CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

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Thread#39, page 75, Prelim hearing 2/19/2019, CBI Agent Slater testifying:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
State says Frazee also called an Idaho number at 4:37 p.m. Slater says it hit off the same tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Shortly after, he received a call from that same number. Slater says it pinged off a tower in Divide. @KOAA

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
At this point, police had PF’s phone & records for his phone. Agents found PF called his mother around 4:24 p.m. They determined his phone pinged off a tower near Berreth’s townhome, heading west from there. @KOAA

@eve9059
In context, Slater was referring to PF's pings which are further verified hitting the WP and Divide towers in the depths of the SW's, try SW112 page14, for 11/22:

4:24 PF calls SF1, PF phone uses WP tower, southwest sector
4:37 PF calls KK, PF phone uses WP tower, east sector
4:43 KK calls PF, PF phone uses Divide tower
4:49 PF phone pings null, PF phone uses Florissant tower

JMO LE has provided no information about where and when any of KK's burner phones pinged or made calls that I have seen, except in the AW item#72 where the claim is made that "all three phones were connected to the CC tower between 17:01-18:14 on Nov. 24" which is obviated by other statements in the SW's stating KB's phone's last ping was on 11/24 at 4:03PM at Florissant (SW#112 page 19) IMO
I originally thought this too, but I went and read the search warrant closely and discovered it was PF's phone that hit the tower when he called the Idaho number and it called back.

Page 13 on this search warrant.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-120 Search Warrant.pdf
 
I definitely agree.

I said that as soon as he lawyered up.

It was clear that he was thinking “no body, no crime, no murder charge.”

He was all but challenging law enforcement to make a case against him, and they did not disappoint.

Well, us anyways.

Yes, but in all fairness, let's give credit where credit is due.

Sure, LE's built a beautiful case, but it's PF who supplied them with all the Legos.

Probably kept them stashed in his toybox, along with his Woody from Toy Story doll.

JMO.
 
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No credit to KK?
She obviously made tremendous contributions, but it was PF involving her in the first place, that led to his downfall.

Coupled with his lies, and idiotic cell phone activity, I’m giving him most of the credit for digging his own grave.

She couldn’t squeal on him, if PF didn’t first enlist her help.
 
She obviously made tremendous contributions, but it was PF involving her in the first place, that led to his downfall.

Coupled with his lies, and idiotic cell phone activity, I’m giving him most of the credit for digging his own grave.

She couldn’t squeal on him, if PF didn’t first enlist her help.

I do love your turn of phrase...."squeal."

So apropos.

JMO.
 
I definitely agree.

I said that as soon as he lawyered up.

It was clear that he was thinking “no body, no crime, no murder charge.”

He was all but challenging law enforcement to make a case against him, and they did not disappoint.

Well, us anyways.
I so agree....As most of us on here who follow cases and look at the details know...even given the case and forensic evidence on a silver platter, there are some agencies that will screw that up beyond repair.

I think LE and the DA's office here has done a terrific job.

They had a lot of help from PF and KK and their special level of dim-witted hijinks, no doubt. But, sadly, there are many who would not have done much with all this.

I am just hoping Necrosearch has all the same success.
 
I’ve been so behind the eight ball here due to having to do Continuing Education requirements lately but I was just reading through page 1 of this thread and Tippy Lynn’s timeline (Super huge kudos to TL for the time in putting all that together)....

I get snagged up on the 7th bullet down for Thursday, November 22nd (Thanksgiving) where it says that CB stated she received a text from KB’s phone that “evening” that KB got her gun back and felt safe now with PF.

Obviously what we know now, KB appears not to have been alive on the evening of Thanksgiving , 11/22/2018 ...but I haven’t seen anything in the SW’s etc that mentions/references this text! “Safe now with PF” raises a big red flag for me (or should it mean safe now FROM PF) but I might be misunderstanding something (usually the case ) Did PF send this fake text??

