big deal?

As a witness in a criminal trial where credibility is an issue regarding all testimony about spoken statements, which is it? Is it what CB told the custody Court, or is it what she told the federal Court?

I'm certain I will be reported for victim-bashing, but these are simply facts. I am not even offering an opinion on CB's credibility, but I do see where a Defense attorney will go here.

And if I were the Frazee custody attorney, I would have copied that Amended Complaint and filed an emergency motion to the custody Court, for the sake of the child in the physical custody of someone who one week after the last custody hearing claimed to the federal Court to have so many severe health and emotional issues. Does the custody Court know about this?

You actually do have a point and a good one. I think CB will be pretty believable and be able to explain this in both cases though.

Yet I agree that a defense may use that and more. To me, anyone who thinks a defense will not mount a helluva case or has automatically assumed what the jury will do or who will be on it and what the prosecution has or the defense may have has tunnel vision or is naive imo. I agree with you on that. LE and other attorneys say the same. Only an insider could know what they have.

And saying so is not a knock on LE or the prosecution. Cases vary. Jurors vary.

jmo.

 

[Plo_Koon]

I guessed you thought that and I should go back and clarify that post because in no way did I mean that. I just do not see that either of these two brainwashed the other. I agree with much in your post and have some other opinions on other things. However, I have respect for all opinions, we each have our own. And I believe all of our opinions are nothing but guesswork and logic based on the little we know of these two. So they will differ.

I tend to disagree I guess with his being her "first love" having any control over someone to do as she did. I believe both are very manipulative people, not that he manipulated her. No one had her at gunpoint on the Idaho end to come to Colorado to do the bidding of a man she was scared of, her own remarks. He is her first love or true love on one hand but she is scared of him on the other hand.

Otherwise, I mostly agree. And I appreciate that you did not jump to the conclusion of how you took my post because I did not mean she was worse. In fact, I basically was saying she was a bit smarter than he.

I just was curious I guess with the context. You're clarification is much appreciated. I 100% agree with you, and I also feel like that kind of wraps into my thoughts of PF potentially looking to blame the entire thing on KK as the jealous other woman commiting murder while trying to completely absolve himself. I'm kind of torn because I don't know if he is smart enough to pull that off (he's not as he was riding around with his and KB's phone). But if he was truly verbally and physically abusive, then I think he may know a thing or two about manipulation of young females.

I guess it's the fact that I'm not a narcissistic maniac, but I can NEVER understand in these cases how it's not a simpler solution to get a divorce and split custody no matter in what manner than it is to commit a murder that's going to clearly ensure you get NO CUSTODY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE

 

[ilovechili]

I so agree. After lying to LE the first time, she had a chance to work on a story, maybe her bff helped her.
I am stunned anyone believes a word she says. Jmo

Yep, pretty hard to believe her. I quite frankly do not, with regard to much. However, I doubt the LE believes it all either but they have to work with what they have. She is not ideal, that is for darned sure.

 

[Reachingfornettles]

IMO KK definetly wanted KB dead, especially if she was going to be in Pfs life because now KB is going to know who KK is and say she is psycho because she came to her house and gave her a coffee. How could she ever explain that. So I feel as though she definitely wanted her dead. To cover her own devious ways from being discovered. Had nothing to do with that baby being abused or threats on her babies... pure evil jealousy.

 

[ab01]

Yep, pretty hard to believe her. I quite frankly do not, with regard to much. However, I doubt the LE believes it all either but they have to work with what they have. She is not ideal, that is for darned sure.

I”m not sure there is such a thing as an ideal plea deal witness.

Hence the plea deal in the first place.

One things for sure, with all the time between now and trial she will be prepped extensively

 

[PommyMommy]

HLN on Twitter
Tomorrow at Noon ET watch the #HLN Investigation "Vanished: Kelsey Berreth's Nightmare." Colorado mom #KelseyBerreth vanished on Thanksgiving Day. Nearly 4-months later, her body has yet to be found... but cops believe her fiancé may know more than he's letting on.

 

[ilovechili]

I just was curious I guess with the context. You're clarification is much appreciated. I 100% agree with you, and I also feel like that kind of wraps into my thoughts of PF potentially looking to blame the entire thing on KK as the jealous other woman commiting murder while trying to completely absolve himself. I'm kind of torn because I don't know if he is smart enough to pull that off (he's not as he was riding around with his and KB's phone). But if he was truly verbally and physically abusive, then I think he may know a thing or two about manipulation of young females.

