TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

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booghawk said:
Chins are hard to depict in recons sometimes because the artist has to compensate for the post mortem slack jaw. If you look at a lot of recons beside the actual MP after identification, the chins are frequently off.
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Right, but I wasn't just referring to the recon, I was basing my comparison in chins from her post mortem photo where it's the real WCJD in the photo, not the recon.
 
Nell1212 said:
Was the bag the waitress saw her carrying ever found? I apologize if I missed this information in the thread. It's possible that the pantyhose were hers, but kept in her bag rather than worn under her jeans. If the bag was found, the other items could suggest if the pantyhose were hers (like a skirt or a dress she would've worn them under.)
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Do you have the source where it says she had a bag with her or that the waitress said she had a bag with her and link it? I've never come across that and i've always wondered about if she had a bag.
 
detective24-7 said:
Right, but I wasn't just referring to the recon, I was basing my comparison in chins from her post mortem photo where it's the real WCJD in the photo, not the recon.
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Yes, but the post mortem is where the slack jaw is the problem. Carl compensated for that in his recon, but it's hard to know where exactly the jaw sits in life.
 
detective24-7 said:
Do you have the source where it says she had a bag with her or that the waitress said she had a bag with her and link it? I've never come across that and i've always wondered about if she had a bag.
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I don't, but I am quite certain I read it in earlier posts on this thread.
 
booghawk said:
Yes, but the post mortem is where the slack jaw is the problem. Carl compensated for that in his recon, but it's hard to know where exactly the jaw sits in life.
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I agree. And the chin's appearance is also affected by how the person carries their head. Some people tuck their chin down, others push their jaw forward or tip their head back. I've only seen a couple of cases where the reconstruction or artist's drawing depicted the chin with complete accuracy.
 
carbuff said:
I agree. And the chin's appearance is also affected by how the person carries their head. Some people tuck their chin down, others push their jaw forward or tip their head back. I've only seen a couple of cases where the reconstruction or artist's drawing depicted the chin with complete accuracy.
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You are so right. A perfect example is Marcia, our “Buckskin girl”. That beautiful, vibrant girl looked nothing like her post mortem. CarlK did an amazing job with his rendering of her. Marcia’s and WCJD’s post mortem’s haunt me. Both suffered horrible deaths, and I pray that the caring and love that so many strangers here have shared, somehow reaches them.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
rosesfromangels said:
You are so right. A perfect example is Marcia, our “Buckskin girl”. That beautiful, vibrant girl looked nothing like her post mortem. CarlK did an amazing job with his rendering of her. Marcia’s and WCJD’s post mortem’s haunt me. Both suffered horrible deaths, and I pray that the caring and love that so many strangers here have shared, somehow reaches them.

Amateur opinion and speculation
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It looked a lot like her looking at her features of the space between her eyes, mouth, nose, forehead, etc.
 
I have never seen a mention of her having any type of bag or purse with her. Only descriptions of clothing. That is something I find strange. I know there are girls who don't carry purses but you would think a girl who was wearing heels would be the type of girl to carry a purse. What we know from the police is that she asked the waitress for directions. They have never said if she asked for anything else and there is no mention of her buying anything at either place she stopped. Its possible that information wasn't released.
 
daisy6441 said:
I have never seen a mention of her having any type of bag or purse with her. Only descriptions of clothing. That is something I find strange. I know there are girls who don't carry purses but you would think a girl who was wearing heels would be the type of girl to carry a purse. What we know from the police is that she asked the waitress for directions. They have never said if she asked for anything else and there is no mention of her buying anything at either place she stopped. Its possible that information wasn't released.
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That's a good callout Daisy. Purses were always carried in that era, and ranged from a boho-hippie sack to leather tooled to everything in between - but everyone carried them. The Perp most likely took it and threw it out elsewhere so that her identity couldn't easily be obtained...it worked.

