CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

Dateline had the Heather Bogle case tonight.

In that one, the investigation was broken wide open, thanks to location data on her phone.

They were able to pinpoint her last known cell phone location, using satellite data.

Now we know that PF had no idea how pings work, but I’ll also be willing to bet that he had some apps on his phone that were tracking his movements.

If he didn’t, Kelsey very well might have.

That type of information is better than cell tower data, as it is far more accurate.

Facebook and Google track you, unless you have your location set to off.

In one of the search warrants, law enforcement requested this data from Facebook.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm so amazed that depression would be a flag in a custody case as I doubt there are many parents who haven't experienced a period of depression and/or anxiety.

I'll go back and read but I thought KB spent only a day or two at the treatment center where she probably learned some basic techniques for self-healing and perhaps some tips on dealing with a manipulator.

I hope the court reports show files from the center and notes from the professionals there.

That might be our best window into the soul of the cowboy. MOO

I believe the testimony in preliminary hearing was that KB was seeking treatment for extreme fatigue, and told her employer the same when she took time off work to travel to clinic located in CA. A single mum, commuting 200 miles daily, can explain a lot....

 

[MassGuy]

I believe the testimony in preliminary hearing was that KB was seeking treatment for extreme fatigue, and told her employer the same when she took time off work to travel to clinic located in CA. A single mum, commuting 200 miles daily, can explain a lot....

So does being in a relationship with PF.

 

[MemPat]

Of course, we know that what DHS ultimately concluded was that Baby K. was better off with KB's parents in ID than with SF in CO at the ranchette, where she spent a considerable amount of her young life. There are likely some inferences that can be drawn from that.

But I know what you mean, and I agree that it will be interesting to see what DHS concluded r/t PF's allegations. These were not substantiated, of course.

It will be interesting to learn some day what PF's story was to DHS.

I suspect the whole genesis of his idea to make a false allegation to DHS was in that delivery room, when the hospital staff contacted DHS d/t his frightening outburst. He may have gotten the idea to call DHS himself to make an allegation on the basis of that experience and whatever ensued as a result.

JMO.

Yes, I would expect an interview with Mama to be in those files since the baby would have come to live in her home if PF got custody.

This may be among the topics she avoided by taking the 5th but could be explored at trial. MOO

 

[MemPat]

Yes, I would expect an interview with Mama to be in those files since the baby would have come to live in her home if PF got custody.

This may be among the topics she avoided by taking the 5th but could be explored at trial. MOO

Not sleuthing Mama but who better to back him up in a faux child abuse story?

 

[MassGuy]

Not sleuthing Mama but who better to back him up in a faux child abuse story?

Exactly.

That document references interviews with the defendant, and “witnesses.”

It stands to reason that those witnesses would be people who interacted with Kelsey and/or the baby.

That’s a relatively small circle, so his family would be on that list.

 

[Seattle1]

The document was filed by the prosecution on March 20, 2019.

We don’t know when the DHS investigation occurred.

As PF began soliciting Kelsey’s murder around September, it stands to reason that DHS was involved prior to that.

Prosecutors want a judge to bar the public release of Teller County Department of Human Services records involving interviews with a Florissant rancher accused of killing his fiancee and burning her body. […]

They include “extensive interviews documenting statements made by the defendant and witnesses in this case,” Reed said.

The nature of the statements isn’t clear, but court testimony has revealed that Frazee claimed that Berreth abused their toddler daughter.

Such an allegation would trigger an investigation by child protective authorities, who investigate in secret and do not publicly discuss their work.

“The people respectfully request disclosure of these records to the defendant in the above-referenced case, subject to a protective order prohibiting dissemination to any person outside of the defendant’s legal defense team,” Reed wrote in her motion.

…... Court records show no evidence that child protective authorities pursued action against either Frazee or Berreth. bbm

Prosecutors in Kelsey Berreth case want DHS records kept secret

ETA: I recall a tweet by Sam Kraemer indicating a custody type document dated August was located in the SF residence. It follows this could be the time frame, and that allegations were unfounded (CPS pursued no action). MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Prosecutors want a judge to bar the public release of Teller County Department of Human Services records involving interviews with a Florissant rancher accused of killing his fiancee and burning her body. […]

They include “extensive interviews documenting statements made by the defendant and witnesses in this case,” Reed said.

