Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #12 *ARREST*

[HopeForGoodNews]

That's the one I linked to earlier.

Sorry. Trying to quickly catch up after work.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

That garage totally escaped me for some reason.

Vermont - do you think its possible PR saw LS from the opposite side of Bev Rd?
I picture in my mind him spotting her when hes heading into Hull, then snaking round and back into Haworth st from Cott rd to make his grab.

I think he was possibly stopped at the traffic lights on the other side of the road - a perfect view of the damsel in distress and he may even have seen GreyBeard drive off. Quick right and right and round the bend of Haworth, and he's literally metres away from her.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Okay, but no mention of the PERSON, which is my point. In a legal sense the PERSON is your corporeal body. In that sense he has caused no (direct physical) harm. I'm not trying to claim these are 'victimless' crimes, or that they do not cause harm, distress or pain. But there is a definite difference between these and crimes AGAINST THE PERSON.

I'm making a specific distinction of causing direct physical harm to the PERSON, face-to-face, as opposed to causing distress to a 'victim'.

From a perpetrators point of view, a burglar could operate for 50 years, causing pain and distress to multiple people, yet on a person to person basis NEVER be capable of raising a hand to harm another PERSON.

So, how are we bridging the gap from these petty crimes to a serious physical crime. I'm not a follower of criminology, this is my first involvement in something like this.

What would be the pattern to escalate from such petty crimes for self gratification, particularly with a sexual element, to major physical crimes against a person?

I understand what you mean about the 'person' as defined in law. I honestly don't know if
the 'harm' in the guidelines is making a distinction between physical or emotional, I would have thought both, as both may occur. I'm not a legal person...just interested. As I say my personal inkling is that going from just observing outside homes to entering homes IS an escalation, whether it caused distress or not.

I found this interesting passage in a book about progression from non-contact offences to full on physical assaults. I'm thinking the police must suspect PR fits the bill! In some cases peeping is a prelude to assault, part of the process.

Crime Classification Manual

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Not a clue, but the bench is clearly visible from the opposite side. LE will have worked backwards from spidercam though, and pieced together where else PR had been that night.

I think rather than coming 'back' into Hull, he's probably spent some time driving or walking around the Beresford area, given his 'familiarity' with it. This may be the point at which he saw LS.

I also wondered whether he'd been parked up across the road somewhere. He may have been looking to commit another crime in that area when a different opportunity arose

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Deleted, quoting myself!

 

[Vermont24]

I also wondered whether he'd been parked up across the road somewhere. He may have been looking to commit another crime in that area when a different opportunity arose

There was mention in MSM, albeit at the lower end, of someone in a balaclava in the area that night. Hopefully that was mentioned at the time so I don't have to choose between linking to The Mirror or Daily Mail. Let's assume for a moment that it happened, and that person was PR. He could have spotted LS close to her house, or even scared her off, before following her back to the main road.

LS's house looks to have a porch. It's quite normal for people not to lock the external door, and only lock the front door itself. If it's -5c and I'm locked out, I'm sitting in the porch. Unless there's a reason not to...

 

[Joolz1975]

I think he was possibly stopped at the traffic lights on the other side of the road - a perfect view of the damsel in distress and he may even have seen GreyBeard drive off. Quick right and right and round the bend of Haworth, and he's literally metres away from her.

Yeh I think this also.

I think he saw the interaction between LS and grey beard and decided to look round for a better look.

 

[alfiedug]

Maybe he's safer in there than out here. Plus being in prison now it will come off he's sentence. Maybe he will change plea at the last minute.

 

[alfiedug]

Yeh I think this also.

I think he saw the interaction between LS and grey beard and decided to look round for a better look.

But when grey bead stoped LS and ask for help it was across the road from the bench. I believe PR was coming along Beverley rd and see what was happening. At this junction

 

[Joolz1975]

But when grey bead stoped LS and ask for help it was across the road from the bench. I believe PR was coming along Beverley rd and see what was happening. At this junction

I know that's why I didn't say he saw her at the bench .

Haworth St is still a good vantage point for watching goings on though, less obvious than pulling up on main road and watching.

 

[alfiedug]

I know that's why I didn't say he saw her at the bench .

Haworth St is still a good vantage point for watching goings on though, less obvious than pulling up on main road and watching.

lol sorry Joolz

 

[Plod]

But when grey bead stoped LS and ask for help it was across the road from the bench. I believe PR was coming along Beverley rd and see what was happening. At this junction

Or he could have seen her wandering alone down Beresford and out onto Beverley.

 

[Joolz1975]

lol sorry Joolz

No problem Alfie, think we both think the same thing anyhow

 

[TheCasual]

The longer this goes on the more I have my my doubts it's PR.

They seem to mountains of evidence on his other crimes he is accused of.

But he may of killed a girl, hid a her body and covered his tracks remarkable well.

Maybe LE had idea that he was a deviant and was obviously in the area Libby was last seen.

 

[Joolz1975]

Or he could have seen her wandering alone down Beresford and out onto Beverley.

Near where the hammer and screwdriver were found.

 

[Vermont24]

Let's remember that PR was parked facing away from the main road, and there was initially another car behind him. That doesn't sound like somebody watching the world go by to me. I'll bet he's arrived there after LS did, sat and waited.

 

[Plod]

The longer this goes on the more I have my my doubts it's PR.

They seem to mountains of evidence on his other crimes he is accused of.

But he may of killed a girl, hid a her body and covered his tracks remarkable well.

Maybe LE had idea that he was a deviant and was obviously in the area Libby was last seen.

.



Can’t see how you can doubt he’s involved. He’s charged with a history of sexually motivated crimes, there’s a young woman missing in the area who was drunk and vulnerable, and his family have said she was in his car.... it’s just unfortunate, she has not been found yet. Many of us on the site believe that’s because she ended up in the river.

 

[TheCasual]

.



Can’t see how you can doubt he’s involved. He’s charged with a history of sexually motivated crimes, there’s a young woman missing in the area who was drunk and vulnerable, and his family have said she was in his car.... it’s just unfortunate, she has not been found yet. Many of us on the site believe that’s because she ended up in the river.

My doubts are because I fail see how he could cover his tracks so well.

 

[Deleted member 238128]

The longer this goes on the more I have my my doubts it's PR.

They seem to mountains of evidence on his other crimes he is accused of.

But he may of killed a girl, hid a her body and covered his tracks remarkable well.

Maybe LE had idea that he was a deviant and was obviously in the area Libby was last seen.

I think you’re barking up the wrong P

 

[Plod]

My doubts are because I fail see how he could cover his tracks so well.

Well we don’t know what evidence the police have got - they may just be holding off charging as they need to fill in all the pieces. The fact they have him in custody gives them more time to piece it together.