Madeleine McCann - Netflix documentary on this case

[Kitsey]

Red flags...the lack of photos past day one, the confusing whereabouts of the family in never being in the same place at the same time, the ever changing night in question, the faked shutter break in, the phones all being turned off the day before at the same time, the flurry of people flying to that place the day before this happened, that make up photo, Freud and other family friends, the Indian doctors who raised suspicions previously, smell of bleach, cadaver dogs, blood splatter, deleted photos, pyjamas

I don’t remember information about lack of photos, phones being turned off, a makeup photo, or Indian doctors. Do you remember which episode this was in?

 

[jewelsmac]

Paedophiles. It would have been more risky to take than 1. Plus they order children. I know this from someone who worked in this area. Age. Gender. Skin colour. It's beyond what normal people can comprehend.

Alesha Macphail was taken from her bed in the middle of the night from her bedroom when there were 4 adults in the house at the time and no one knew she was gone until morning. It's not only possible, it has happened.

As for the McCanns it's the timeline. Its always the timeline. That's why so many think she died earlier in the holiday and other people were paid to cover it up. I don't buy into that theory at all.

I agree. I’m not sure why people feel this wasn’t possible. There have been more than one case of girls, much older, pre-teens, taken from their own homes while their parents were in the house. These children were alone it would’ve been very easy for someone to go in and take one of them.

You could’ve had either a pedophile or traffickers watching these kids for days, watching the parents leave the kids alone at dinner time, and just seize the opportunity.

Some of the folks that worked in the “kids club” where the children of this group of friends were spending their days could have been involved. If you want to go to the conspiracy theory route.

It could’ve been lots of different scenarios. But this was not a terribly difficult thing to imagine happening. It happens every day, in every country in the world. Children disappear.

And if you think there are not pedophiles attracted to three-year-olds, you’d be wrong.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm about to watch episode 3 of this documentary now, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the maps and visuals it shows.

I don't know why, but I guess I thought of the vacation resort as a kind of gated community or area. But episode 1 showed that, even though suite 5A was within visual range from the tapas bar, in order to get from the bar to the apartment, you essentially had to exit the resort, go out onto a public street, walk up the sidewalk and up to the door of 5A which, by the way, faced this public street.

And as I saw that, I was just in shock. Like how in the world did it actually seem reasonable to seven adults to leave their children alone and unsupervised with that kind of locational setup? It literally makes no sense to me.

Even if you're not thinking anything sinister because nothing bad happens in that town, toddlers can get into all sorts of trouble on their own. What if Madeleine had a nightmare, and in her fear she ran out to the public street and into the path of a coming car?

I guess if the apartment door faced the tapas bar, I still wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand someone thinking, "well, there's nowhere she can go except towards us." But that's not how it was, and I don't think I'll ever understand it.

One of the most important reasons not to leave your kids on their own is the risk of fire.

3 year olds can't evacuate themselves

 

[mrjitty]

But the handler of these dogs was clearly leading them.

Just to focus on this - there is no reason for the handler not to lead the dogs to areas to check

Indeed drug and food dogs at airports are always lead to particular bags etc for close inspection.

I have never understood why this would be an issue. Seems more like a defence counsel type argument than scientific.

 

[Andieinsyd]

I’ve watched the series and my theory of the moment is that the employees of the tapas bar had good knowledge of the routine of the group - I believe Madeline was taken on the sixth night of tapas dinners - and also when the checks were happening. Someone may have been in contact with a kidnapper and let them know when there was a gap in Checks on the children. They would have likely known the rythum of the group, rooms and possibly which children belonged to the mccanns as their apartment was very close to the club.

I do believe the McCanns gave the children medication to ensure they didn’t wake up while the parents were out - I don’t believe they’d risk leaving them alone otherwise. MOO.

 

[JSolt1210]

I’ve watched the series and my theory of the moment is that the employees of the tapas bar had good knowledge of the routine of the group - I believe Madeline was taken on the sixth night of tapas dinners - and also when the checks were happening. Someone may have been in contact with a kidnapper and let them know when there was a gap in Checks on the children. They would have likely known the rythum of the group, rooms and possibly which children belonged to the mccanns as their apartment was very close to the club.

