CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

I think it did produce dark smoke, I don’t think anyone had any reason to be suspicious.

Unless someone lives in a very rural area they will probably never understand how common burning various things is. Moo

Right or wrong, illegal or legal. It happens quite frequently and many pay no attention. Unless it’s the middle of the summer and very dry.

Exactly.

And they found clumps of plastic, discolored earth, and testing ultimately indicated that an accelerant had been used in that area.

This isn’t just KK saying “there was a fire there.”

 

[MyBelle]

At night you most likely would not be able to see the black plume of smoke, and depending on wind direction if anyone nearby would smell it. I do know plastic or similar compounds would smell horribly , if you have ever smelled a vehicle tire burning I think that would come close to the smell, adding quite a bit of wood might cover it a little. Gasoline IMO would only enhance it. No wonder KK reported a headache if she stayed around the fire for any length of time plus she was sleep deprived we assume.
It seems to me they panicked and just did the first thing that came to mind, PF had over 24 hours to have thought of a better plan than burning IMO .

The stinking smell would be very noticeable and I think adding wood to it would make it even more noticeable and "heavy." The smoke would be toxic if inhaled. KK is a nurse and she would know that fact.

We also know KK is a liar. I just don't believe PF took the trouble to hide the body in a remote barn only to turn around and burn it in his front yard. He may have burned the tote in his yard but I doubt KB's body was in it.

JMO

 

[BingoBongo]

He appears quite arrogant and entitled, so he might be in denial. No body, no conviction, was likely his original plan.

My take too. Narcissists never think they're wrong, so what is there to catch?

 

[BingoBongo]

Yeah, I don’t think KB feared PF, despite seeing flashes of his dark side.

The night before he murdered her, she was out running errands for him, and helping him with his animals.

She obviously cared for him.

I also don’t think she would have fallen for his candle sniffing ruse, had she felt that something bad was likely to happen.

I read something once when researching narcissism, that made lot of sense. They generally attract, and are attracted to, people who cannot conceive of lying to or harming someone they love (not even someone they don't love), so it's easier for the narc to pull the wool over because of that.

 

[GordianKnot]

The stinking smell would be very noticeable and I think adding wood to it would make it even more noticeable and "heavy." The smoke would be toxic if inhaled. KK is a nurse and she would know that fact.

We also know KK is a liar. I just don't believe PF took the trouble to hide the body in a remote barn only to turn around and burn it in his front yard. He may have burned the tote in his yard but I doubt KB's body was in it.

JMO

Toxic fumes were probably the least of KK's worries, considering she'd just spent hours scrubbing KB's lifeblood off walls, floors, countertops, fireplaces, and every other surface PF splattered it with a baseball hat. That crime scene at the townhome posed a much greater biohazard, and it apparently didn't phase her. Also, she admits herself that she was able to put away pizza after inhaling the toxic smoke at the bonfire, so clearly she's relatively inured to such exposures.

Agreed that KK is a liar, but she's a self-serving liar who cares about her own hide first and foremost. She knows she has to give a factual accounting in order for her sweetie beauty of a deal with the DA to hold.

Rest assured, the DA did not just take KK at her word. There is going to be a plethora of corroborating evidence that will support her testimony at trial.

All of the Above: JMO.

 

[Nudgee]

Exactly.

And they found clumps of plastic, discolored earth, and testing ultimately indicated that an accelerant had been used in that area.

This isn’t just KK saying “there was a fire there.”

Speaking of KK... I have to admit @MassGuy , that I was really upset about the deal KK got. I did take the encouragement you constantly posted to us doubters that there wouldn’t be a case without her, as horrible as KK may be. Now, after reading the WS thread here about Andreen McDonald/29/Texas (I highly encourage anyone following this case to read the @8 pages of threads on AM) I now see exactly why DA May made the deal. The AM case closely parrells this case (and throw in a little CW case as well regarding concerned friends). The big difference so far? The husband is in custody only for tampering w/evidence, so far. With no body yet, they can’t charge him with murder. I won’t got into too much detail to throw things off topic from this thread, but for any doubters (like myself) regarding KK and her plea deal, things just might be more acceptable. I know it surely changed my opinion of the plea deal.

 

[Gardenista]

I've been watching the Bo Dukes trial. He was involved with burning the body of Tara Grinstead after she was murdered. He and his buddy used 4-5 pickup truck loads of oak and pecan wood (which apparently burn very hot) stacked waist-high, over a few days. About 13 years later, they only found about 10-15 bone fragments which were very small and a few teeth.

