CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

Missing Colorado Mom Update: Reports Of Alleged Child Abuse Surface As Possible Motive In Case

SFAA:
Agent testimony revealed that Frazee told them that Kaylee had a burn on her hand and a bump on her head, according to the news outlet.

It is not known if Frazee made the report to the Department of Human Services before or after Berreth’s disappearance.


Article from today, which is basically just a cut-and-paste job citing already published material.
Again, the timing of this abuse allegation PF made to DHS against KB is going to be interesting.
The timing is also likely going to be completely damning to PF.
He frazeed himself. Again.

JMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Missing Colorado Mom Update: Reports Of Alleged Child Abuse Surface As Possible Motive In Case

SFAA:
Agent testimony revealed that Frazee told them that Kaylee had a burn on her hand and a bump on her head, according to the news outlet.

It is not known if Frazee made the report to the Department of Human Services before or after Berreth’s disappearance.


Article from today, which is basically just a cut-and-paste job citing already published material.
Again, the timing of this abuse allegation PF made to DHS against KB is going to be interesting.
The timing is also likely going to be completely damning to PF.
He frazeed himself. Again.

JMO.

I'm with a previous poster considering, after reading the actual legal document that is being referred to, that this could be referring to the investigation made of him after the baby was born.

Just keeping my options open, and I haven't made a decision on if it is a fact that he actually had made a report,( or someone else anonymously) against KB, or if it is the one that was made on him that the legal documents are referring to as I don't think the media knows more than we here do.

It could very well be that the media has taken this and run, and it has gotten legs as to being the truth that he indeed reported it.

Moo

 

[MassGuy]

I'm with a previous poster considering, after reading the actual legal document that is being referred to, that this could be referring to the investigation made of him after the baby was born.

Just keeping my options open, and I haven't made a decision on if it is a fact that he actually had made a report,( or someone else anonymously) against KB, or if it is the one that was made on him that the legal documents are referring to as I don't think the media knows more than we here do.

It could very well be that the media has taken this and run, and it has gotten legs as to being the truth that he indeed reported it.

Moo

My impression from the hospital account provided by CB, is that it involved a cursory investigation.

It doesn’t sound to me, that a full blown investigation was done, one that would involve “extensive interviews, documenting statements made by the defendant and witnesses in this case.” - From Document

It’s possible, but that’s not the impression that I got from CB in the search warrant.

I think this investigation was separate from what happened in the hospital, and involved either PF, or someone under PF’s direction, making abuse claims.

Screenshots of pertinent documents attached:

 

[LietKynes]

I wouldn't put it past ma F. to have called in with a bogus abuse report.
Also marking my spot.
Hoping before this makes it to a new thread that some evidence will be recovered at the landfill.

 

[LietKynes]

Sorry everyone, this thread has been moving too fast for me to keep up 100%.

Did they ever determine whose teeth were found in the envelopes?

Emph. mine

We saved our some children's teeth as they fell out (after the 'Tooth Fairy' retrieved them ) both had a small , engraved pewter box with a lid.

As far as this family-- who knows ?
Somehow I'd doubt they were Kelsey's --wouldn't PF want them thrown away as possible evidence ?
Surely he's not that stupid.

I hate to think that he's put down dogs with a bat. What a cruel person---but this is PF we're talking about.

Having never been struck by a bat in my life, I wouldn't know the pain. Thank goodness.

But unless Kelsey's death was instant, and I doubt it, she must have suffered terribly !
Blinding pain , and was maybe trying to protect herself ,and run or crawl into another room ?
Her last thoughts could've been about her daughter.

 

[MassGuy]

Emph. mine

We saved our some children's teeth as they fell out (after the 'Tooth Fairy' retrieved them ) both had a small , engraved pewter box with a lid.

As far as this family-- who knows ?
Somehow I'd doubt they were Kelsey's --wouldn't PF want them thrown away as possible evidence ?
Surely he's not that stupid.

I hate to think that he's put down dogs with a bat. What a cruel person---but this is PF we're talking about.

Having never been struck by a bat in my life, I wouldn't know the pain. Thank goodness.

But unless Kelsey's death was instant, and I doubt it, she must have suffered terribly !
Blinding pain , and was maybe trying to protect herself ,and run or crawl into another room ?
Her last thoughts could've been about her daughter.

Yeah, I’ll be stunned if those teeth are in any way related to Kelsey’s murder.

This is PF (a guy who has no idea how phones work), but I don’t think he would have kept Kelsey’s teeth.

I’m more intrigued by the bloody sheet, and the blood that was found on cleaning supplies in his house.

 

[LietKynes]

Yeah, I’ll be stunned if those teeth are in any way related to Kelsey’s murder.

This is PF (a guy who has no idea how phones work), but I don’t think he would have kept Kelsey’s teeth.

I’m more intrigued by the bloody sheet, and the blood that was found on cleaning supplies in his house.