Perhaps it would be worthy to try the needle in haystack of attempting to figure out how to find reports of found purses along the highway within 100 miles each way of where she was found. Probably an impossible task.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
daisy6441 said:
I have never seen a mention of her having any type of bag or purse with her. Only descriptions of clothing. That is something I find strange. I know there are girls who don't carry purses but you would think a girl who was wearing heels would be the type of girl to carry a purse. What we know from the police is that she asked the waitress for directions. They have never said if she asked for anything else and there is no mention of her buying anything at either place she stopped. Its possible that information wasn't released.
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I find that strange as well. Given her age range, it seems likely she would have a purse; especially if it were true she were meeting up with someone - you would want that to carry things to freshen up or to keep things in there to feel "prepared." The more I have been thinking about it lately, for some reason I don't think everything or all information on this case is being shared or updated. I don't know if it's intentional or not.
 
rosesfromangels said:
That's a good callout Daisy. Purses were always carried in that era, and ranged from a boho-hippie sack to leather tooled to everything in between - but everyone carried them. The Perp most likely took it and threw it out elsewhere so that her identity couldn't easily be obtained...it worked.

Perhaps it would be worthy to try the needle in haystack of attempting to figure out how to find reports of found purses along the highway within 100 miles each way of where she was found. Probably an impossible task.

Amateur opinion and speculation
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detective24-7 said:
I find that strange as well. Given her age range, it seems likely she would have a purse; especially if it were true she were meeting up with someone - you would want that to carry things to freshen up or to keep things in there to feel "prepared." The more I have been thinking about it lately, for some reason I don't think everything or all information on this case is being shared or updated. I don't know if it's intentional or not.
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If she was on the younger end of the age estimation its possible she wouldn't have any ID anyway. Not everyone got their driver's licence at 16 either. I remember when our school first started giving us ID cards but my daughters go there now and don't have them. Its also possible she dropped out of school and wouldn't carry an ID around if she didn't need it anymore. I'm not sure that finding a bag would have lead them anywhere but it still makes me wonder that she wasn't carrying one. My thought was that if she was hitchhiking she wouldn't have left it with a stranger when she went in to ask for directions. However, if she knew the person she might leave it in the car while she went inside the gas station.
The car she first got out of was seen and described to police but as far as we know it wasn't found. Honestly, the driver could have been anyone traveling on hwy 45. Its the main route from Dallas to Galveston. They could have just as easily been a local. I'm not sure how big it was back then but the college would bring in people from other parts of the state and probably the country. The place where she was found is pretty isolated (as isolated as a heavily used highway can be). There aren't any houses or buildings to be seen in that area. I'm not sure if there are pictures from that time but the widening of the highway changed the layout. She was found north of Huntsville so she was even farther away from where she said she was going. I read somewhere that the gas station owner said she walked away from there. That doesn't mean the driver of the car didn't pick her back up later.
Something else I wondered was if there were any reports of people leaving hotel rooms suddenly in the night. The killer might have stopped to spend the night but decided to flee after the murder.
 
Jdart14 said:
....on my mind today. Hope everyone is doing well.
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Yes, I think about this case and it really tugs at my heart. She looks so very young to me...twelve to fourteen is my guess. The brutality of the attack, the specific manner of the sexual assault, and the vicious beating and bite speak to animalistic rage.

Her PM haunts me, as the suffering of her last moments on earth are so evident.

I pray her DNA studies lead to answers, and this child can be identified. So horrific, so heartbreaking.
 
Was it ever mentioned why she went into the diner? Did the waitress say if she ate, to use the restroom, or just to sit down?
And how long was she there for?
 
Sweetluv said:
Was it ever mentioned why she went into the diner? Did the waitress say if she ate, to use the restroom, or just to sit down?
And how long was she there for?
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From what I've read, she went in to get directions to the Ellis Prison Unit as a result of getting lost from the previous place she was seen getting directions. I haven't read or come across anything saying if she did more while she was there (eat, sit, chat, restroom) or long her stop there was but I would like to know that as well. It seemed she was in hurry so I do think she only stopped for directions and nothing else.
 
Paul B. said:
Any of WCJD's friends from school, Girl Scouts (if she was a Scout) etc etc will be in their mid-fifties by now.
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Which would make her parents and other relatives even older - that's what worries me. The chance we have of a family member coming forward, recognizing her, us finding them, etc is dwindling with time just by them getting older and natural aging increasing the chance of them passing away and losing a possible link of identifying her. Staying positive and optimistic though :)
 
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