I do believe the McCanns gave the children medication to ensure they didn’t wake up while the parents were out - I don’t believe they’d risk leaving them alone otherwise. MOO.

Yeah, that's the conclusion I'm coming to as well.

If you'd asked me even last year, I probably would've said the parents did it. But now I doubt they'd spend all that money and make themselves so visible just to keep up an appearance. And I don't believe they could hide a body so well in unfamiliar territory, in such a short amount of time, that it hasn't been found for 12 years.

I think it's all guilt. They feel guilty for leaving their children alone in a hotel room with an unlocked door that faced a public street. They feel guilty for giving them sleeping aids because otherwise Madeleine could've struggled, screamed, and alerted passers-by. And the sightings depict a man carrying a girl who isn't moving, as if she were in deep sleep.

I think they tried to assuage their guilt by claiming they could see the room at all times from their table. In episode 3, a Portuguese reporter who sat at the same table said she couldn't really see much from there.

I too think it was someone who worked for the resort and noticed the pattern. I wonder if the police bothered to check employees who quit once this story blew up. No one expected this to become the sensation it did, and at the first signs, I'm sure any employee involved would've left.

 

[rudegirl]

Just finished the documentary, and I have a couple of questions.

Why did they get a rental car? Did they ever say a reason?

What was up with the yellow & green? Was it Madeleine’s favorite colors?

Did they know anyone in Portugal other than the friends who came with them? Did they ever find the connection with Murat?

As a parent, I find it very disturbing that they left 3 young children alone in a foreign country. I don’t even let my 12-year old stay home alone very often. These are babies we’re talking about! That was very selfish and reckless. If they wanted to party it up with friends, they shouldn’t have brought the kids with them.

Just because they have continued “searching” all these years, doesn’t convince me they didn’t have anything to do with it. The Ramsey’s continued to claim JonBenet was killed by an intruder all those years to protect their son (in my opinion).

I also believe the dogs did pick up odor from a dead body, and I don’t think it was from residual contact by the parents since they didn’t work in a medical situation where that would be common (general practice). I audibly gasped when I saw the dogs signal. I didn’t know that about the case.

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if the police bothered to check employees who quit once this story blew up.

I guess the police were too busy drinking beer and having slap up fish lunches.

 

[JSolt1210]

Just because they have continued “searching” all these years, doesn’t convince me they didn’t have anything to do with it. The Ramsey’s continued to claim JonBenet was killed by an intruder all those years to protect their son (in my opinion).

Good point about the Ramseys. I also believe they were involved in the death of JonBenét.

For me, though, the difference is that JonBenét was found in her own home, whereas the McCanns would've had to hide Madeleine in unfamiliar territory. Of course we can't completely rule out that scenario, but it doesn't seem too likely to me, so I find their search more genuine.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

I finished watching the series last night.
There were a couple of things that stood out to me:
1) The McCann's were asked why they were so controlled and unemotional about their missing child and Kate quickly said it was because if they cried or got emotional, it might cause the abductor harm Madeleine.
This makes zero sense to me.

2) After the press had blasted her for not crying I saw a close up of her doing an interview and it looked as though she was desperately trying to cry, but there no tears. Just the tip of her nose was red from when she rubbed it.

3) In just about every interview and photo I noticed that G&K were holding hands or were arm in arm, but it didn't look like affection or comforting each other, it looked more like a control thing, and as though they had their own secret that nobody else was privy to.
Another time, shortly after Madeleine went missing, the McCann's didn't realize they were being filmed by journalists, and they were bright, happy, smiling and waving cheerily to someone.

4)Hiring PR people so early into Madeleine's disappearance.
It just seems such an odd reaction, and so slick. They behaved furtively within hours of their child's disappearance as though they knew she'd never be found and they just wanted to cover their own backsides and keep up appearances.

5) They seemed so defensive and uncooperative -- almost disrespectful -- with the police in Portugal, even before they were considered arguidos.
Kate refusing to answer questions when she was taken in after becoming an arguido and muttering *advertiser censored**ing Tosser at the detectives. Their attitude was arrogant and dismissive, as though they were laughing at the Portuguese press, people and police. They were only interested in speaking with high profile people who offered them money and sympathy and didn't question their version of events.

