GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[MassGuy]

I've only just started to learn about this whole case a couple of days ago. At the time, I was too engrossed in the Mollie Tibbetts disappearance to focus on this case. Poor Bella, she watched her dad strangle her mother and drag her body down the stairs, and also watched her sister being smothered. She must have been terrified beyond belief. My heart is broken.

Yup. It was one of those cases that started off terrible, and somehow found a way to get worse and worse.

The latest, and hopefully last shoe to drop, was his revelation that the girls were alive at the oil site.

And most disturbingly, what Bella went through.

 

[NanZDrew]

I think that, sadly, had CW cheated a lot before NK, he would merely continue cheating.

It seems to me than only a man with little sexual experience would consider "the other" woman his Ultima Thule, the end of the universe.

Had he cheated before, he'd know that there always could be a newer partner, view the whole affair like "a fling", not like "love", and know that NK was not the one to die for.

But narcs idealize their new love. They always are looking for a perfect love which does not exist. I do not think he was very sexually experienced, however, because he was too dorky before. I think it was only after he got the buff body that people noticed him. I think that attention fueled something in him. Hey, after a couple of months in prison, he doesn't look so firm anymore. He is rapidly becoming dorky looking again.

 

[NanZDrew]

That's true. And his rage could have just silently built. It didn't have to be based on anything real or specific. If he'd decided that SW was the one standing in the way of his great, edge-standing mistress then he could've let so much hate build up in him that any little reminder just made it worse.

I'm still undecided on whether he actually felt enraged or not. I do think the crime was premeditated in that I don't think he suddenly saw red and began strangling her, but I think rage and premeditation don't have to be mutually exclusive in this case.

Possibly he lived in a constant state of rage that continued to simmer beneath the surface and that existed long before he met SW. She and the babies were just the sad, unfortunate victims that he took it all out on.

 

[mtnlites]

But narcs idealize their new love. They always are looking for a perfect love which does not exist. I do not think he was very sexually experienced, however, because he was too dorky before. I think it was only after he got the buff body that people noticed him. I think that attention fueled something in him. Hey, after a couple of months in prison, he doesn't look so firm anymore. He is rapidly becoming dorky looking again.

In my support group we often call that "the perfect stranger" syndrome for narcs. When they get obsessed with someone, everything about them is perfect. They put that person so high up on a pedestal that it's almost inhuman. They're mesmerized by everything that person does and, during that time, NOBODY else can live up to that person. And because they're so idealized, it never lasts.

 

[k-mac]

Ha ha, I actually know people who will do this. Or who have done it. Personally, I don't get it. If I want out then I am OUT. However, I can believe that it happened here because A) SW was really hellbent on saving her marriage; it makes me sad to think that the proposition of intercourse may have given her a false sense of hope and B) CW seems to lack empathy and be all about himself; I could see him thinking that he was being altruistic by doing it one last time.

I honestly don't have a feel on it one way or the other. I can see it happening and I can also see him lying about it and said it did. We'll probably never know.

Ugh. I feel dirty and embarrassed for SW for even picturing it.

it makes me very sad thinking about this possibility.

SW was desperate for some physical attention from him according to her messages but she was absolutely knackered from her trip.
so I sit on the fence about sex that night from her vantage point.

him ..however....
if they had sex it confirms to me that he didn't kill her because of her.
he liked her enough to have a roll in the hay with her.
he killed her because of how he felt about someone else.

and for NKs benefit I hope they did. and I hope she thinks about it all the time.

moo

 

[k-mac]

Yep and he talked about her being bipolar (not sure if he was using the term colloquially or if she was actually diagnosed) and getting pissed at him for going home to his family or when she overheard his daughters in the background. Oh and saying all her online dates kept standing her up! He also essentially said he wouldn't have killed his family if he didn't get involved with her. Either he came up with the idea to paint her in a bad light on his own or whoever he talks to on the phone is giving him ideas. Or both. A far cry from his initial interview when he tried to protect her because she had been through enough.

is the tide turning?
the glean has certainly worn off!

 

[NuttMegg]

He said he woke up that morning knowing he was going to do it. Wouldn't that have been Sunday morning?

I am convinced he meant Sunday morning.

 

[molly1255]

But narcs idealize their new love. They always are looking for a perfect love which does not exist. I do not think he was very sexually experienced, however, because he was too dorky before. I think it was only after he got the buff body that people noticed him. I think that attention fueled something in him. Hey, after a couple of months in prison, he doesn't look so firm anymore. He is rapidly becoming dorky looking again.

Agree that narcs idealize their new love. He completely shut it off with Shanann when she went to NC. Shanann's phone calls to him when she was in NC were aggravating and distracting, JMO.

His physical transformation began, I believe, in the early fall of 2017, and it was dramatic. He didn't even look like the same guy. Shanann didn't think he had game, but he most definitely had game.