The nature of the statements isn’t clear, but court testimony has revealed that Frazee claimed that Berreth abused their toddler daughter.

Such an allegation would trigger an investigation by child protective authorities, who investigate in secret and do not publicly discuss their work.

“The people respectfully request disclosure of these records to the defendant in the above-referenced case, subject to a protective order prohibiting dissemination to any person outside of the defendant’s legal defense team,” Reed wrote in her motion.

…... Court records show no evidence that child protective authorities pursued action against either Frazee or Berreth. bbm

Prosecutors in Kelsey Berreth case want DHS records kept secret

ETA: I recall a tweet by Sam Kraemer indicating a custody type document dated August was located in the SF residence. It follows this could be the time frame, and that allegations were unfounded (CPS pursued no action). MOO

The closer to August/September that the DHS investigation was concluded, the worse this looks for PF.

I think the news today, makes the motive being related to custody, solid as all hell.

If lying to DHS doesn’t work, murder is the solution.

His anyways.

This was a huge missing piece.

 

[ilovechili]

The document was filed by the prosecution on March 20, 2019.

We don’t know when the DHS investigation occurred.

As PF began soliciting Kelsey’s murder around September, it stands to reason that DHS was involved prior to that.

I was simply going by what was stated as March by the original poster was a fact. If it is, that is the month KK said their relationship "started". Well it was what she said after she lied at first to LE.

imvho.

 

[katydid23]

I believe we've been down this road.

What parent cannot relate to what was previously recounted by KB.

A toddler with an alleged bump does not always constitute actionable "child abuse."

A toddler allegedly touching a curling iron (hand burn) does not always constitute actionable "child abuse."

It can look good on paper for the defendant, until it's explained by investigator.

It's like a page out of Kramer vs Kramer (Billy falls on play ground).

MOO

Embarrassingly, my 3 yr old daughter was burned by my nieces hair straightener —-thank goodness I was not in the middle of a custody battle.

Both my kids had bruises as toddlers. My son loved to run as fast as he could but he wasn’t too good at stopping safely

One of the sickest ways thst people try to gain full custody is by falsely accusing the other of physical or sexual abuse. It is a disgusting action and doesn’t surprise me that PF likely did that too

 

[MsBetsy]

Embarrassingly, my 3 yr old daughter was burned by my nieces hair straightener —-thank goodness I was not in the middle of a custody battle.

Both my kids had bruises as toddlers. My son loved to run as fast as he could but he wasn’t too good at stopping safely

One of the sickest ways thst people try to gain full custody is by falsely accusing the other of physical or sexual abuse. It is a disgusting action and doesn’t surprise me that PF likely did that too

It doesn't surprise me either that PF would use Social Services as a means to build his "case" against Kelsey in custody court.
It's a common move that an arrogant, self centered parent would make. Only someone who feels entitled would do such a thing with absolutely no concern for wasting Social Services valuable time and money.
After all, he did say he should have "killed" the woman who reported him before.
But if it works for him it's perfectly justifiable. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

The closer to August/September that the DHS investigation was concluded, the worse this looks for PF.

I think the news today, makes the motive being related to custody, solid as all hell.

If lying to DHS doesn’t work, murder is the solution.

His anyways.

This was a huge missing piece.

Yes, and I bet Patrick thought he was pretty smart at the time, placing a call to SS.
Just one more piece of evidence to prove Kelsey was an "unfit parent."

But what ignorant people don't realize, is that it actually works against you when the accusation proves to be unfounded.
Just one more nail in Patrick's coffin. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, and I bet Patrick thought he was pretty smart at the time, placing a call to SS.
Just one more piece of evidence to prove Kelsey was an "unfit parent."

But what ignorant people don't realize, is that it actually works against you when the accusation proves to be unfounded.
Just one more nail in Patrick's coffin. Jmo

Yup. That accusation did two key things:

It provided credence to the custody motive.

It supported KK’s account that PF said he wanted Kelsey dead, because she was “abusive.”

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Exactly.

That document references interviews with the defendant, and “witnesses.”

It stands to reason that those witnesses would be people who interacted with Kelsey and/or the baby.

That’s a relatively small circle, so his family would be on that list.

Perhaps it were the 5 (?) people on PF's list, who should care for little K in his possible absence. His "estranged" brother and so on.

