Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[yakus1964]

I dont agree, because his double life shows....he is cunning, deceptive, manipulative, researches his crimes (breaking into empty homes of young women) and follows an aspiration to maximise his sadistic sexual urges. I think he aspired to be a very dark persona....but his sadistic urge was too impulsive on the night in question, not considering CCTV etc and a backup plan. If he was a silly boy, he'd likely of crumbled at the first round of questioning.

Good point - I'd been wondering how he knew which houses to burgle if he wanted dildos/sex toys/knickers etc. He mustn't have just picked a house at random and been lucky... He must've known which houses were occupied by young women.

Though it seems stupid that he'd hit houses in the local area and even on his own street... That must be playing with fire unless he was so confident he could get away with it?

 

[yakus1964]

From my readings I have found two different reports of screaming - one woman claiming she heard screams on her street at Heathcote Street, another claiming they heard screams coming from inside the park near the river bank.

As for the latter, do we know where this person was when they heard the screams? Did other people in the area hear the same screams too? If so it would be possible to draw up a rough triangulation to determine whereabouts LS may have met her end.

 

[gravyh]

I dont agree, because his double life shows....he is cunning, deceptive, manipulative, researches his crimes (breaking into empty homes of young women) and follows an aspiration to maximise his sadistic sexual urges. I think he aspired to be a very dark persona....but his sadistic urge was too impulsive on the night in question, not considering CCTV etc and a backup plan. If he was a silly boy, he'd likely of crumbled at the first round of questioning.

Yep, I agree 100%. I know a lot of people are thinking that PR is just a petty criminal and is not very (forensically) intelligent, but I'm not so sure. His crimes (voyeurism, masturbating in public, etc) are very frightening events for the victims and, particularly in the latter, are not just about self-pleasure but also about inflicting fear and pain upon the victim IMO. As for him being impulsive and leaving DNA evidence <modsnip - rumor> and potential CCTV evidence as mentioned at his court appearance, I think that's the very nature of his crimes - all part of the risk which adds to the pleasure of it.

Also, he's facing 12 charges, none of which he was on LE's radar for until Libby's disappearance. IMO there could be tonnes are crimes over the past few years that he hasn't been connected to or may not have been reported. Who knows what he has been up to.

He (if found guilty, of course) has a lot of crimes under his belt and I'm of the opinion that, if this is the case, there could be a very sinister, manipulative and cunning side to him, as you said. I do think he saw an opportunity in Libby unfortunately and got in over his head and ultimately this is his downfall.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

Yep, I agree 100%. I know a lot of people are thinking that PR is just a petty criminal and is not very (forensically) intelligent, but I'm not so sure. His crimes (voyeurism, masturbating in public, etc) are very frightening events for the victims and, particularly in the latter, are not just about self-pleasure but also about inflicting fear and pain upon the victim IMO. As for him being impulsive and leaving DNA evidence (was there something about him leaving semen in someone's bed or did I just make that up?) and potential CCTV evidence as mentioned at his court appearance, I think that's the very nature of his crimes - all part of the risk which adds to the pleasure of it.

Also, he's facing 12 charges, none of which he was on LE's radar for until Libby's disappearance. IMO there could be tonnes are crimes over the past few years that he hasn't been connected to or may not have been reported. Who knows what he has been up to.

He (if found guilty, of course) has a lot of crimes under his belt and I'm of the opinion that, if this is the case, there could be a very sinister, manipulative and cunning side to him, as you said. I do think he saw an opportunity in Libby unfortunately and got in over his head and ultimately this is his downfall.

I agree I think he has a sordid past and is highly likely to be on the psychopath scale.
I would be interested in his childhood conduct, relationships, and I suspect he had difficulties with sexual relations (controlled erection ect). He may have used viagra or similar to carry out his episodic flashing.
I think he was a very insecure man, who adopted a superiority complex (superego, lacking fear or reprimand) born from a childhood inferiority complex. I suspect he had a body confidence complex also, going off photos he took of himself, expressions, and central weight fluctuations.

I would like to go off the psychoanalytical topic and raise a question about the - Humber bridge past suicides or accidents. With reference to how far the bodies travelled over time, I read last night of one lady (May she rest in peace) who was found 3 months later before the Estuary. And another found in the opposite direction months later (this made better sense when someone here earlier, explained the tidal dynamics). My point is to try to figure out if the typical distance from a point of entry may be scalable? Particularly looking at any data on the approx 200 cases of persons who entered the Humber to date.

 

[Deckard]

I've been thinking about the disparity in timings from the 12:30am sighting of running man "alone, not looking back" and the later Croda CCTV "possible witnesses".

What if PR gets back to his Astra on Oak Rd. No car key.

Fallen from a pocket in his loose shorts whilst they were pulled lower/in a struggle? Possibly wastes time searching for it in the park before making his way to Raglan St to get his wife's/spare key.

Makes his way on foot back to the playing fields possibly with a torch (fishermen have torches?) to search for the incriminating original car key.

