GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[MsBetsy]

I have never heard such a thing, where did you hear that? Link?

ETA, That perhaps is from social media?

I think it might have been mentioned by NK in one of her interviews, too. She mentioned something about the ones he had being past the expiration date, but I don't remember the context of the conversation. I think she said that she always carried them around or she was surprised he didn't have any. Not sure exactly but it was in the affidavit somewhere. Imo

 

[Noreen McGurl]

I just had a thought that falls into the theory of a little bit of Truth in the lies, remember when, I'm not sure but will tesearch, Chris was being interrogated and had mentioned he didn't want the girls to talk to Shanann when she was away on business because it would just be a cry fest because they would want her to be there and miss her and love her and go to her I can't even imagine what happened when she was laying lifeless in the truck or being taken to the truck in the sheet they must have been screaming and crying for their mommy and that may be why he said that, so sad....

 

[wilsodh]

Well as dozens have pointed out he is lying about how he murdered SW and her reaction while he did it.
Hanging over it all is what the mistress laid on him Saturday night aside from her body. Enough that he said he knew when he woke up that day he would kill. Then the added 111 minutes of communications right before the murders. We'll never know, but IMO that's when it all came together. And, which is why, IMO, he put so much emphasis on how the course of history would have been altered if only he had gone to the game with his other friend. paraphrased.

Agree. Sifting through CW's confession, one way to possibly discern truth from the lies is looking for what appears to not in any way be self-enhancing or rationalizing to minimize the monstrousness of his actions. For example, coldly killing his babies at the oil site is unfathomable and monstrous, and it therefore seems unlikely he is making this up. Having sex with his wife, discussing his feelings about staying married, harboring some inner rage, and her not fighting him while he strangles her, all sounds to me like a collection of lies. A more cowardly scenario is he rendered her unconscious from an easily defensible position (behind?) while an exhausted SW lay sleeping (as a pregnant woman, she would have been sleeping on her side).

I also agree that 111 minutes was probably crucial to CW's frame of mind to commit the murders. I could imagine a combination of pressure from NK, a surge of hormones from their intimacy, not having a viable path to support his lies about leaving SW, and fear of losing that intense connection, as a potent brew helping put CW in certain desperate frame of mind that fateful night.

If only we had a tape of that 111 minute conversation... it could be really enlightening!

 

[NuttMegg]

I also agree that 111 minutes was probably crucial to CW's frame of mind to commit the murders. I could imagine a combination of pressure from NK, a surge of hormones from their intimacy, not having a viable path to support his lies about leaving SW, and fear of losing that intense connection, as a potent brew helping put CW in certain desperate frame of mind that fateful night.

You are so concise!

What many have been calling the perfect storm. Of his own making though, instead of being produced by natural circumstances beyond one's control.

He must have been SO ANGRY, and yes, desperate, after that 111 minutes. Plus, SW was late, how dare she.

 

[opalonyx]

I get the feeling that the so-called trigger was definitely whatever he discussed with NK on the phone (that's not to say he isn't the monstrous murderer who took things too far). NK was willing to lie to investigators about the seriousness of their relationship and went to the length of trying to wipe her phone clean. I don't necessarily think she was aware of what CW was going to do. But I believe she knows she said some things to wind him up.

Notice NK's father got really defensive whenever investigators asked NK if she ever said anything negative about his wife and kids? Anything CW could have misconstrued? Her father quickly interjected before NK could answer and then she changed the subject from what I recall. She then lied about encouraging him to try to fix his marriage. Perhaps she used some kind of phrasing like "get rid of them soon or we're done" or "its them or me" etc.

 

[NuttMegg]

I get the feeling that the so-called trigger was definitely whatever he discussed with NK on the phone (that's not to say he isn't the monstrous murderer who took things too far). NK was willing to lie to investigators about the seriousness of their relationship and went to the length of trying to wipe her phone clean. I don't necessarily think she was aware of what CW was going to do. But I believe she knows she said some things to wind him up.

Notice NK's father got really defensive whenever investigators asked NK if she ever said anything negative about his wife and kids? Anything CW could have misconstrued? Her father quickly interjected before NK could answer and then she changed the subject from what I recall. She then lied about encouraging him to try to fix his marriage. Perhaps she used some kind of phrasing like "get rid of them soon or we're done" or "its them or me" etc.

