CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

[Tricia]

On Feb 4th, 2010 the McStay Family, Joey, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph Jr vanished from their home. It looked like the family simply got up and left their home never to return.

Law Enforcement was convinced that the McStay family ran away to Mexico.

Patrick McStay, Joey's father, along with other loved ones knew there was no way Joey and his family would never flee to Mexico. There was no reason for this scenario presented by law enforcement.

Up until the remains of the family were found buried in the desert on November 11, 2013, Patrick McStay searched for his son and his family.

Family friend Chase Merritt was arrested for the McStay family murders on Nov 7th, 2014 and finally, Merritt's first-degree murder trial is underway.

The McStay forum is in our private section. However, we are making the discussion of the trial public.

Link to prior threads
#1 CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

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[Harmony 2]

STOP personalizing posts. Timeouts will be forthcoming if this manner of posting continues.

Differences of opinion are to be expected and are allowed as long as the discussion remains civil and respectful. Looking at something from another angle is the foundation of this forum community. To expect members from all over the world and all walks of life to think the same is unrealistic.

If you don’t agree with a post, either scroll and roll or put the other member on ignore. Do not announce that you are placing someone on ignore- just do it.

Stick to the facts and use links to back up your assertions. If you see a problematic post, hit the alert/report button and move on.

 

[Harmony 2]

It is against TOS to sleuth the families of the victims or the defendant. Moreover, victim bashing is not allowed and will be removed. If you are missing a post check your alerts and the reason for post removal is given.

 

[Harmony 2]

Continue discussion here.

 

[mrjitty]

First page!

 

[Mica]

Following

 

[oceanblueeyes]

MrJitty brought up a excellent point on the closed thread, about this case being very similar to a domestic abuse case, and how Joey feared Chase.

I totally agree. The similarities are uncanny, imo.

In the beginning when Joey first hired CM he had no idea who CM really was. Unfortunately he would learn all too well.

It is common knowledge the most DANGEROUS time of all for a victim of an abusive relationship is when they plan to finally cut all ties with their abuser for good.

Imo, CM purposefully targeted Joey to become his next victim in the very beginning.

Abusers often pick victims they know they can easily control, intimidate by fear, and manipulate. The victims are usually easygoing, peaceful individuals, just like Joey.

I do believe at times, Joey did try to stand up to Merritt, and CM told him.... 'Joey, you really don't want to ever mess with me', and it struck fear in Joey for good reason.

By then Joey had come to know much more about who CM really was.

Often in abusive relationships the abuser will tell the victim they can't survive without them.

Unfortunately, the victims at the time, will believe that is the case.

I think CM also told Joey this many times, and his business couldn't survive without CM being a part of it. It's all twisted mind games the abuser plays day in, and day out in order to maintain control over their victims. Using fear is an important tool to any abuser, and one often used.

BUT, even abuse victims can finally get their fill of the abuser when no longer willing to believe all of the lies, and will finally decide to make a clean break from the one who has made their lives a living hell.

But as I said earlier, this is also the very time their life is in danger more than at any other time in the abusive relationship.

Imo, MrJitty is correct. Joey was trapped in an extremely abusive relationship with a dangerous abuser..

Once Joey had had enough of the horrendous abuse, he finally found the courage to stand up to his abuser, and like countless other victims who have done the same, he, and his entire family was murdered by his abuser.

CM, the abuser, would be the one who would decide how the abusive relationship would end. It would be CM who made the final decision on how it would end, not Joey.

Imo

 

[asyousay]

Surely Joey wouldn’t of just gone into business with him without checking out his CV?

Chase already had a shady history so Joey surely couldn’t of been blind to that from the off as nobody goes into business with somebody without doing a extensive check on their previous work.

 

[mrjitty]

Surely Joey wouldn’t of just gone into business with him without checking out his CV?

Chase already had a shady history so Joey surely couldn’t of been blind to that from the off as nobody goes into business with somebody without doing a extensive check on their previous work.