All this takes time hence the focussing of LE on the Croda CCTV and the extensive strimming of the park for an item that will not be destroyed by a powerstrimmer.

Also reinforces my belief that the Haworth CCTV footage release was OKed by LE possibly to put pressure on PR's wife as she may be a key witness to his comings and goings that night.

Any locals estimate the time needed for PR to do this on foot?

 

[lo so]

Back to GB again. I know people say he wouldn't have stopped for someone who was drunk but I'm not so confident. Libby was reported as so drunk that she was sent home in a taxi -she could have developed alcohol poisoning or more likely (given the weather) she could have been in early stages of hypothermia, both having similar symptoms. If you saw a young woman (dressed for clubbing) staggering around the street on their own, or even sitting at a bus stop in ice cold weather you may be tempted to stop and ask if they were ok or needed help - especially if you have family or friends of a similar age. We know nothing about GB -he could have granddaughters/daughters/sisters of a similar age.

She may have been nowhere near the bench at this stage but decided to go there to wait in peace and avoid having "strange" people talking to her. It's set back off the road so fewer people would see her but she could still see if someone she knew went past. Add another 20 minutes of sitting/staggering in the cold with no sign of any friends she may have accepted the offer of a warm car to sit in for a while when offered by a "harmless" looking, friendly guy.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

I've been thinking about the disparity in timings from the 12:30am sighting of running man "alone, not looking back" and the later Croda CCTV "possible witnesses".

What if PR gets back to his Astra on Oak Rd. No car key.

Fallen from a pocket in his loose shorts whilst they were pulled lower/in a struggle? Possibly wastes time searching for it in the park before making his way to Raglan St to get his wife's/spare key.

Makes his way on foot back to the playing fields possibly with a torch (fishermen have torches?) to search for the incriminating original car key.

All this takes time hence the focussing of LE on the Croda CCTV and the extensive strimming of the park for an item that will not be destroyed by a powerstrimmer.

Also reinforces my belief that the Haworth CCTV footage release was OKed by LE possibly to put pressure on PR's wife as she may be a key witness to his comings and goings that night.

Any locals estimate the time needed for PR to do this on foot?

I like your theory and am in admiration of your thinking. However I don't believe she was killed in the park/ playing fields as yet, so I am biased in my rejection of the idea.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

Back to GB again. I know people say he wouldn't have stopped for someone who was drunk but I'm not so confident. Libby was reported as so drunk that she was sent home in a taxi -she could have developed alcohol poisoning or more likely (given the weather) she could have been in early stages of hypothermia, both having similar symptoms. If you saw a young woman (dressed for clubbing) staggering around the street on their own, or even sitting at a bus stop in ice cold weather you may be tempted to stop and ask if they were ok or needed help - especially if you have family or friends of a similar age. We know nothing about GB -he could have granddaughters/daughters/sisters of a similar age.

She may have been nowhere near the bench at this stage but decided to go there to wait in peace and avoid having "strange" people talking to her. It's set back off the road so fewer people would see her but she could still see if someone she knew went past. Add another 20 minutes of sitting/staggering in the cold with no sign of any friends she may have accepted the offer of a warm car to sit in for a while when offered by a "harmless" looking, friendly guy.

This is similar to my thoughts definitely. I think that any reference to her ever needing medical assistance (the ambulance quotes) were more likely due to the accumulative factors of her apparent lack of awareness, environment (risk of hypothermia), vulnerability (young, alone, reduced LOC and risk of dangerous people around). All equating to her needing resourceful support, just like the homeless need in freezing temperatures alone.

 

[lo so]

...
Also the comments about PR and Libby perhaps being spotted on CCTV entering the park and only PR being seen leaving...this was one of my first thoughts around the time spidercam was released and LE were searching the park, I think I may have even wrote it on my first post here. I think this is a really interesting point and would explain why LE arrested PR and are so focused on the park. I'm not sure why else they'd be so focused on the park, unless it was CCTV that lead them there (I'm not going to bring up the dreaded phone ping speculation for the six millionth time, don't worry folks)

Playing devil's advocate, what if LE have footage of PR and Libby leaving the park area but PR claimed she had run off in the park after "consensual" sex.

 

[lo so]

My worst fear is that he's raped someone in similar circumstances before who, for whatever reason, felt they couldn't report it and are now left with the addition pain of thinking they could have done something to prevent this (they couldn't have) and the additional fear of what could else have happened to them.

 

[Cherwell]

From my readings I have found two different reports of screaming - one woman claiming she heard screams on her street at Heathcote Street, another claiming they heard screams coming from inside the park near the river bank.

As for the latter, do we know where this person was when they heard the screams? Did other people in the area hear the same screams too? If so it would be possible to draw up a rough triangulation to determine whereabouts LS may have met her end.

No, we don't know where the park scream witness was, except that he was in his house, so we can deduce that it's in one of the streets adjoining the park.
We only know about this because he spoke to the press. It's entirely possible that there were other ear witnesses who did not speak to the media, only to the police.