And, she didn't know that he had never bothered to tell SW he wanted a separation, divorce, etc, completely contrary to what he had told NK. (Something I believe as much as anything in this s-hole situation can be believed.)
So I can mostly understand her urging him to get with it, it's them or me, as you suggest. And her dad, yeah I remember his threatening tone. That whole episode was lame, with her moaning, in that voice....they're so Leeeetle......and then bursting into tears, but only during the interrogation when Dad was there. The rest of the time she was somewhere around flirtatious in manner with the investigators.
She's a creep, too bad 2 creeps had to get it on at the expense of a lovely young woman and her beautiful kids and her entire extended family who have to live in grief.

 

[nanwv]

And the really strange part of this, if what has been reported is true, all this horror, for a two month ish lust affair.
Not even a relationship.
A very short affair.
Two Months.

 

[Colorfuel]

I see interviewing CW like going up to a huge pinball game. You pull the lever and the ball bounces around differently each time. Now that everyone knows he simply lies all the time, I see the massive problems in trying to find out what really happened, ie for the interrogators. Too bad they can't hook him up to a lie detector every time they speak with him.
I think it's hard to fake the way his voice cracks when he discusses the horrible parts of his story. But, even though his voice is cracking, he may actually be telling another lie under that stress.

ETA: Because of his major inconsistencies and those of his lover, conspiracy theories will continue on. That's what happened with Natalee Holloway, online chat boards were there for years discussing bizarro theories, meanwhile Aruba businesses offered Holloway tours and so forth.
But we have enough, imo, to know he murdered them all in cold blood. Just that he will never ever own up to exactly how he did it, what he was thinking, etc. He was THERE, but his roadmap is to claim someone else was in his body doing it, controlling everything. That leaves him off the hook (in his own mind, and that of his family, and on the k-type apologist sites). He will remain an enigma to those of us who pay attention, but a stone cold murderer to the rest of the globe.

Yeah, it's tough. I have listened to a bunch of lies from a personality-disordered person who made their voice crack like that, because voices are supposed to crack when they relate something terrible. Noticed Chris Watts's mother's voice in her interview entered and exited "emotionally broken up" and cracking modes very smoothly, without any tears, without her eyebrows changing, with no indications of real sadness, basically.

One of the ways I watch emotional upset in other people comes from something I learned in theater. When someone has a strong emotion, it's sort of unusual for them to give in totally to that emotion, particularly if they are continuing to speak at all rationally. So if you are trying to act sad, then acting sad should mean acting like you're trying to control your sadness and communicate despite it, rather than acting like you're just being sad in a one-dimensional manner. Hope that makes sense. Anyway, I've noticed that people with shallow and limited emotions usually don't get this right. Usually they're struggling to put across an emotion, it doesn't quite rise to the level of normal, so there's nothing to try to control; or it's way over the top in a very simplified, weird way.

Also, if it's a video interview, if I turn off the sound can I tell what emotion is being felt? And if I look and listen carefully, do I also start to feel what emotion they're portraying because of my own mirror neurons or whatever? If I feel nothing, there's possibly an issue.

 

[pocketaccent]

That's true. And his rage could have just silently built. It didn't have to be based on anything real or specific. If he'd decided that SW was the one standing in the way of his great, edge-standing mistress then he could've let so much hate build up in him that any little reminder just made it worse.

I'm still undecided on whether he actually felt enraged or not. I do think the crime was premeditated in that I don't think he suddenly saw red and began strangling her, but I think rage and premeditation don't have to be mutually exclusive in this case.

BBM
I agree. IMO rage and premeditation definitely are not mutually exclusive. Killer can premeditate and methodically kill without sudden rage or he can premeditate and kill in a rage.

What CW is claiming is that he did not premeditate but someone inside or behind him-as insinuated by CW- ended up killing Shanann because she made him insanely mad that morning.

I think the truth is that he premeditated AND he killed in a full rage.

Premeditation part:
IMO he solidified his plan to get rid of family on Thursday, August 9 when he-
-Sent SW the creepy doll photo
-Deleted his Facebook
-Contacted Troy McCoy for the fire stick 'sometime tomorrow' (I do think this had something to do with premeditation. eg, find out work schedule ahead of time)
-Searched Audi Q7
- All the while visiting the Secret calculator more than once that day.
-On Friday, he said to his dad regarding Facebook- "Yes sir, liberated myself"

Rage part:
I think he became enraged when he began to realize he may be kicked out of the house as soon as that day. The restaurant receipt precipitated the argument. He specifically mentions this fear in the prison interview.