His game can be seen in the email exchange between CW and NK that occurred in early June, before the San Diego trip. NK sent him an email back, and said she wanted to keep their friendship at work and that she was looking to build a beautiful life with someone, such as what he had built . That didn't stop CW. Whatever he told her after that convinced NK to jump in, even though she knew he was married and had small children. A psychopath takes in personal information their targets unwittingly provide and the psychopath becomes exactly what their target has stated they want.

I listened to NK's FBI interview again yesterday. She said that after seeing the picture of Shanann and the kids at CW's house, she asked him if he was sure that he didn't want to work on his marriage and give Shanann the benefit of the doubt.

The benefit of the doubt? Lots of possibilities here, IMO. Nico? That Shanann was cheating? That kind of thing would make CW look like he was a good guy and a victim and give NK a reason he was getting out of his marriage. JMO.

Agree, he is on his way back to looking like a dork, but he looked like a dork when he pursued Shanann, and she took the bait and fell in love with him, or rather, fell in love with who he pretended to be.

All JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Agree that narcs idealize their new love. He completely shut it off with Shanann when she went to NC. Shanann's phone calls to him when she was in NC were aggravating and distracting, JMO.

His physical transformation began, I believe, in the early fall of 2017, and it was dramatic. He didn't even look like the same guy. Shanann didn't think he had game, but he most definitely had game.

His game can be seen in the email exchange between CW and NK that occurred in early June, before the San Diego trip. NK sent him an email back, and said she wanted to keep their friendship at work and that she was looking to build a beautiful life with someone, such as what he had built . That didn't stop CW. Whatever he told her after that convinced NK to jump in, even though she knew he was married and had small children. A psychopath takes in personal information their targets unwittingly provide and the psychopath becomes exactly what their target has stated they want.

I listened to NK's FBI interview again yesterday. She said that after seeing the picture of Shanann and the kids at CW's house, she asked him if he was sure that he didn't want to work on his marriage and give Shanann the benefit of the doubt.

The benefit of the doubt? Lots of possibilities here, IMO. Nico? That Shanann was cheating? That kind of thing would make CW look like he was a good guy and a victim and give NK a reason he was getting out of his marriage. JMO.

Agree, he is on his way back to looking like a dork, but he looked like a dork when he pursued Shanann, and she took the bait and fell in love with him, or rather, fell in love with who he pretended to be.

All JMO

I see interviewing CW like going up to a huge pinball game. You pull the lever and the ball bounces around differently each time. Now that everyone knows he simply lies all the time, I see the massive problems in trying to find out what really happened, ie for the interrogators. Too bad they can't hook him up to a lie detector every time they speak with him.
I think it's hard to fake the way his voice cracks when he discusses the horrible parts of his story. But, even though his voice is cracking, he may actually be telling another lie under that stress.

ETA: Because of his major inconsistencies and those of his lover, conspiracy theories will continue on. That's what happened with Natalee Holloway, online chat boards were there for years discussing bizarro theories, meanwhile Aruba businesses offered Holloway tours and so forth.
But we have enough, imo, to know he murdered them all in cold blood. Just that he will never ever own up to exactly how he did it, what he was thinking, etc. He was THERE, but his roadmap is to claim someone else was in his body doing it, controlling everything. That leaves him off the hook (in his own mind, and that of his family, and on the k-type apologist sites). He will remain an enigma to those of us who pay attention, but a stone cold murderer to the rest of the globe.

 

[molly1255]

I see interviewing CW like going up to a huge pinball game. You pull the lever and the ball bounces around differently each time. Now that everyone knows he simply lies all the time, I see the massive problems in trying to find out what really happened, ie for the interrogators. Too bad they can't hook him up to a lie detector every time they speak with him.
I think it's hard to fake the way his voice cracks when he discusses the horrible parts of his story. But, even though his voice is cracking, he may actually be telling another lie under that stress.

Great analogy with the pinball machine and CW! The interrogators definitely had their work cut out with this guy. One thing I believe we can be sure of and that is that CW is still lying. About what? Who knows?

 

[NuttMegg]

Great analogy with the pinball machine and CW! The interrogators definitely had their work cut out with this guy. One thing I believe we can be sure of and that is that CW is still lying. About what? Who knows?

Well as dozens have pointed out he is lying about how he murdered SW and her reaction while he did it.
Hanging over it all is what the mistress laid on him Saturday night aside from her body. Enough that he said he knew when he woke up that day he would kill. Then the added 111 minutes of communications right before the murders. We'll never know, but IMO that's when it all came together. And, which is why, IMO, he put so much emphasis on how the course of history would have been altered if only he had gone to the game with his other friend. paraphrased.

 

[boomburger]

You can just tell agent Tammy Lee has a huge problem with Chris and his actions. As nice as she sounds, I reckon shes hoping she can get as much as she can from him before he gets shanked in prison.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

You can just tell agent Tammy Lee has a huge problem with Chris and his actions. As nice as she sounds, I reckon shes hoping she can get as much as she can from him before he gets shanked in prison.