Emph. mine

I have to catch up.... Hadn't read about that sheet.
Was it found at the franchette ?


Eta : Welcome to Websleuths, 'but maybe' !

 

[MassGuy]

Emph. mine

I have to catch up.... Hadn't read about that sheet.
Was it found at the franchette ?

It’s on the list of seized items at his property.

“Floral fitted sheet with possible blood.”

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...ofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-111 Execution.pdf

 

[osu]

Hi
First time poster.
I believe the sweater over the eyes. I think that was PF's plan to attack her without her knowing. KK mentions picking up a knotted sweater when she was cleaning. I don't think that that is a detail that she would think to put in there. I'll bet it was the sweater that KB was wearing when she went shopping earlier. It looked like a light weight one that could easily be tied. Also, I think that PF was picking up KK's teeth and in doing so one fell down a vent and he was too lazy to retrieve it. Then he had second thoughts about it and told KK to retrieve it.
When PF said something to KK about using a bat and that it wouldn't be hard (to kill with), I think that is when KK got the idea that PF had killed before. I think that he may have used that method on a dog before. Sad. Bet he was surprised when it didn't work the same on a person.
Feel so sad for the Berreth family. Not fair.
So, I believe PF did the deed. Can't stand KK. Can't understand KK.
Feel like I know some of you! Been reading this forum since November. Thought it was about time I joined in.

Great post! ITA. Welcome to Websleuths ‘but maybe’.

 

[GordianKnot]

Yeah, I’ll be stunned if those teeth are in any way related to Kelsey’s murder.

This is PF (a guy who has no idea how phones work), but I don’t think he would have kept Kelsey’s teeth.

I’m more intrigued by the bloody sheet, and the blood that was found on cleaning supplies in his house.

I won't be shocked if the teeth collected in evidence aren't KBs.
I won't be shocked if they are, either.
I won't even be mildly surprised.
Neon.Flashing.Bread.Crumbs.

PF doesn't strike me as a "floral fitted sheet" kind of guy <modsnip: unnecessary insinutation>, nor does Ma F., for that matter. That sheet IS very interesting.

With the possible blood on that sheet and the presumptive positives on the Swiffer and the bottle of bleach, you have several items listed that presumably PF could have also disposed of vs. keeping at the ranchette. So keeping the teeth would be no huge surprise.
He may have put them in an envelope at KB's townhome, stashed them somewhere at the ranchette, and then forgotten all about them.

Fortunately for LE, PF appears to be both lazy and sloppy.
We know he was not fastidious in terms of his cleaning efforts at KB's townhome...hence the summons to his personal maid.
And we all know how brilliant this guy is, and by guy, I mean monster.

JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Patrick Frazee is due back in court this week for a pair of appearances. The first, April 4, is a disposition hearing for the custody case. Then on Friday, April 5, his arraignment hearing in the criminal case. He will enter a plea on Friday. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

12:57 PM - 1 Apr 2019 pst

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Both hearings are scheduled for 8:30 a.m. at the Teller County Courthouse in Cripple Creek. @KOAA will provide coverage, as we have throughout the case, both on-air and online. #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

12:58 PM - 1 Apr 2019 pst

 

[but maybe]

Emph. mine

I have to catch up.... Hadn't read about that sheet.
Was it found at the franchette ?


Eta : Welcome to Websleuths, 'but maybe' !

Thank you!

 

[but maybe]

Great post! ITA. Welcome to Websleuths ‘but maybe’.

Thank You!

 

[yawningreyhound]

Good post -- I would worry if somehow he were able to get control of that little girl, control freak that he is.

People who are mean to animals, as we know he is, are also mean to people, as we know he is. We not only want him behind bars for life, we also want him away from that trusting little innocent for life.

You know how people "project" their own behavior onto other people? I wonder if he was projecting his treatment of the child onto KB? So happy mini-KB is where she is.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

My impression from the hospital account provided by CB, is that it involved a cursory investigation.

It doesn’t sound to me, that a full blown investigation was done, one that would involve “extensive interviews, documenting statements made by the defendant and witnesses in this case.” - From Document

It’s possible, but that’s not the impression that I got from CB in the search warrant.

I think this investigation was separate from what happened in the hospital, and involved either PF, or someone under PF’s direction, making abuse claims.

Screenshots of pertinent documents attached:

I've been on the fence about this, but I'm about to fall over on this. Thanks for taking the time to post a disagreement and help my walk me through the logic of it all! That's what I love about this website!

Mostly, due to why else would her mother mention that at one point the baby had burns on her hand and a bump on her head if someone had not reported such, and she was aware of that due to a report and communicating its existence to the investigators.

I guess I was just focused primarily on the fact that some folks thought it was a fact, versus using logic to get there.

I had not gotten there but you're getting me there LOL.