 

[NuttMegg]

BBM
I agree. IMO rage and premeditation definitely are not mutually exclusive. Killer can premeditate and methodically kill without sudden rage or he can premeditate and kill in a rage.

What CW is claiming is that he did not premeditate but someone inside or behind him-as insinuated by CW- ended up killing Shanann because she made him insanely mad that morning.

I think the truth is that he premeditated AND he killed in a full rage.

Premeditation part:
IMO he solidified his plan to get rid of family on Thursday, August 9 when he-
-Sent SW the creepy doll photo
-Deleted his Facebook
-Contacted Troy McCoy for the fire stick 'sometime tomorrow' (I do think this had something to do with premeditation. eg, find out work schedule ahead of time)
-Searched Audi Q7
- All the while visiting the Secret calculator more than once that day.
-On Friday, he said to his dad regarding Facebook- "Yes sir, liberated myself"

Rage part:
I think he became enraged when he began to realize he may be kicked out of the house as soon as that day. The restaurant receipt precipitated the argument. He specifically mentions this fear in the prison interview.

Something bogus about his big deal over using the CC, NK specifically mentions that "sometimes I paid", in one of her interviews. The same one where she was describing the camping, teaching him how to make a campfire for the first time in his life
For some reason, (that is if we can believe her about chipping in $$ in the past), he wants everyone to think that he finally put his foot down and used a CC that night instead of asking NK to pay.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

it makes me very sad thinking about this possibility.

SW was desperate for some physical attention from him according to her messages but she was absolutely knackered from her trip.
so I sit on the fence about sex that night from her vantage point.

him ..however....
if they had sex it confirms to me that he didn't kill her because of her.
he liked her enough to have a roll in the hay with her.
he killed her because of how he felt about someone else.

and for NKs benefit I hope they did. and I hope she thinks about it all the time.

moo

I find it very very very strange, that at the end of their lives, they are telegraphing to their Paramore's that they were doing a very intimate loving expression to their "rival" prior to being killed.

Kelsey berreth and Shanann.

Is that to make them jealous? Do the Paramore's believe it? I just cannot understand it at all.

One said he covered the head as to a scenting of candles, how did that happen?

The other said he was sitting on top of her after he had sex.

What kind of message were they both sending to the other women? They were telling both women that the last things that were done were very intimate, and that both of the women we're still believing that they were loved in this wasn't intimate moment?

 

[pocketaccent]

I see interviewing CW like going up to a huge pinball game. You pull the lever and the ball bounces around differently each time. Now that everyone knows he simply lies all the time, I see the massive problems in trying to find out what really happened, ie for the interrogators. Too bad they can't hook him up to a lie detector every time they speak with him.
I think it's hard to fake the way his voice cracks when he discusses the horrible parts of his story. But, even though his voice is cracking, he may actually be telling another lie under that stress.

ETA: Because of his major inconsistencies and those of his lover, conspiracy theories will continue on. That's what happened with Natalee Holloway, online chat boards were there for years discussing bizarro theories, meanwhile Aruba businesses offered Holloway tours and so forth.
But we have enough, imo, to know he murdered them all in cold blood. Just that he will never ever own up to exactly how he did it, what he was thinking, etc. He was THERE, but his roadmap is to claim someone else was in his body doing it, controlling everything. That leaves him off the hook (in his own mind, and that of his family, and on the k-type apologist sites). He will remain an enigma to those of us who pay attention, but a stone cold murderer to the rest of the globe.

Awesome post!

 

[pocketaccent]

I think it might have been mentioned by NK in one of her interviews, too. She mentioned something about the ones he had being past the expiration date, but I don't remember the context of the conversation. I think she said that she always carried them around or she was surprised he didn't have any. Not sure exactly but it was in the affidavit somewhere. Imo

IIRC, per NK's interview, CW brought a partially used condom box to NK's house. She checked the expiration date because she knows condoms have certain lifespan, and was trying to correlate that info to Shanann's pregnancy. Or something like that. Maybe someone has better memory than mine.

 

[NuttMegg]

IIRC, per NK's interview, CW brought a partially used condom box to NK's house. She checked the expiration date because she knows condoms have certain lifespan, and was trying to correlate that info to Shanann's pregnancy. Or something like that. Maybe someone has better memory than mine.