She probably went home and just screamed...

 

[molly1255]

Well as dozens have pointed out he is lying about how he murdered SW and her reaction while he did it.
Hanging over it all is what the mistress laid on him Saturday night aside from her body. Enough that he said he knew when he woke up that day he would kill. Then the added 111 communications right before the murders. We'll never know, but IMO that's when it all came together. And, which is why, IMO, he put so much emphasis on how the course of history would have been altered if only he had gone to the game with his other friend. paraphrased.

I think you are right. I'm pretty sure that NK was loaded for bear Saturday night. She wasn't going to play second fiddle and Shanann and the girls were back and there was no movement on the separation front. To top it off, CW didn't want to discuss the apartment search with NK Saturday night.

OW's who are in this position tend to give strong ultimatums with tight deadlines. CW knew he was way behind the 8 ball in terms of getting a separation. The only thing he'd done to date was be very cold to Shanann, and Shanann was not giving up.

JMO, I imagine when he woke up Sunday morning, he was thinking about everything he needed to do. We know that Sunday afternoon, he texted his co-worker to make sure he would be alone at Cervi 319 Monday morning.

All JMO

 

[Traymar]

Two things have occurred to me:

1. CW saying that NK was the first person he could be himself around. I think this might be true. Around SW he had to wear his mask, because she was truly and innately a good and honest person with a fully functional moral compass. If he were to have revealed his abject emptiness (i.e., his sociopathy) to her, she would have rejected him.

CW required, as a nearly literal matter of life and death, the approval of others, so he learned to wear his mask religiously, as it were, when in the company of good and decent people. His family of origin is excepted from this equation because he needs their approval despite their lacking in the decency department - so he wears his mask, to one degree or another, with everyone.

Except NK. Because she was like him. They wondered if they were "bad people." IMO, this was an honest question on both their parts, because they have no concept of what being a good person is beyond the outward clues they've gleaned from their observation of others.

2. CW wanting to be a mentor and/or his feeling that he has a purpose or whatever nonsense he said. I do not think that this is something he truly feels. Has he ever had an authentic and genuine feeling in his life?

More likely, IMO, this is more evidence of his compulsion to appear "good" in the eyes of others. Somewhere along the line he has absorbed the notion that people think well of those people who desire to help others regardless of their own station in life, and/or people who make something good happen after, or out of, terrible times.

He no doubt heard, at some point in his life, someone else expressing such a sentiment, and then heard as well the attendant approval-sounds and murmurings. As he dearly desires such affirmations for himself, he likely pulled this out of his memory banks (where it was doubtless filed under "save this info - may need one day") after spending 23 hours alone in his cell every day trying to figure out if he is "bad," if "everyone" hates him now, and if so, how he can change everyone's mind the way he's seemingly been able to do every other time the mask has slipped before.

CW is just polishing his battered mask with whatever he can find lying around his "how to act like a human being" memory files.

All MOO.

 

[MsBetsy]

She probably went home and just screamed...

She probably gave her kids a big hug, too. It's horrible to hear him speak so casually about what he did when you have young kids yourself. Imo

 

[mtnlites]

She probably gave her kids a big hug, too. It's horrible to hear him speak so casually about what he did when you have young kids yourself. Imo

That's one of the reasons I give her, in particular, mad props for that interview. To him she may have sounded friendly, even sympathetic at times. To me she had that tone of someone from the south who says "bless your heart" but the other person doesn't realize that it's code for "you're dumber than a box of bricks and I wouldn't waste good saliva on you in a fire." She knew how to get him to talk, but every once in a while something would slip through in her tone (like when he said people wrote him for spiritual advice) that belayed her composure.

 

[Doghairrules]

I don't think there was any forensic evidence that CW deposited semen in SW before he murdered her. I'm sure forensics would have tested for that and it was not included in anything from LE.

I think he lied. There would be no reason for him to use a condom as SW was already pregnant so evidence of intercourse/sexual assault would have been included in the autopsy report.

He is a liar who occasionally sprinkles a dot of truth in between his own foolish, unbelievable fantasies.

moo

Oh I agree. Total lie.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IIRC he told LE that he always used condoms because SW didn't like to get "messy". He had a big supply of them in the house.

I have never heard such a thing, where did you hear that? Link?

ETA, That perhaps is from social media?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I've only just started to learn about this whole case a couple of days ago. At the time, I was too engrossed in the Mollie Tibbetts disappearance to focus on this case. Poor Bella, she watched her dad strangle her mother and drag her body down the stairs, and also watched her sister being smothered. She must have been terrified beyond belief. My heart is broken.

And what does not sync with me, is that supposedly was the daughter that he said was most liked him self. That he identified with that daughter the most. And then he made her suffer the most.