Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[crazychris]

I have a pathologist friend. It takes a certain kind of person to be one - they see the most grim and heartbreaking cases. They have a certain switch off mechanism ingrained into them. I have great admiration for them and all they are able to do.

Me too. Bad enough to have to deal with a body recently deceased from natural causes but they have to be prepared for accident and murder victims too. Very horrific sights that I sure couldn't handle.

 

[bos]

No you can't register the death with an interim death certificate. What they'll get today or tomorrow probably is a "Fact Of Death" certificate saying that investigations in to the cause of death are continuing, from a coroner's assistant. That suffices for Probate if you want to start that and to arrange the funeral once they release the body but you've to wait for the full death certificate before you can register the death. They'd need the Coroner's permission for cremation too. That's what happened when our daughter died anyway. We brought wife's sister and niece here from Philippines too to comfort us and the British Embassy in Manila needed the FOD certificate when we applied for their visas. Coroner's staff are very good and help you and advise you a lot.

Thank you for correcting me, it’s important to try and be accurate.

Despite having lived in England for over 20 years, any experience with sudden,unexplained death that I have had has been under the Scottish system where things are done on behalf of the Procurator Fiscal.

Whatever the differences in the systems, it is a process keeps you suspended in unenviable limbo even when you understand why.

 

[Skigh]

I was fairly certain before from comparing his legs and stance, from some online photos of him, to the Spidercam man. But it wasn’t until watching him entering the courtroom, walking, albeit for a short distance, seeing his gait. I just knew it was him.[/

What is your opinion about the 4 people seen in the Cross video?

 

[crazychris]

Thank you for correcting me, it’s important to try and be accurate.

Despite having lived in England for over 20 years, any experience with sudden,unexplained death that I have had has been under the Scottish system where things are done on behalf of the Procurator Fiscal.

Whatever the differences in the systems, it is a process keeps you suspended in unenviable limbo even when you understand why.

No problem. Most people don't know how it works unless they've lost someone and it's been a Coroner's enquiry. Could be weeks before her body is released. As you say, any person charged in connection with her death can ask for a second post mortem if they want to challenge the cause of death.

 

[Joelle88]

@Skigh - What is your opinion about the 4 people seen in the Cross video?

I can’t any similarities on the Oak Road cctv men with Pawel.
Some locals I know are adamant he is the one wearing the grey joggers.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

That interaction with GB could have been more of an altercation. Who’s to say they haven’t had a fall out over her nearly getting run over by him.... Nobody really stops to take home drunk people. If we did we’d be stopping to help hookers every i night you drive through hull. I’d say she fell or there was an argument as she stepped out in front of GB.
And then of course , it’s PR to the rescue to help her when she’s just had an incident .

Not having been there and LE not releasing information other than GB was very helpful, I am inclined to say interaction. It does not appear by anything I have seen that LS was a confrontational person. Now GB could be, we do not know but for some reason my gut feeling is he was a good samaritan.

 

[paddy40]

Is it possible Libby crossed the road to the bench dangerously ? That GB maybe nearly ran her over and that’s why he stopped ? Maybe he had to slam on and poor Libby in her already intoxicated/freezing state became further upset leading to the description of ‘distressed’ ? Maybe GB witnessed a near collision with someone else. Although I also agree with what Cherwell said about LE using the term as a pc way to describe an intoxicated vulnerable person.

So GB helped Libby to the bench to safety ? I know there was upset as to why an ambulance specifically wasn’t called, was Libby maybe slightly injured ? Perhaps I’m just looking too far into it and calling an ambulance would be standard for an intoxicated young girl who didn’t have a phone on her to phone friends for help under the supervision of GB.

I strongly suspect PR was in and out of his car a few times back and forth to the bench - watching Libby and/or trying to coax her. I think after her prolonged period in the freezing cold, being distressed (for whatever reason) & inability to think rationally as she normally would due to the alcohol, she either gave in to PR’s ‘kind’ offer of a lift home or was trying to walk away from his persistent bothering to another location ...