Tampering with the crime scene. Gerry is not a stupid man and knows that the police would need to dust for fingerprints etc, but he purposely tampered with the window/blinds.

Overall, the McCann's behavior was odd to many people, not just a few. I mean look at Elizabeth Smart's parent's behavior when she was abducted. They were in true agony, crying, BEGGING for their child to be returned. They full cooperated with LE, the press etc. They were genuinely comforting one another and you could see their desperation and grief. They didn't immediately hire a slick PR team, attorneys, or create a pact of silence.

I saw no desperation, agony or genuine grief at all in either K or G McCann. It was like a production they were acting in.

moo

1) The McCann's were asked why they were so controlled and unemotional about their missing child and Kate quickly said it was because if they cried or got emotional, it might cause the abductor harm Madeleine.
This makes zero sense to me.

2) After the press had blasted her for not crying I saw a close up of her doing an interview and it looked as though she was desperately trying to cry, but there no tears. Just the tip of her nose was red from when she rubbed it.

3) In just about every interview and photo I noticed that G&K were holding hands or were arm in arm, but it didn't look like affection or comforting each other, it looked more like a control thing, and as though they had their own secret that nobody else was privy to.
Another time, shortly after Madeleine went missing, the McCann's didn't realize they were being filmed by journalists, and they were bright, happy, smiling and waving cheerily to someone.

4)Hiring PR people so early into Madeleine's disappearance.
It just seems such an odd reaction, and so slick. They behaved furtively within hours of their child's disappearance as though they knew she'd never be found and they just wanted to cover their own backsides and keep up appearances.

5) They seemed so defensive and uncooperative -- almost disrespectful -- with the police in Portugal, even before they were considered arguidos.
Kate refusing to answer questions when she was taken in after becoming an arguido and muttering *advertiser censored**ing Tosser at the detectives. Their attitude was arrogant and dismissive, as though they were laughing at the Portuguese press, people and police. They were only interested in speaking with high profile people who offered them money and sympathy and didn't question their version of events.

Tampering with the crime scene. Gerry is not a stupid man and knows that the police would need to dust for fingerprints etc, but he purposely tampered with the window/blinds.

Overall, the McCann's behavior was odd to many people, not just a few. I mean look at Elizabeth Smart's parent's behavior when she was abducted. They were in true agony, crying, BEGGING for their child to be returned. They full cooperated with LE, the press etc. They were genuinely comforting one another and you could see their desperation and grief. They didn't immediately hire a slick PR team, attorneys, or create a pact of silence.

I saw no desperation, agony or genuine grief at all in either K or G McCann. It was like a production they were acting in.

moo[/QUOTE]

I have been a member of webslueths for a long time. Seems like I am here a lot and then life gets in the way. So.... I don't post often. All that to say, as a family we have always traveled often to similar places as Praia da Luz. I have followed this case from the beginning. The mother in me wants to believe that the parents were not involved. I asked my husband the other night "do you recall, in all our travels when the kids were young did we ever go out and leave them alone sleeping in the apartment." His response was "We would have never done that, you would be a nervous wreck". This is a practice of some parents that I just don't get. Is this common in some cultures?

In response to your first point- I am in the medical profession. Because of the things I have seen I am very easily able to maintain control of myself in the most dire circumstances. Now, I say that also adding that I am an extremely emotional person. When there is a crisis though, I am a rock. Behind closed doors I can fall apart. Because of the McCanns background this may be what you are witnessing. I know you could argue "but the is their child", and I get that. I just feel like I could possibly behave in the same way.

As far as Kate not crying in public, I don't know. I again could see myself losing control in private, while being able to maintain composure in public.

I do agree that in public their behavior as a couple seems a bit off. Definitely G is In Charge!

I do feel that the McCanns believe that the police in Praia da Luz were incompetent, and that they themselves were superior human beings. Ummm you are in a forge in country and need all the help you can get! I wonder if that is typical of them in everyday life?

Just a few thoughts. Enjoy reading your posts.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

Does anyone else find it curious that the family was not supportive in the making of this series? I would think that any publicity they receive in connection would be welcomed. It has been 12 years, people move on and lose interest. Also, there is a new generation who may never have heard of this case that could possibly develop interest, keeping this case in the forefront of peoples minds.