Can anyone help me out of the woods on this one?? TIA

I was searching for that exact thing earlier. I was searching the timeline for “target shooting”. I seem to remember the gun being given back the night before (on 11/21) and that KB told CB she “felt safe” and had gone or was going to go target shooting. And that she told CB that the night before. Maybe I’m remembering it incorrectly, but I’d swear we discussed it before. Hmmm.... going to search some more.
 
RE: the gun given back to KB. Seems to be discrepancies in the reporting from the Prelim hearing

11 a.m.: Cheryl also said that Kelsey told her it was "nice to have her gun back" and that "she felt safe now," according to Slater. He learned from Cheryl that Frazee took Kelsey's gun after they had an argument over finances on Jan. 1, 2017. During that argument, Berreth allegedly said "Maybe I'd be better off dead" and pointed the gun at herself. Slater says Berreth got the gun back on Nov. 22, 2018
Accomplice: Kelsey Berreth was blindfolded, beaten, burned by fiance

Adams said Berreth’s mother claimed her daughter had been with Frazee the night before her disappearance. That evening, Berreth’s mother said her daughter called again to say Frazee had given her her gun back, and that she had gone target shooting.
CBI: Idaho nurse claimed Patrick Frazee fatally beat Kelsey Berreth, burned her body
 
I definitely agree.

I said that as soon as he lawyered up.

It was clear that he was thinking “no body, no crime, no murder charge.”

He was all but challenging law enforcement to make a case against him, and they did not disappoint.

Well, us anyways.

I have a narcissistic family member like that. When she closes her eyes, she disappears.:rolleyes:
 
IIRC, it was determined that PF sent that text to CB. Its meaning is unclear, IMO. "Safe now" doesn't really make sense - why would she feel safe WITH him now that she got her gun back? What was PF trying to convey?

ITA it's one of the mysterious details we have here.
I hope we get clarification on it.

edited to remove a word

“She felt safe now” implied to me that KB felt safer in general, having her self protection back. Oddly, there aren’t a lot of indications that KB feared PF, aside from the hospital outburst and there were some unhappy horse customers. Of course, we’ve heard KK was afraid.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if Ma F wasn’t herself afraid of PF.

I’m sure we will hear much more at trial, especially if there was a history of threats or abuse. We shall see.
 
“She felt safe now” implied to me that KB felt safer in general, having her self protection back. Oddly, there aren’t a lot of indications that KB feared PF, aside from the hospital outburst and there were some unhappy horse customers. Of course, we’ve heard KK was afraid.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if Ma F wasn’t herself afraid of PF.

I’m sure we will hear much more at trial, especially if there was a history of threats or abuse. We shall see.
Yeah, I don’t think KB feared PF, despite seeing flashes of his dark side.

The night before he murdered her, she was out running errands for him, and helping him with his animals.

She obviously cared for him.

I also don’t think she would have fallen for his candle sniffing ruse, had she felt that something bad was likely to happen.
 
I so agree....As most of us on here who follow cases and look at the details know...even given the case and forensic evidence on a silver platter, there are some agencies that will screw that up beyond repair.

I think LE and the DA's office here has done a terrific job.

They had a lot of help from PF and KK and their special level of dim-witted hijinks, no doubt. But, sadly, there are many who would not have done much with all this.

I am just hoping Necrosearch has all the same success.
ITA. Local LE, CBI, and the FBI did a superb job, arrested this nematode in under three weeks without a body, and got baby K swiftly to the custody of her maternal grandmother in the process. And kudos to the judge who denied bail, also. I can't think of a similar case with such a speedy arrest. There are so many cases that go cold for years, or are not ever brought to trial.
 