I hope people don't take this the wrong way but I think we can be sharply critical of Joey's business acumen

Some entrepreneurial aspects he was clearly good at.

e.g the website and the e-commerce aspect. That was delivering him a nice pipeline as the economy picked up. Also people liked Joey. That helps.

I think his operational focus was poor. I get the feeling he was happy to have his production an hour down the road and leave all that with Chase. Except that it was costing him money and some bad results.

Maybe all this kind of worked in the recession but then he started to get way more business volume.

This is a common time for entrepreneurs to start looking at their business systems and I think Joey was doing that. He already muscled DK out of the business. He knew he had significant financial and operational issues in production with MSM/Chase

I think also he now had a decent amount of $$ behind him, and sales orders coming in so he had the chance to restructure instead of relying on effectively one freelancer.

So this is all fine. All business people learn as they go. But I think Feb 2010 Joey was a lot more savvy than Joey when he met Chase.

 

[Karinna]

Surely Joey wouldn’t of just gone into business with him without checking out his CV?

Chase already had a shady history so Joey surely couldn’t of been blind to that from the off as nobody goes into business with somebody without doing a extensive check on their previous work.

Sometimes people can just be too trusting IMO.
I would like to know more about the dynamic between JM & CM initially?
At a time when JM was growing and establishing his business, and perhaps CM made Joey a deal too good to refuse and got sucked into CM's vortex.?

 

[mrjitty]

Sometimes people can just be too trusting IMO.
I would like to know more about the dynamic between JM & CM initially?
At a time when JM was growing and establishing his business, and perhaps CM made Joey a deal too good to refuse and got sucked into CM's vortex.?

One way these people suck you in is over money

Once Chase owed Joey so much money, the problem becomes Joeys

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Surely Joey wouldn’t of just gone into business with him without checking out his CV?

Chase already had a shady history so Joey surely couldn’t of been blind to that from the off as nobody goes into business with somebody without doing a extensive check on their previous work.

I really dont think Joey checked out anything about CM. He took his word at face value. Often honest induviduals mistakenly think everyone else is honest like them.

I think he bought his gift of gab totally.

Joey isn't the only business owner by far to be so trusting unwisely, and naively when giving others a chance who did not appreciate it.

Joey strikes me as a very good, kind hearted person who sees the best in everyone even dismissing the negative

I think Joey's inner make up was all about helping others.

He may have even thought if he treated CM well, fairly, and with respect, he could change CM into becoming a decent human being too.

The true crime channels are filled with murder cases where very kind, and caring people were murdered by the very someone who they had helped the most.

Imo, none of this was Joey's fault. He is just another victim who did the right thing by their murderer, and was murdered because of those kind deeds who were finally going to cease.

 

[Karinna]

One way these people suck you in is over money

Once Chase owed Joey so much money, the problem becomes Joeys

And i think in Joey attempting to rectify that problem it cost Joey and his family their life, IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I really dont think Joey checked out anything about CM. He took his word at face value. Often honest induviduals mistakenly think everyone else is honest like them.

I think he bought his gift of gab totally.

Joey isn't the only business owner by far to be so trusting unwisely, and naively when giving others a chance who did not appreciate it.

Joey strikes me a very good person who sees the best in everyone even dismissing the negative

I think Joey's inner make up was all about helping others.

He may have even thought if he treated CM well, fairly, and with respect, he could change CM into becoming a decent human being too.

The true crime channels are filled with murder cases where very kind, and caring people were murdered by someone who they had helped the most.

Imo, none of this was Joey's fault. He is just another victim who did the right thing by their murderer, and was murdered because of those kind deeds were finally going to cease.

Abusers like Chase are very good at zeroing in on people's weaknesses. This was my personal experience with a sociopath

They destroy their victims self confidence over time and seek to make them more dependent by damaging other relationships.

I am sure Joey spent a lot of time trying to avoid conflict with Chase and avoiding angering him.