 

[MassGuy]

Speaking of KK... I have to admit @MassGuy , that I was really upset about the deal KK got. I did take the encouragement you constantly posted to us doubters that there wouldn’t be a case without her, as horrible as KK may be. Now, after reading the WS thread here about Andreen McDonald/29/Texas (I highly encourage anyone following this case to read the @8 pages of threads on AM) I now see exactly why DA May made the deal. The AM case closely parrells this case (and throw in a little CW case as well regarding concerned friends). The big difference so far? The husband is in custody only for tampering w/evidence, so far. With no body yet, they can’t charge him with murder. I won’t got into too much detail to throw things off topic from this thread, but for any doubters (like myself) regarding KK and her plea deal, things just might be more acceptable. I know it surely changed my opinion of the plea deal.

I’ll check that out, thanks!

Yeah, I think all of us are appalled that KK is going to get off so light.

What she did was as immoral as it was criminal.

She is a terrible human being, who contributed to the death of an innocent mother.

Our reaction to her and her involvement, is an emotional one.

Logically though, her contributions to this case have been vital, and will be vital going forward (via testimony).

No one is happy that she will get off far lighter than she should, but I’m convinced it’s necessary in order to nail the much bigger fish.

Far too many “no body murder cases” go unprosecuted.

The stunning speed at which PF was arrested, was as a direct result of KK.

We want both of them to pay, but I don’t think it’s wise to gamble with PF walking.

 

[ab01]

I’ll check that out, thanks!

Yeah, I think all of us are appalled that KK is going to get off so light.

What she did was as immoral as it was criminal.

She is a terrible human being, who contributed to the death of a young mother.

Our reaction to her and her involvement, is an emotional one.

Logically though, her contributions to this case have been vital, and will be vital (via testimony).

No one is happy that she will get off far lighter than she should, but I’m convinced it’s necessary in order to nail the much bigger fish.

Far too many “no body murder cases” go unprosecuted.

The stunning speed at which PF was arrested, was as a direct result of KK.

We want both of them to pay, but I don’t think it’s wise to gamble with PF walking.

Yep and just to add: I don’t believe the DA in this case took the implications of a plea deal lightly.

He wasn’t suckered by kk and offered a deal to quickly etc

They knew who the true monster was and they wanted to make sure he is put where he belongs!

MOEO

 

[Gardenista]

There are a couple of photos of the bones found on this post

GA - TRIAL OF Ryan Alexander Duke & Bo Dukes - Tara Grinstead, 29, Ocilla, 22 Oct 2005

 

[MassGuy]

Yep and just to add: I don’t believe the DA in this case to the implication of a plea deal lightly.

He wasn’t suckered by kk and offered a deal to quickly etc

They knew who the true monster was and thet wanted to make sure he is put where he belongs!

MOEO

Yeah. He would have been well aware as to the optics of this, and the implications of allowing someone with KK’s involvement, to essentially walk.

He did the math, and decided that a deal was in the best interests of justice.

Her account would have been thoroughly vetted, and her story would have to jibe with the evidence.

All indications are that it does, and this self admitted liar, is finally telling the truth.

Her testimony is all but worthless, unless the evidence corroborates it.

Cell phone records, dog hits, and forensic evidence, back her up.

 

[ab01]

Yeah. He would have been well aware as to the optics of this, and the implications of allowing someone with KK’s involvement, to essentially walk.

He did the math, and decided that a deal was in the best interests of justice.

Her account would have been thoroughly vetted, and her story would have to jibe with the evidence.

All indications are that it does, and this self admitted liar, is finally telling the truth.

Her testimony is all but worthless, unless the evidence corroborates it.

Cell phone records, dog hits, and forensic evidence, back her up.

Yah I’m rather curious to learn what all little tidbits they have to back up things that kk has said. I think there are going to be many little pieces and I think they will be very damning! MOEO

 

[MassGuy]

Yah I’m rather curious to learn what all little tidbits they have to back up things that kk has said. I think there are going to be many little pieces and I think they will be very damning! MOEO

When discovery was released in the Watts case, I couldn’t believe how extensive the evidence was against him.

We thought we knew everything, but we came to realize that there was plenty that we didn’t know.