I still haven't paid my $0.99, but I did a quick look before my webpage told me I could not see it because I had not paid my $0.99, and I saw that The Denver Post article from last Friday which Pommymommy quoted in media thread has changed the words from "could corroborate" to "could reveal".

The Daily Mail article is the only one of two (the other being the International Business Times) that straight out says " PF reported KB " that I have seen. And perhaps they are just interpreting what the Denver Post said and stating as fact that "PF made accusations against KB".

Neither of them have any new information, they are just rehashing what the Denver Post article said. And it is obvious they are posting the original article, versus the revised one.

Again, thank you for taking the time to walk me through this to better understand. It's not a fact, but I logically am getting there.

 

[MassGuy]

I've been on the fence about this, but I'm about to fall over on this. Thanks for taking the time to post a disagreement and help my walk me through the logic of it all! That's what I love about this website!

Mostly, due to why else would her mother mention that at one point the baby had burns on her hand and a bump on her head if someone had not reported such, and she was aware of that due to a report and communicating its existence to the investigators.

I guess I was just focused primarily on the fact that some folks thought it was a fact, versus using logic to get there.

I had not gotten there but you're getting me there LOL.

I still haven't paid my $0.99, but I did a quick look before my webpage told me I could not see it because I had not paid my $0.99, and I saw that The Denver Post article from last Friday which Pommymommy quoted in media thread has changed the words from "could corroborate" to "could reveal".

The Daily Mail article is the only one of two (the other being the International Business Times) that straight out says " PF reported KB " that I have seen. And perhaps they are just interpreting what the Denver Post said and stating as fact that "PF made accusations against KB".

Neither of them have any new information, they are just rehashing what the Denver Post article said. And it is obvious they are posting the original article, versus the revised one.

Again, thank you for taking the time to walk me through this to better understand. It's not a fact, but I logically am getting there.

Ha! There’s no guarantee I’m right, but that’s where I’m leaning on things.

Yeah, the Daily Mail is trash, and the IB Times is a straight up dumpster fire.

I regret sharing that original Denver Post article, as it had the most sensational take of all.

And you’re right, anyone having a take on that document that states what it alludes to as a fact, is doing it wrong.

I’d like to see an outlet interview someone in the know as to how DHS investigations work in Colorado, and what this document likely (really) means.

 

[MsBetsy]

Ha! There’s no guarantee I’m right, but that’s where I’m leaning on things.

Yeah, the Daily Mail is trash, and the IB Times is a straight up dumpster fire.

I regret sharing that original Denver Post article, as it had the most sensational take of all.

And you’re right, anyone having a take on that document that states what it alludes to as a fact, is doing it wrong.

I’d like to see an outlet interview someone in the know as to how DHS investigations work in Colorado, and what this document likely (really) means.

According to CB, Social Services conducted a safety evaluation in order to determine whether or not Patrick was physically abusing Kelsey. I'm not sure how that works, but I do know that for an evaluation to determine abuse of a child, they would interview anyone familiar with the child, such as the pediatrician, child- care providers, any family member that lives in the home, as well as speak to or interact with the child separately.
So if the document refers to the incident at the hospital, I'm not sure why they would interview anyone extensively since there would be no witness to attest to any mistreatment of the child.
They could have interviewed the nurses or people who witnessed him being verbally abusive towards a nurse, but I'm not sure they would have considered that enough reason to assume he would abuse the child in the future. Jmo

 

[24Brix]

Ha! There’s no guarantee I’m right, but that’s where I’m leaning on things.

Yeah, the Daily Mail is trash, and the IB Times is a straight up dumpster fire.

I regret sharing that original Denver Post article, as it had the most sensational take of all.

And you’re right, anyone having a take on that document that states what it alludes to as a fact, is doing it wrong.

I’d like to see an outlet interview someone in the know as to how DHS investigations work in Colorado, and what this document likely (really) means.

IMO, whatever this Child Protective Services story ultimately ends up meaning, the fact that it was brought to light by the DA’s office with a request to share it to the defense is what counts. Clearly, the DA views this information as something they plan to use to further the prosecution or it would not have been necessary to share that info with the defense.

MOO...

 

[Steelslady]

The baby probably fell and bumped her head while under his care. She could have gotten those burn marks touching something hot near a fire- let's face it, the man has a use for fire for many things. This all probably happened while under his care and he told his mother and friends it was Kelsey abusing her. I don't believe for one minute Kelsey harmed that sweet little baby girl.

 

[MassGuy]

The baby probably fell and bumped her head while under his care. She could have gotten those burn marks touching something hot near a fire- let's face it, the man has a use for fire for many things. This all probably happened while under his care and he told his mother and friends it was Kelsey abusing her. I don't believe for one minute Kelsey harmed that sweet little baby girl.

Even if the baby was injured under Kelsey’s care, that doesn’t make her a bad mother, and certainly not abusive.

So either way, I don’t buy it.