Hi all Eve here,
This is my first post so correct any rule violations/mistakes so I can learn. Been following this closely:

My opinion:
PF is the brains here, particularly given his temperament and stronger motive (even if it’s vicariously through his family.) He wasn’t “leaving KB for KK,” he was using a desperate and pathetic woman. She strikes me as the type to fall in love with and wed serial killers on death row, driving thousands of miles to do his bidding, not unlike Kelsey’s sad last night on earth. I think he did it but there is reasonable doubt for that, and I believe they charged him twice with murder for that reason, the second charge being murder “alone or with another person” and adding robbery to make it a felony murder conviction (the party to a crime thing-you don’t have to be there-not sure if CO even has it or if that’s what they’re doing but that’s what I “heard”.)

My concerns:
Specifically,

* in one of the threads with the extremely detailed timeline with almost court transcripts, it says specifically that PF called a burner phone that pinged near him on the 22nd. The CBI testifying says that twice. Am I misinterpreting that? If not, then the prosecution has a real problem. Because that would support KK being there (southwest of KB’s house I think). How she could be in Ida the 23rd to trade cars I don’t know but it’s not good. Particularly since she admitted to burning multiple burner phones.
*KK says she was “instructed” to go to KB’s house to send a text. That implies that they aren’t stupid when it comes to cell phones. So what, then, is the purpose of burner phones? Surely PF knows that having KB’s phone with him for two days sending messages back and forth is not him being stupid. It must be purposeful.
*Generally I’m allergic to conspiracy theories but I believe he is trying to frame KK who is by no means innocent but they will pin it all on her and I’m afraid at least one juror will buy it. If they were using burners will there be evidence beyond her word of the solicitations? If not, that will be gone.

I see KK’s thrice attempted murders (if true) as-hear me out-more of a testament to her character. Not compared to a normal person- but compared to him. If that is true and they can prove it, it shows that she was pathetic and immoral but ultimately couldn’t or wouldn’t do it. I think PF could as he’s abusive to animals and that tells me all I need to know.

Bottom line: they’re both equally involved. The CSI effect though makes people confuse “reasonable” doubt with “bloody fingerprints and a video of the murder.” I mean, look at all of Scott Peterson’s supporters-there’s’s an astounding amount of circumstantial evidence but an enormous amount of people think he’s innocent. There is much less here. They’re both involved and I fear they may both walk. Poor KB, baby K and dear sweet CB. It’s always the sweetest and least deserving it seems that this happens to.

That was a lot. Any thoughts welcome, especially if you have more information/evidence re: burner phone communication on the 22nd. CBI agent confirms it twice that he is either by his or her house and the burner is Southwest of Kb’s House and then Divide. Problematic!

Welcome to websleuths!!! Thought provoking first post.
 
Yeah, I don’t think KB feared PF, despite seeing flashes of his dark side.

The night before he murdered her, she was out running errands for him, and helping him with his animals.

She obviously cared for him.

I also don’t think she would have fallen for his candle sniffing ruse, had she felt that something bad was likely to happen.
I think of KB as a sweet, spiritual, somewhat reserved person who looked for the good in everyone. When I follow cases, I try to get a feel for the essence of the victims without overly idealizing them. Some are sweet, some are spunky, but none deserve to have their lives cut short by another. MOO
 
Adams said Berreth’s mother claimed her daughter had been with Frazee the night before her disappearance. That evening, Berreth’s mother said her daughter called again to say Frazee had given her her gun back, and that she had gone target shooting.
Where was little K, if/when KB had gone target shooting?
Where was little K, if/when KB had gone cattle checking?
Does a mum or dad really take a one year old to these nocturnal employments?
 