 

[Yellow Rose]

'Killer' fiance Patrick Frazee 'reported Kelsey Berreth to child services', new documents could show | Daily Mail Online

I just can hardly wait to see him get his comeuppance! I hate this guy with an increasing passion

 

[Mom24]

BBM. Where did you read that his accusations were in March, mom? I thought it was the motion that was filed March 20.
I may simply be confused.

I didn't word it well, the accusations I was referring to were the ones in the DHS interview in March.
I'm trying to figure out what prompted him to file for custody, make false allegations to DHS and to enlist someone to kill KB. I've always assumed it was something that happened in Aug, since that was when he first asked KK to kill KB. But he had already had an interview with DHS and made claims of abuse, so he was setting the stage as far back as March.
I did note on the timeline on the first page that KK claimed she and PF began their affair in March, perhaps that was the point when he decided to cut KB out of the picture? Or maybe he began the affair with KK to begin to manipulate her into killing KB?
KB bought her home in April, was she living with PF until that time and had moved out, thereby separating him from his child?
I don't know, but I have a suspicion that whatever drove this can be traced back to something that happened in just before that March DHS interview.

 

[Noharg]

Of course, we know that what DHS ultimately concluded was that Baby K. was better off with KB's parents in ID than with SF in CO at the ranchette, where she spent a considerable amount of her young life. There are likely some inferences that can be drawn from that.

But I know what you mean, and I agree that it will be interesting to see what DHS concluded r/t PF's allegations. These were not substantiated, of course.

It will be interesting to learn some day what PF's story was to DHS.

I suspect the whole genesis of his idea to make a false allegation to DHS was in that delivery room, when the hospital staff contacted DHS d/t his frightening outburst. He may have gotten the idea to call DHS himself to make an allegation on the basis of that experience and whatever ensued as a result.

JMO.

ITA that PF got his idea from the hospital incident. I remain baffled as to why KB was still with PF in November. She had to know about the alleged abuse report. That makes twice in the baby’s first year that DHS was contacted. I wonder if she understood that she was dealing with a narcissist and that this false accusation was PF putting a label on her that actually would better fit himself? I am not blaming KB, but just trying to understand. Did she think she could change him?
JMO and curiosity.

 

[Mom24]

Prosecutors want a judge to bar the public release of Teller County Department of Human Services records involving interviews with a Florissant rancher accused of killing his fiancee and burning her body. […]

They include “extensive interviews documenting statements made by the defendant and witnesses in this case,” Reed said.

The nature of the statements isn’t clear, but court testimony has revealed that Frazee claimed that Berreth abused their toddler daughter.

Such an allegation would trigger an investigation by child protective authorities, who investigate in secret and do not publicly discuss their work.

“The people respectfully request disclosure of these records to the defendant in the above-referenced case, subject to a protective order prohibiting dissemination to any person outside of the defendant’s legal defense team,” Reed wrote in her motion.

…... Court records show no evidence that child protective authorities pursued action against either Frazee or Berreth. bbm

Prosecutors in Kelsey Berreth case want DHS records kept secret

ETA: I recall a tweet by Sam Kraemer indicating a custody type document dated August was located in the SF residence. It follows this could be the time frame, and that allegations were unfounded (CPS pursued no action). MOO

What it sounds like is that PF made allegations and CPS investigated them. In their investigation they speak with people and it's done privately and done so with the knowledge that anyone interviewed will not be named publicly. If they release the documents, there will be names included or enough information as to allow certain parties to figure out who those interviewed were. CPS can't do their job appropriately if people live in fear of being exposed when they give statements.
The interesting thing is what the findings were in that report because included in that report would be what KB was treated for, and I'm certain her mother was truthful in that it was for exhaustion.

 

[makayla]

Ugh, I just read the Daily Mail article about PF reporting KB to child protective services. That man obviously went to any extremes to prove KB an unfit mother ... reporting her, and of course telling KK. No doubt he bad-mouthed KB to family and friends as well. I haven’t been able to check in lately due to house guests, but I had to come on today to express my disgust at PF. I hope and pray he is punished to the nth degree .... and I truly hope little K is kept far away from PF and his family. JMHO ....

 

[Noharg]

MOO A few of the posts yesterday made me think about PF’s defense strategy. I found this article on an attorney’s site interesting regarding affirmative defense in CO.

https://www.hmichaelsteinberg.com/colorados-affirmative-defenses-criminal-charges-.htm