I still can’t see anything clearly on spider cam .. other than PR listening out, watching & waiting

Yeah agreed, but some of the spider cam footage seems to better than others. I’m sure I can see a bag being thrown in the back.
The only way he could have forced her into the car that way would be with a knife and his hands appear empty and there doesn’t appear to be any blood detected. Although if she fell , it would explain away any blood in his car and GB would only verify that for him

 

[JosieJo]

Some of the people who saw her get out of the taxi said she fell and was mumbling incoherently so must have been very drunk by this point... so it's not a great leap to presume she may have been stumbling or fell or disorientated when GB saw her ...also there was an early mention in press that GB may have had a passenger with him ..now if that had been a wife or female they could have also said stop see if shes ok

 

[JosieJo]

Yeah agreed, but some of the spider cam footage seems to better than others. I’m sure I can see a bag being thrown in the back.
The only way he could have forced her into the car that way would be with a knife and his hands appear empty and there doesn’t appear to be any blood detected. Although if she fell , it would explain away any blood in his car and GB would only verify that for him

I think it's more that she may have been indecisive and hesitant to get in and he coerced her .. that may account for the back and forth picture especially if drunk

 

[Ruthbullock]

If they can’t ask someone to visually ID, next stage is fingerprints before teeth. I wouldn’t read anything other than the obvious into why they used the latter ID rather than the first. Interestingly though these deteriorate rapidly in water from what I have read - although I know others have said different.

 

[jamjim]

Libby being distressed could have also been her vomiting etc.

 

[TheCasual]

We've been in a situation where we've had too much and our inhibitions and acted in a way we don't normal

 

[Plod]

I followed the river Hull all the way down from the park to the estuary yet again last night on maps ..
If Libby entered in the park (I do feel it’s more likely) I think it’s absolutely extraordinary and such a sad case of bad luck that no one spotted her - it runs right through the middle of Hull ;(

But on the other hand, it’s extremely good luck she was found before washed out to sea.

 

[Mollie123]

I'm no expert, but going by previous cases there are a few things off the top of my head that the post mortem might have shown which could indicate a non-natural death:

• She didn't drown (ie was already deceased when entered water)
• She had blunt force trauma injuries caused in life
• She had stab / gunshot / other obvious "murder" wounds
• She had a fractured hyoid bone (neck) which is a strong indicator of strangulation and not commonly done accidentally
• She had ligature marks on her neck
• She had other flesh or bone wounds
• She had traces of poisoning (though tox reports would not be back yet)

I'm sure others will have alternative ideas to add to this macabre list! I'm assuming some of those will be harder to ascertain given the length of time Libby was in water, but it's amazing how they can determine whether injuries were caused during life or after death.

I am hopeful that forensic ecology can determine which bits of water Libby has been in. For example there could be traces of mud/plants in her lungs or stomach which are only found near the park part of the river Hull.

Thank you

 

[paddy40]

.

Still all circumstantial though, unless they've got DNA from her body and can tell that injuries weren't accidental and led to her death. That's most likely as they've said it's a murder enquiry now.

I think it’s going to be hard to pin it on him.

 

[Catsarse]

We've been in a situation where we've had too much and our inhibitions and acted in a way we don't normal

Too true. There but for the grace of god and all that. Think most of us can say we’ve been in situations were we may have been compromised in safety-either by our own actions (drink/drugs etc), or a wrong turn when you’re on holiday for example.

Hate thinking this about murders by a stranger, just a few minutes difference either way and it may have meant the victim would’ve been safe

 

[PaddyOreally?]

That interaction with GB could have been more of an altercation. Who’s to say they haven’t had a fall out over her nearly getting run over by him.... Nobody really stops to take home drunk people. If we did we’d be stopping to help hookers every i night you drive through hull. I’d say she fell or there was an argument as she stepped out in front of GB.
And then of course , it’s PR to the rescue to help her when she’s just had an incident .

I was thinking along those lines but if pr saw her having an argument with someone that was trying to help her wouldn't that put him off? Because he might see her as an awkward target?

 

[TheCasual]

Too true. There but for the grace of god and all that. Think most of us can say we’ve been in situations were we may have been compromised in safety-either by our own actions (drink/drugs etc), or a wrong turn when you’re on holiday for example.

Hate thinking this about murders by a stranger, just a few minutes difference either way and it may have meant the victim would’ve been safe

Yeah if them coincidences go slightly different ly. Libby would probably been sat in a lecture today feeling sorry for herself after drinking to much over the weekend and no one would even know she was

 

[paddy40]

I was thinking along those lines but if pr saw her having an argument with someone that was trying to help her wouldn't that put him off? Because he might see her as an awkward target?

Yeah that is true. If she had turned a bit on GB it might have put him off. Having seen the footage of her going towards welly earlier on I wouldn’t be stopping a car for her though. Maybe I’m just not as nice as GB !?

 

[paddy40]

Do you think he'd searched " how best to dispose of a body" before or after she went missing?

Before ..... I think he’d have been fantasising about this for quite a while