I guess it's the fact that I'm not a narcissistic maniac, but I can NEVER understand in these cases how it's not a simpler solution to get a divorce and split custody no matter in what manner than it is to commit a murder that's going to clearly ensure you get NO CUSTODY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE

I could not agree more with everything you said here. We can't think like they do and if we could well then that would be a reason to worry too right

I think he may well have been setting her up to a point. I doubt either fully trusted the other. Yet I know what you mean was he smart enough to truly set her up? Seems like a contradiction. One has to take it with a grain of salt probably, but the ex gf in Dateline said he was very smart. So he is hard to figure out because actions are contradictory (smart enough to set her up but too dumb to figure out some other big blunders??) and he has said nothing. I have learned in life that some can be smart in one area but totally dumb in another, I don't know that that explains it but I guess it is what I come down to. Or he had tunnel vision, was focused on setting up KK and getting rid of KB but fell down with other parts? No idea. I truly wonder if something failed the night before... So the plan had to change some...

I think they both had their individual reasons to want her dead. There may well have been a bit of manipulation both ways. But it is only speculation of course. I do think however that they each made their choices. Yes, things can contribute, being battered, abused, a bad childhood, a belief of a story one is told, etc. but they know right from wrong and they both made their own choices. As you said, get a divorce, fight for custody, leave her, etc. And with KK, refuse, run for help and protection if truly afraid of him. Neither did those things.

All just my opinion and I so agree with your post here.

 

[Trocroc9]

Ugh Sorry about quoting your post twice I was trying to get a piece of it to quote but couldn’t figure out how to do it.
You said “PF tried to farm this out because he wasn't even man enough to do it himself, and then he bashed a promising young girl and mother's skull with a baseball bat”.
ITA with this but what finally brings him to do it himself after months of trying to get others to do it?

 

[Trocroc9]

DBM

 

[MassGuy]

I”m not sure there is such a thing as an ideal plea deal witness.

Hence the plea deal in the first place.

One things for sure, with all the time between now and trial she will be prepped extensively

Yeah, there never is.

Hitmen testify against solicitors.

Murderers testify against other murderers.

People who act as accessories to grotesque crimes, testify against those who are more culpable.

Sammy the Bull, a murderer of atleast 19 people, testified against John Gotti, helping to put him away for life.

The jury doesn’t have to like them, nor do they have to believe everything they have to say, but generally, they help immensely.

KK will be huge.

 

[MassGuy]

Ugh Sorry about quoting your post twice I was trying to get a piece of it to quote but couldn’t figure out how to do it.
You said “PF tried to farm this out because he wasn't even man enough to do it himself, and then he bashed a promising young girl and mother's skull with a baseball bat”.
ITA with this but what finally brings him to do it himself after months of trying to get others to do it?

Because he wanted it done, and didn’t want to wait any longer.

He was ultimately willing to take on the risk, and get his hands dirty.

This type of thing happens quite often. It’s not easy to find a real hitman.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Just to clarify, as I don't want to be misconstrued as a supporter of either of these two. B

I could not agree more with everything you said here. We can't think like they do and if we could well then that would be a reason to worry too right

I think he may well have been setting her up to a point. I doubt either fully trusted the other. Yet I know what you mean was he smart enough to truly set her up? Seems like a contradiction. One has to take it with a grain of salt probably, but the ex gf in Dateline said he was very smart. So he is hard to figure out because actions are contradictory (smart enough to set her up but too dumb to figure out some other big blunders??) and he has said nothing. I have learned in life that some can be smart in one area but totally dumb in another, I don't know that that explains it but I guess it is what I come down to. Or he had tunnel vision, was focused on setting up KK and getting rid of KB but fell down with other parts? No idea. I truly wonder if something failed the night before... So the plan had to change some...

I think they both had their individual reasons to want her dead. There may well have been a bit of manipulation both ways. But it is only speculation of course. I do think however that they each made their choices. Yes, things can contribute, being battered, abused, a bad childhood, a belief of a story one is told, etc. but they know right from wrong and they both made their own choices. As you said, get a divorce, fight for custody, leave her, etc. And with KK, refuse, run for help and protection if truly afraid of him. Neither did those things.