 

[missy1974]

I really wish we had more of Joey's emails... from before Feb 1st. I just can't see that email being the only one that had their 'totals'. The Provecho fountain was almost 2 years previous to the murders, the chargeback was about a 1 1/2 years before Feb 2010, so it was not anything new, and I don't see it being part of the motive.

I can see why the defense wants it in, the pro's have said it was money "owed" by Chase, but with no explanation of why or how that came to be, or even when that happened. The pro's have said that things had changed 'recently', that Chase wasn't showing up for work, that Chase owed Joey money, that Joey was going to fire Chase, etc. The Provecho 19K was not 'recent' at all. The running tab doesn't seem to be recent either, it seems they had been doing that since at least the beginning of 2009.

 

[missy1974]

@Mica said:
Somebody was in Joey’s computer. The passwords to his accounts were posted online.

Thanks Mica, that's what I recall from early on as well, but wasn't sure. Didn't he email them to himself or something like that?(would like to know which email he emailed them to) I thought Susan had said in her first testimony that she was cleaning and Mikey was on the computers and looking through papers and stuff... but unfortunately, L&C didn't upload all of her testimony. (It could have also been in Dugal's testimony ... that he was told that)

I noticed that the email that was sent to Chase with the financial info was sent from a yahoo email... Joey had emails everywhere LOL

 

[dlk1949]

IMO, a person with a possible addiction to alcohol, gambling or whatever, usually finds the addiction worsening over time - a downward spiral.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I hope people don't take this the wrong way but I think we can be sharply critical of Joey's business acumen

Some entrepreneurial aspects he was clearly good at.

e.g the website and the e-commerce aspect. That was delivering him a nice pipeline as the economy picked up. Also people liked Joey. That helps.

I think his operational focus was poor. I get the feeling he was happy to have his production an hour down the road and leave all that with Chase. Except that it was costing him money and some bad results.

Maybe all this kind of worked in the recession but then he started to get way more business volume.

This is a common time for entrepreneurs to start looking at their business systems and I think Joey was doing that. He already muscled DK out of the business. He knew he had significant financial and operational issues in production with MSM/Chase

I think also he now had a decent amount of $$ behind him, and sales orders coming in so he had the chance to restructure instead of relying on effectively one freelancer.

So this is all fine. All business people learn as they go. But I think Feb 2010 Joey was a lot more savvy than Joey when he met Chase.

Ita! Entrepreneurs are often dreamers. They have long dreamed of having a successful business, but when it comes true, often they are not that savvy on how to implement everything.

I think Joey relied heavily on CM at first.

But like you have posted they learn as they go along.

Imo, in the end Joey finally knew what would make his company have a successful future. By then he knew CM had become far more of a monetary liability burden for him than an asset.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

I really wish we had more of Joey's emails... from before Feb 1st. I just can't see that email being the only one that had their 'totals'. The Provecho fountain was almost 2 years previous to the murders, the chargeback was about a 1 1/2 years before Feb 2010, so it was not anything new, and I don't see it being part of the motive.

I can see why the defense wants it in, the pro's have said it was money "owed" by Chase, but with no explanation of why or how that came to be, or even when that happened. The pro's have said that things had changed 'recently', that Chase wasn't showing up for work, that Chase owed Joey money, that Joey was going to fire Chase, etc. The Provecho 19K was not 'recent' at all. The running tab doesn't seem to be recent either, it seems they had been doing that since at least the beginning of 2009.

But do you at accept that Chase did owe Joey the 19K and he had received the money and Maline sought to deceive the Court as to that fact?

 

[mrjitty]

IMO, a person with a possible addiction to alcohol, gambling or whatever, usually finds the addiction worsening over time - a downward spiral.

That's why I think a cut off of the cash spigot sparked the murder

I suspect Joey was going to withhold the 26K from SA and PM which brings the debt down to 20K approx

Chase murdered him so he could cash more cheques - he needed money right away