 

[Loobyloo]

So the address thing leads me to believe there must be evidence of Libby's address on his sat nav. Why bother mentioning it otherwise?

Perhaps he already had her address in his phone/satnav because he was planning to target that house? He'd been 'performing' in her street a few days beforehand, hadn't he? He could have recognised Libby as one of the occupants.

That might explain why he felt the need to add this detail to the story he told his sister.

(Edited to add 'satnav')

 

[Enquirer-2019]

Playing devil's advocate, what if LE have footage of PR and Libby leaving the park area but PR claimed she had run off in the park after "consensual" sex.

I am wondering why....so many people are certain/ or so sure, that she was ever in the park? Because if the police were certain of that and certain she did not leave (prior to her body being found)....wouldn't they have focused a river task force and many more resources on river searches, as opposed to a drone and the odd boat with a couple of men? I am asking generally speaking, because the missing pieces we have, we can only look at what would LE do if they knew for sure.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

My worst fear is that he's raped someone in similar circumstances before who, for whatever reason, felt they couldn't report it and are now left with the addition pain of thinking they could have done something to prevent this (they couldn't have) and the additional fear of what could else have happened to them.

I think that could be highly probable, or a similar sexually motivated assault.

 

[yakus1964]

I am wondering why....so many people are certain/ or so sure, that she was ever in the park? Because if the police were certain of that and certain she did not leave (prior to her body being found)....wouldn't they have focused a river task force and many more resources on river searches, as opposed to a drone and the odd boat with a couple of men? I am asking generally speaking, because the missing pieces we have, we can only look at what would LE do if they knew for sure.

Because of the park’s proximity to the River Hull and her body being found in the Humber.

How else would it have gotten there?

Also the park is a good, dark, secluded place for him to have his way with her.

The real question that LE will need to determine is whether or not he planned to kill her or whether he only killed her because she fought back.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

No, we don't know where the park scream witness was, except that he was in his house, so we can deduce that it's in one of the streets adjoining the park.
We only know about this because he spoke to the press. It's entirely possible that there were other ear witnesses who did not speak to the media, only to the police.

This is the one factor that ever made me link the park, that witness statement. The thing that pulls me away, is I never considered it a location he would choose, I presumed he'd go further afield and away from any potential witnesses on a Friday night. I presumed it more likely in his car down a back end street, off the beaten track. Then to a place, he could remove the evidence.

Random mention - The phone ping, I wondered if it could have been before he saw Libby

 

[Enquirer-2019]

Because of the park’s proximity to the River Hull and her body being found in the Humber.

How else would it have gotten there?

Also the park is a good, dark, secluded place for him to have his way with her.

The real question that LE will need to determine is whether or not he planned to kill her or whether he only killed her because she fought back.

I see your points, and all similar raised many times.
However -
There are other more secluded locations along the river Hull, less vast than the park.
The body could have easily have ended up at the Estuary if it was placed in closer to the Humber itself, or further up the River Hull. This is why I mentioned earlier, the 200 deaths in the Humber and where the bodies (of the few that were ) were found.

I don't think whether she fought back or not is relevant to a conviction for murder, because IMO only I would imagine if someone trying to attack/rape/fear of being hurt/killed....we would all try to fend them off, one way or another (respectfully considering some like myself would likely freeze in fear initially)

 

[Officer Dibble]

They had two young children- it’s the family car. Would imagine they store the buggy in the boot of the car when going out and his wife has access To it- whether she drives or not.

Don't forget the early report by the neighbour that he didn't know which man owned the car (PR's car)

 

[Officer Dibble]

Do you think PR had a bike stashed there ? That would show a lot of foreword planning . I do agree that the bike is very suspicious though. Maybe suspicious cos he’s dealing and doesn’t want to come forward ? Could cycle to pick up drugs and quickly turn back around

so is he caught on cctv by LE at a later time or date moving the car from the park area then?

 

[Katykins]

I see your points, and all similar raised many times.
However -
There are other more secluded locations along the river Hull, less vast than the park.
The body could have easily have ended up at the Estuary if it was placed in closer to the Humber itself, or further up the River Hull. This is why I mentioned earlier, the 200 deaths in the Humber and where the bodies (of the few that were ) were found.

I don't think whether she fought back or not is relevant to a conviction for murder, because IMO only I would imagine if someone trying to attack/rape/fear of being hurt/killed....we would all try to fend them off, one way or another (respectfully considering some like myself would likely freeze in fear initially)

Good points. But with the park, I think it’s possible that his ego/other tendencies may have led him to believe that because she got in the car it meant she wanted something else. In no way suggesting she did of course, but he may have thought that due to a high opinion of himself. And the fact that recently, many women had possibly rejected him/screamed at him when he was flashing etc. That also could have made him angry and motivated to get what he wanted by any means. So maybe he was thinking something was going to happen hence going to the nearest quiet spot near her house. If that makes sense.

I hate that I keep referring to LS as “she” but using her name when theorising along these lines feels horrible.