 

[pinkje]

Very contrary of the McCann’s to ‘obey’ the Portuguese police in keeping a calm exterior yet they declined to do a re-enactment.

 

[Beltonian]

They felt comfortable leaving babies alone at night because they knew that they won't wake up - kids were drugged...Why they did not lock the apartment is a huge question - at night in a foreign country three little ones alone??
How many of Tapas 7 had kids that also were left unattended? I did not get that part...

 

[JSolt1210]

I finished watching the series last night.
There were a couple of things that stood out to me:

1) The McCann's were asked why they were so controlled and unemotional about their missing child and Kate quickly said it was because if they cried or got emotional, it might cause the abductor harm Madeleine.
This makes zero sense to me.

2) After the press had blasted her for not crying I saw a close up of her doing an interview and it looked as though she was desperately trying to cry, but there no tears. Just the tip of her nose was red from when she rubbed it...

Overall, the McCann's behavior was odd to many people, not just a few. I mean look at Elizabeth Smart's parent's behavior when she was abducted. They were in true agony, crying, BEGGING for their child to be returned. They full cooperated with LE, the press etc. They were genuinely comforting one another and you could see their desperation and grief. They didn't immediately hire a slick PR team, attorneys, or create a pact of silence.

I saw no desperation, agony or genuine grief at all in either K or G McCann. It was like a production they were acting in.

moo

Does anyone else find it curious that the family was not supportive in the making of this series? I would think that any publicity they receive in connection would be welcomed. It has been 12 years, people move on and lose interest. Also, there is a new generation who may never have heard of this case that could possibly develop interest, keeping this case in the forefront of peoples minds.

I fully agree with these points.

Yes, who's to say how someone is supposed to grieve or show emotion? Or who knows what Kate and Gerry actually behaved behind closed doors?

But I don't know... if it were me in that situation, I doubt I'd be able to contain myself—even if I really believed that showing grief might cause the abductor to harm my child (which also made zero sense to me, btw). I heard the quivering voice of one crying but no tears, and I just don't know quite what to make of that.

Episode 5 introduces some people who say they saw and felt their grief firsthand, and I remember thinking, "well I didn't really..." And I get that Kate and Gerry don't owe us a public display of grief—but again, the contrast between them and the Smart family is striking to me.

And second, I find it a little hypocritical of them to be the first to involve press and publicity but then shun them when things escalate. I kinda want to say, "I'm sorry, but you opened this door..." I too find it curious that they didn't participate in this documentary, when there might not even have been a documentary if they hadn't hired PR reps and gone public. Maybe they've just accepted their daughter is gone?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Sorry to interrupt, is this is off topic for what it says under thread title.

I am just catching up in this case, and I am watching an ID channel new show tonight. Where is the main thread for discussion for this case?

I'm trying to research here and it seems like every single one is shut down and locked without any discussion.

Thanks in advance!

 

[iailwa]

Sorry to interrupt, is this is off topic for what it says under thread title.

I am just catching up in this case, and I am watching an ID channel new show tonight. Where is the main thread for discussion for this case?

I'm trying to research here and it seems like every single one is shut down and locked without any discussion.

Thanks in advance!

I think this is the only thread you can discuss it on... I haven’t found any other although I could be wrong

 

[pinkje]

Sorry to interrupt, is this is off topic for what it says under thread title.

I am just catching up in this case, and I am watching an ID channel new show tonight. Where is the main thread for discussion for this case?

I'm trying to research here and it seems like every single one is shut down and locked without any discussion.

Thanks in advance!

You can always try Reddit but be prepared to lose many hours ....

 

[Suglo]

Sorry to interrupt, is this is off topic for what it says under thread title.

I am just catching up in this case, and I am watching an ID channel new show tonight. Where is the main thread for discussion for this case?

I'm trying to research here and it seems like every single one is shut down and locked without any discussion.

Thanks in advance!

This is the link to the actual forum with all the threads on her disappearance. This thread is at the top of the open ones but there are a few more that are also open.

Madeleine McCann

 

[Keine Engel]

I guess the police were too busy drinking beer and having slap up fish lunches.

LOL

 

[mrjitty]

LOL