As PF’s plot was contingent upon cell phone activity, I see the evidence against him being a lot like that (extensive), but far more detailed and lengthy.

Trial will certainly bring plenty of bombshell revelations.

 

[Nudgee]

I’ll check that out, thanks!

Yeah, I think all of us are appalled that KK is going to get off so light.

What she did was as immoral as it was criminal.

She is a terrible human being, who contributed to the death of an innocent mother.

Our reaction to her and her involvement, is an emotional one.

Logically though, her contributions to this case have been vital, and will be vital going forward (via testimony).

No one is happy that she will get off far lighter than she should, but I’m convinced it’s necessary in order to nail the much bigger fish.

Far too many “no body murder cases” go unprosecuted.

The stunning speed at which PF was arrested, was as a direct result of KK.

We want both of them to pay, but I don’t think it’s wise to gamble with PF walking.

VITAL being a key word.

Here’s the WS link to Andreen McDonald, her husband Andre McDonald (talk about confusing) appears to be even more arrogant than PF.... who would think that was possible. Hope I’m not breaking WS rules by cross referencing another WS thread but I do think it supports the importance of a plea deal.... or more murderers walk free. Ok, last I’ll mention it

Deceased/Not Found - TX - Andreen McDonald, 29, Bexar County, 1 Mar 2019 *husband arrested*

 

[PrairieWind]

Yeah. He would have been well aware as to the optics of this, and the implications of allowing someone with KK’s involvement, to essentially walk.

He did the math, and decided that a deal was in the best interests of justice.

Her account would have been thoroughly vetted, and her story would have to jibe with the evidence.

All indications are that it does, and this self admitted liar, is finally telling the truth.

Her testimony is all but worthless, unless the evidence corroborates it.

Cell phone records, dog hits, and forensic evidence, back her up.

Having to give plea deals to despicable people isn't at all unusual, and I don't really have a problem with it in this case. They needed her information. What is a bit surprising to me about this deal is how quickly it came about. I am assuming perhaps two things were at play. First, their concern for the safety of the child, and second that KK's lawyer drove hard bargain of "now or never."

 

[MemPat]

It appears to have been over custody.

A custody document was seized from from the Frazee property, that was written back in August (solicitations began in September).

One of the search warrants also detailed how social services was called at the hospital, when the baby was born.

PF wasn’t happy that mom and baby weren’t having what he thought, was proper bonding time.

He let this be known (through that famous temper of his), and staff became concerned that he was abusing Kelsey.

He was a possessive man with a temper, who wanted sole custody.

And I often wonder if, even more than PF wanted sole custody, He wanted Kelsey NOT to have it.

 

[MassGuy]

And I often wonder if, even more than PF wanted sole custody, He wanted Kelsey NOT to have it.

I wouldn’t be surprised.

You don’t beat someone to death with a baseball bat, unless you hate them.

 

[GordianKnot]

And I often wonder if, even more than PF wanted sole custody, He wanted Kelsey NOT to have it.

Ain't no way PF was going to pay child support to KB.

In fact, his literal thinking was probably something along the lines of "over her dead body."

JMO.

 

[Kapua]

I’ll check that out, thanks!

Yeah, I think all of us are appalled that KK is going to get off so light.

What she did was as immoral as it was criminal.

She is a terrible human being, who contributed to the death of an innocent mother.

Our reaction to her and her involvement, is an emotional one.

Logically though, her contributions to this case have been vital, and will be vital going forward (via testimony).

No one is happy that she will get off far lighter than she should, but I’m convinced it’s necessary in order to nail the much bigger fish.

Far too many “no body murder cases” go unprosecuted.

The stunning speed at which PF was arrested, was as a direct result of KK.

We want both of them to pay, but I don’t think it’s wise to gamble with PF walking.

And the speedy arrest also led to the rescue of baby K, who remains in the custody of her maternal grandmother. This is huge. There is indeed great value to KKL's story. When she describes the bloody scene at KB's condo, she will effectively be turning the key in the lock of PFs cell. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

And the speedy arrest also led to the rescue of baby K, who remains in the custody of her maternal grandmother. This is huge. There is indeed great value to KKL's story. When she describes the bloody scene at KB's condo, she will effectively be turning the key in the lock of PFs cell. MOO

Yup.

Personally, I don’t believe that baby was in any danger, but that’s not a chance you can take (especially if the evidence is there).

They had what they needed, and they moved.