I think PF was trying to to avert suspicion by painting a picture of them ending the relationship on friendly terms. By feeling safe he meant that Kelsey trusted him and was grateful for keeping her safe (the opposite of what he was doing) despite breaking up with him. On the other hand, it also implied that he was not worried about her being suicidal. Weren't they planning to claim that Kelsey went away and killed herself?
This has also been worrisome to me, and I reached pretty similiar conclusions as you in regards to her meaning "safe" as in emotionally safe or stable. I am unsure as to whether PF said this or if this is what PF told CB. The deal with the gun went back to New Year's Eve after the baby was born. KB put a gun to her head and threatened to shoot herself. PF took her gun away at that time. This was mentioned by CB so it apparently happened. Remember that PF said that they broke up on New Year's Eve of the previous year. This is my theory, at this point, connecting some of the dots. I think that KB expected that they would get married now that the baby was born. I think that was when PF used the lack of money to delay marrying her and she was devastated and probably ashamed because she had had a baby out of wedlock and now the dad was not marrying her. It appears that they did not fully break up, and had an up and down relationship. I feel this is what put KB in a deep depression. I think she also emotionally started pulling away from him. For some people, when you expect to spend a lifetime with someone and are deeply committed you can't just poof, and walk away. You slowly start to separate emotionally and detach. PF likely sensed this and would tug on her heart strings to pull her back. He wanted control ove whether she stayed or left. I think she was afraid of him and wanted to leave but was also afraid to do so.

I think that Patrick gave the gun back and said she seemed to be in an emotionally good place in order to make sure CB and law enforcement knew that she had a gun. Obviously that gun was missing. This was to set the stage that she went somewhere and committed suicide. He mentioned this in his interview with law enforcement. To both CB and LE, he made sure it sounded like she was stable and good with the breakup...in fact, as though she were the one beaking up. It would have been negligent of him to give the gun back if she were distraught, so he needed to play up what a good place she was in. This could have been believeable that she hiked out somewhere and ended things, but that would have required that it be local and there were those Idaho pings. Idaho could have been believeable, but her vehicles were in the driveway. To have come up with elaborate scenarios and then forgot key points is just so weird.
 
This has also been worrisome to me, and I reached pretty similiar conclusions as you in regards to her meaning "safe" as in emotionally safe or stable. I am unsure as to whether PF said this or if this is what PF told CB. The deal with the gun went back to New Year's Eve after the baby was born. KB put a gun to her head and threatened to shoot herself. PF took her gun away at that time. This was mentioned by CB so it apparently happened. Remember that PF said that they broke up on New Year's Eve of the previous year. This is my theory, at this point, connecting some of the dots. I think that KB expected that they would get married now that the baby was born. I think that was when PF used the lack of money to delay marrying her and she was devastated and probably ashamed because she had had a baby out of wedlock and now the dad was not marrying her. It appears that they did not fully break up, and had an up and down relationship. I feel this is what put KB in a deep depression. I think she also emotionally started pulling away from him. For some people, when you expect to spend a lifetime with someone and are deeply committed you can't just poof, and walk away. You slowly start to separate emotionally and detach. PF likely sensed this and would tug on her heart strings to pull her back. He wanted control ove whether she stayed or left. I think she was afraid of him and wanted to leave but was also afraid to do so.

I think that Patrick gave the gun back and said she seemed to be in an emotionally good place in order to make sure CB and law enforcement knew that she had a gun. Obviously that gun was missing. This was to set the stage that she went somewhere and committed suicide. He mentioned this in his interview with law enforcement. To both CB and LE, he made sure it sounded like she was stable and good with the breakup...in fact, as though she were the one beaking up. It would have been negligent of him to give the gun back if she were distraught, so he needed to play up what a good place she was in. This could have been believeable that she hiked out somewhere and ended things, but that would have required that it be local and there were those Idaho pings. Idaho could have been believeable, but her vehicles were in the driveway. To have come up with elaborate scenarios and then forgot key points is just so weird.
Freaky Frazee....it's a whole different level of weird!
 
Its pretty common for those in the ranching business to have more than one truck. Its almost necessary. So I am not surprised that he had a couple.
I am not surprised he had 2-3 but is it important where at least two of those truck were on the 21-24 th? As far as we know there is no video of PF in a truck with a tote in the back. I WS just curious with all the back n forth on the early morning hours of the 22 nd, I doubtedKB left her vehicle at the ranch, when she went with PF to check cattle.
 
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