I don't remember that, but I haven't re-listened to all of her interviews, for obvious reasons. I even remember her saying he couldn't get it up once, and darned if I can find that again. Maybe some of this was in texts, and not interviews?
Or maybe SW said that in a text?

 

[pocketaccent]

I don't remember that, but I haven't re-listened to all of her interviews, for obvious reasons. I even remember her saying he couldn't get it up once, and darned if I can find that again. Maybe some of this was in texts, and not interviews?

I do remember something like that also. That they usually do it 4 times a day but one day he couldn't. This was definitely in one of the interviews with LE.

 

[pocketaccent]

Agree. Sifting through CW's confession, one way to possibly discern truth from the lies is looking for what appears to not in any way be self-enhancing or rationalizing to minimize the monstrousness of his actions. For example, coldly killing his babies at the oil site is unfathomable and monstrous, and it therefore seems unlikely he is making this up. Having sex with his wife, discussing his feelings about staying married, harboring some inner rage, and her not fighting him while he strangles her, all sounds to me like a collection of lies. A more cowardly scenario is he rendered her unconscious from an easily defensible position (behind?) while an exhausted SW lay sleeping (as a pregnant woman, she would have been sleeping on her side).

I also agree that 111 minutes was probably crucial to CW's frame of mind to commit the murders. I could imagine a combination of pressure from NK, a surge of hormones from their intimacy, not having a viable path to support his lies about leaving SW, and fear of losing that intense connection, as a potent brew helping put CW in certain desperate frame of mind that fateful night.

If only we had a tape of that 111 minute conversation... it could be really enlightening!

BBM
I think by the time CW did the prison interview, he believed that LE had gained a clearer video of him loading up Shanann's body along with alive girls and possibly in possession of other evidences that the girls were alive at the oil site. I believe that's the reason he decided to tell the truth about the alive girls in the truck. He actually asks the interviewers if there is a video of it.

 

[Gardenista]

These are some notes I took from NK's interviews

CW brings condoms to my house. One box is full and unopened, the second are condoms from a partially used box.

I asked CW he has a box of partially used condoms CW informs me that the condoms he has are from back when he was still having sex with his wife. He told me they have been sitting in a closet collecting dust and that SW probably didn't even know they were still there asked him why SW used to use condoms CW informed me that SW didn't like to get messy I was curious so I looked up the expiration date on the condoms and noticed that the unopened set expired in late 2022 in the open set expired in early 2023 based on my research I assume these condoms were manufactured in late 2017 in early 2018

 

[pocketaccent]

These are some notes I took from NK's interviews

CW brings condoms to my house. One box is full and unopened, the second are condoms from a partially used box.

I asked CW he has a box of partially used condoms CW informs me that the condoms he has are from back when he was still having sex with his wife. He told me they have been sitting in a closet collecting dust and that SW probably didn't even know they were still there asked him why SW used to use condoms CW informed me that SW didn't like to get messy I was curious so I looked up the expiration date on the condoms and noticed that the unopened set expired in late 2022 in the open set expired in early 2023 based on my research I assume these condoms were manufactured in late 2017 in early 2018

Thank you for this.
Gee, who checks and researches the manufacture date of condoms...SMH

 

[NuttMegg]

Thank you for this.
Gee, who checks and researches the manufacture date of condoms...SMH

I liked the part where they are "collecting dust", like they don't come in nifty envelopes. Er, as far as I can remember....

 

[Gardenista]

Found these notes about his performance issues

We attempted to have sex four times that evening and he seems mentally interested but physically cannot perform. I asked them what the problem was several times and he kept telling me that nothing was wrong. I told him that he was quiet that day and it seem like he had something on his mind. I asked him what was bothering if what was bothering him had to do with the conversation that occurred the previous weekend. CW said yes, he told me that initially he was mad that I had been asked out on dates but then he felt that he couldn't be mad because that would make him hypocrite. What was really bothering him was that I kept asking him to try and fix things with SW. CW told me that he will attempt to fix things with her when he was in North Carolina and that he didn't want to talk about it anymore while he was home. The sex from then on for the rest of the relationship was greatly reduced from 3 to 4 times daily 21 to two maybe 2 times in was not as intimate when it occurred. Sex no longer happen every day we hung out, but it was still very frequent