Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #13 *ARREST*

[mrjitty]

What's happening with him on Monday, is he up on the 12 charges? Might he get released?

I'm wondering if, as long as he's in custody, there is no point re-arresting him and starting the 96 hours ticking if they're still waiting for evidence, they might as well hold off for as long as possible knowing he can't go awol. Which might mean he gets re-arrested after the next court hearing, especially if he gets released on time served or not guilty.

Yes - they have him banged up already, so no need to fret on that front

 

[Newthoughts]

I do, @Pinkizzy - it seemed interesting, a potential prior abduction attempt with accomplice in the area a few days earlier; but the reports were dead vague. Most newspapers quoted the Mirror as the source, but I couldn't find their original story . It also kind of got folded into that other story about a fake taxi plying for trade on Newland Ave on on 3 Feb. That car, a VW, was identified and the driver investigated by police.

@PaddyOreally? and @Mersault originally discussed the balaclava/taxi abduction attempt on here and referenced the Sun but without a link. Maybe it's been since been quietly dropped from the Mirror/Sun's website.

I recall it vaguely early on. An abduction attempt by two people. Is the fact it's seemingly been dropped from MSM likely to be relevant?

 

[Vaccine]

RIP Libby. Its a very sad resolution and I feel for her family. The river is a cold and lonely place for one so young and full of life.

My own view, for what its worth (and very likely to be proved wrong) is that this was an opportunist crime carried out by one person. Unplanned and spur of the moment with no time to summon accomplices; resulting from the recognition of her vulnerable and intoxicated state. I suspect there was no prior knowledge of her or her movements - just a chance to take advantage of someone who was alone and defenceless. Sadly if it is PR who did it his opportunity lay in the fact that he will have looked less threatening than the spooky grey haired guy who asked her if she needed help.

My feeling is the events happened quickly and her death and/or disposal of her body followed on from it quickly. If there was water nearby that would have presented itself as an instant solution. If he drove away from the area very likely the river or drainage was close by to the scene. She may or may not have been dead when entering the water - but she would I think at least have been rendered unconscious. Hence the post mortem presenting the possibility of homicide - there is some evidence of some form of injury that had been inflicted prior to entry into the water or no water was in the lungs (suggesting she was dead before she hit the water).

However, I have a feeling and fear that the police have very little evidence beyond what we already know. And I am doubtful that a body that has been in the water for such a length of time will render much DNA evidence of her attacker. So, aside from a confession I do believe there is a real risk that the police may not have sufficient evidence to charge their suspect. But I do hope I'm wrong.

 

[bos]

What's happening with him on Monday, is he up on the 12 charges? Might he get released?


I'm wondering if, as long as he's in custody, there is no point re-arresting him and starting the 96 hours ticking if they're still waiting for evidence, they might as well hold off for as long as possible knowing he can't go awol. Which might mean he gets re-arrested after the next court hearing, especially if he gets released on time served or not guilty.

He was up on all 12 last Monday, lead not guilty to all, trial scheduled 22nd July in Sheffield with pre-trial appearance 18thJune iirc

 

[Joolz1975]

But as he's in custody anyway and not going anywhere soon, how hard did they try with the abduction charge?
Could be that they do have more, and were just biding their time until Libby was found.

I really hope that is the case Cherwell.

It would be awful if he is responsible for her death and was never found guilty of it.

 

[mrjitty]

That's what I thought initially, we don't hear it that often in the UK! But it's essentially an umbrella term for various degrees of murder and manslaughter so they're hedging their bets / covering their arses. See my post from about an hour or two ago, gives a rundown on the terms.

Homicide is actually a very british, common law term and also enshrined in the criminal law that kiwis learn

In terms of the donkey plodding of legally proving a murder, you need a death (obvs) and then you need it to be a culpable homicide - i.e. it was caused by an illegal act so someone is criminally responsible for it.

As you've already posted, the state of mind of the accused will determine whether it is the lesser offence of manslaughter, or murder

For joe public, homicide doesn't come up much, because usually its obvious the person was killed by some unlawful means

 

[mrjitty]

But as he's in custody anyway and not going anywhere soon, how hard did they try with the abduction charge?
Could be that they do have more, and were just biding their time until Libby was found.