All just my opinion and I so agree with your post here.

Also, chili, sometimes I think his original insistence that KK be the one to drive the body with her back to ID, and also having her be the one with the cell phones MAY have been further attempts to pin it on her, with hopes she would be pulled over with the body. A good part of me thinks that a man who is carrying on a relationship with the mother of his child while also carrying one on with another girl states away is certainly not above his own personal ideals that he would be able to use that to manipulate the situation to his advantage. Even if that was the case, though, it's still nowhere near enough information to change my opinion of KK as a heartless idiot.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Because he wanted it done, and didn’t want to wait any longer.

He was ultimately willing to take on the risk, and get his hands dirty.

This type of thing happens quite often. It’s not easy to find a real hitman.

This was 100% going to be my response. Thank you, MassGuy.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Ugh Sorry about quoting your post twice I was trying to get a piece of it to quote but couldn’t figure out how to do it.
You said “PF tried to farm this out because he wasn't even man enough to do it himself, and then he bashed a promising young girl and mother's skull with a baseball bat”.
ITA with this but what finally brings him to do it himself after months of trying to get others to do it?

MOO, he is a narcissistic moron who thought he was smarter than all parties involved. He ultimately wanted KB dead, and IMO, he realized KK may not report his soliciations to LE but she also may just not have it in her to go through with the actual physical murder.
He thought he was smart enough to see that with the Thanksgiving holiday coming, he could take care of this himself and then has the holiday to use to support his stupid little "OH YEAH WE BROKE UP! SHE SAID SHE WAS GOING TO VISIT FAMILY" fable.

 

[MassGuy]

Also, chili, sometimes I think his original insistence that KK be the one to drive the body with her back to ID, and also having her be the one with the cell phones MAY have been further attempts to pin it on her, with hopes she would be pulled over with the body. A good part of me thinks that a man who is carring on a relationship with the mother of his child while also carrying one on with another girl states away is certainly not above his own personal ideals that he would be able to use that to manipulate the situation to his advantage. Even if that was the case, though, it's still nowhere near enough information to change my opinion of KK as a heartless idiot.

I think you could make an argument that he planned to pin the solicitation murder attempts on KK, but I don’t think he planned to implicate her, after he took it upon himself to murder KB.

He is so connected to this plot (phone records, lies, video evidence), that for KK to get caught with KB’s body, would be the equivalent of him getting caught as well.

Everything he did, seems to indicate that he wanted this not to look like a crime at all.

She just left on her own.

 

[Plo_Koon]

She just left on her own.

Without her car. No wonder everyone realizes he is a dolt.

MassGuy, do you think PF sought out or was given any information by his LE family members?

 

[MassGuy]

Without her car. No wonder everyone realizes he is a dolt.

MassGuy, do you think PF sought out or was given any information by his LE family members?

It all depends on their relationship, and if he was forthcoming with them in the first place.

It does appear that his brother offered him advice, as shortly after they met with investigators, PF lawyered up.

There’s no way of knowing if it went further than that, or what his family knew.

 

[ilovechili]

Also, chili, sometimes I think his original insistence that KK be the one to drive the body with her back to ID, and also having her be the one with the cell phones MAY have been further attempts to pin it on her, with hopes she would be pulled over with the body. A good part of me thinks that a man who is carrying on a relationship with the mother of his child while also carrying one on with another girl states away is certainly not above his own personal ideals that he would be able to use that to manipulate the situation to his advantage. Even if that was the case, though, it's still nowhere near enough information to change my opinion of KK as a heartless idiot.

I can't disagree, all possible. I can even picture him calling her in himself anonymously after she left with the body lol--speculation only but who knows... This case is pretty twisted as are the characters.

Yes I agree--someone that cheats is generally telling the gf he hates his wife, she is a terrible mother, bad wife, he is with her only for the children, there is no sex, he will leave her one day for the gf (or in this case, not wife but significant other/mother of his child); pretty similar to what he was saying to select neighbors, etc. Then he is telling the wife/SO just the opposite... I think he could use that to manipulate the situation as you said and I also can believe his lies to each were starting to unravel, with one or the other or both and about to collide.

I wonder if we will every truly know everything.