BIB

Of course, because without a body, it would have been exceptionally difficult to prove death, and also to show the actus reus

i.e. what unlawful act caused death?

 

[Joolz1975]

What's happening with him on Monday, is he up on the 12 charges? Might he get released?

I'm wondering if, as long as he's in custody, there is no point re-arresting him and starting the 96 hours ticking if they're still waiting for evidence, they might as well hold off for as long as possible knowing he can't go awol. Which might mean he gets re-arrested after the next court hearing, especially if he gets released on time served or not guilty.

Yeh this is kind of where I was heading with my thinking there really is no need to go in and question him again at this point.

Be great if he served his sentence then walked out thinking he was a free man only to be slapped with a murder charge!

Though for Libbys parents sake I hope he is charge much sooner

 

[jessie]

No that’s not what the coroner’s court is for - it’s to establish who the dead person is and how he/she died ie murder, suicide etc. It doesn’t go into the case in any depth. Mainly for the release of death certificate so a funeral take place and if the dead person has any property/money, the relatives can start dealing with that.

The Crown court trial is for the actual trial of the suspect.

As you rightly say Plod:

Inquests in England and Wales - Wikipedia

Scope of inquest[edit]
The purpose of the inquest is to answer four questions:[6][7][8]

• Identity of the deceased
• Place of death
• Time of death
• How the deceased came by his/her death

Evidence must be solely for the purpose of answering these questions and no other evidence is admitted.[7] It is not for the inquest to ascertain "how the deceased died" or "in what broad circumstances", but "how the deceased came by his death", a more limited question.[7] Moreover, it is not the purpose of the inquest to determine, or appear to determine, criminal or civil liability, to apportion guilt or attribute blame.[9]

 

[Newthoughts]

What's happening with him on Monday, is he up on the 12 charges? Might he get released?

I'm wondering if, as long as he's in custody, there is no point re-arresting him and starting the 96 hours ticking if they're still waiting for evidence, they might as well hold off for as long as possible knowing he can't go awol. Which might mean he gets re-arrested after the next court hearing, especially if he gets released on time served or not guilty.

I thought the actual trial wasn't until July and scheduled to take 10 days with CCTV and a lot of witnesses. So he's inside till then at c least

 

[Plod]

As you rightly say Plod:

Inquests in England and Wales - Wikipedia

Scope of inquest[edit]
The purpose of the inquest is to answer four questions:[6][7][8]

• Identity of the deceased
• Place of death
• Time of death
• How the deceased came by his/her death

Evidence must be solely for the purpose of answering these questions and no other evidence is admitted.[7] It is not for the inquest to ascertain "how the deceased died" or "in what broad circumstances", but "how the deceased came by his death", a more limited question.[7] Moreover, it is not the purpose of the inquest to determine, or appear to determine, criminal or civil liability, to apportion guilt or attribute blame.[9]

It’ll be interesting then if it goes ahead unadjourned on Monday what the police say for place of death and time of death - will they just give where/when body was found? Or say it was 1 Feb.

 

[Rollerdisco]

Detective Superintendent Martin Smalley said: "In regards to our investigation, while we have considered throughout the missing person inquiry that Libby may have come to some harm, Libby's death and the recovery of her body now leads us to solely investigate as a potential homicide.

"The post-mortem examination concluded late last night and at this stage, we will not be releasing any results for investigative and operational reasons."

Sky news.

 

[Cherwell]

It’ll be interesting then if it goes ahead unadjourned on Monday what the police say for place of death and time of death - will they just give where/when body was found? Or say it was 1 Feb.

I expect they will say "between 31 January and 21 March" as the usual formula is to give the day before the victim was last seen, and the day after the body is located.
For location I imagine it will simply be given as Hull.

 

[jessie]

It’ll be interesting then if it goes ahead unadjourned on Monday what the police say for place of death and time of death - will they just give where/when body was found? Or say it was 1 Feb.

Wiling to be corrected, but I think time of death is when 'declared' - ie by a doctor/pathologist when found?

ETA Cherwell is better at this ^^^^^^

 

[wtiger]

When i was a lad.. (a minisleuth)

The only people who used the word "homicide" were Columbo and Magnum p.i

C.S.I's were just a S.O.C.O's glimpse of the futuristic

Kid's would still scarper in fear when the local bobby came WALKING (honestly...they did once!) Around the corner.

And for a serious case...the police would simply collar the nearest scally and threaten or beat the identity of the offender out of them

Gawd....i suddenly feel so old

 

[Cherwell]

Cherwell is better at this ^^^^^^

I just remember how there is always somebody who thinks they have got the dates wrong

 

[jessie]

When i was a lad.. (a minisleuth)

The only people who used the word "homicide" were Columbo and Magnum p.i

C.S.I's were just a S.O.C.O's glimpse of the futuristic

Kid's would still scarper in fear when the local bobby came WALKING (honestly...they did once!) Around the corner.

And for a serious case...the police would simply collar the nearest scally and threaten or beat the identity of the offender out of them

Gawd....i suddenly feel so old

Remember "a clip round the ear" !! Be assault now but at the time served its purpose.

 

[Strontium69]

I couldn't help but feel really saddened and touched when I heard the positive ID of Libby. It shocked me as to how upset I felt. Even though most of us were pretty certain she was dead for the entirety of the search and investigation, I felt like we somehow got to know her a little. I found myself unable to look at photos or videos of her any more, I just found it too upsetting. For someone I never met and never knew, it's a new and odd experience for me.

Anyway, I felt compelled to show my respects so I visited the bench today.

I printed out some of your comments and wishes from this thread, and I gifted a bunch of white roses, on behalf of you all...


I tied the comments and the roses to the back of the bench...


The thing that really got me, while I was tying the messages and the roses to the bench, was the smell of scented candles thick in the air. By a fluke of where the bench is, it's out of the wind, and there are lots of little candles burning there. The smell of them just broke me up, it really did.

While I was about to leave I noticed a woman and 2 girls with some flowers. Apologies for the video being from the other side of the road, bit I didn't want to intrude.

There were 5 or 6 media vans there. And there was a couple of people walking around with BBC lanyards on. Some young lass was hovering while I was there, I did speak to her. She was from the press, radio in Leeds, and was keeping her distance, she looked terrified when I spoke to her! I told her I wasn't going to attack her, she looked relieved! I guess that there are plenty of places these reporters are sent where they are not appreciated by the locals.

 

[Winterbells]

There's no sensitive way of putting this, so I'm just going to say what I'm sure everyone is thinking.... I'm wondering how long semen can be detected within a female body that has been in water for several weeks? I've tried googling, but not found anything of any use.

 

[jessie]

I couldn't help but feel really saddened and touched when I heard the positive ID of Libby. It shocked me as to how upset I felt. Even though most of us were pretty certain she was dead for the entirety of the search and investigation, I felt like we somehow got to know her a little. I found myself unable to look at photos or videos of her any more, I just found it too upsetting. For someone I never met and never knew, it's a new and odd experience for me.

Anyway, I felt compelled to show my respects so I visited the bench today.

I printed out some of your comments and wishes from this thread, and I gifted a bunch of white roses, on behalf of you all...
View attachment 175644

I tied the comments and the roses to the back of the bench...
View attachment 175643

The thing that really got me, while I was tying the messages and the roses to the bench, was the smell of scented candles thick in the air. By a fluke of where the bench is, it's out of the wind, and there are lots of little candles burning there. The smell of them just broke me up, it really did.

There were 5 or 6 media vans there. And there was a couple of people walking around with BBC lanyards on. Some young lass was hovering while I was there, I did speak to her. She was from the press, radio in Leeds, and was keeping her distance, she looked terrified when I spoke to her! I told her I wasn't going to attack her, she looked relieved! I guess that there are plenty of places these reporters are sent where they are not appreciated by the locals.
View attachment 175645

Oh bless you @ Strontium69. You have done so much to help find Libby. Your post really moved me.