SYRIA - Shamima Begum, 15, joined ISIS, can return for UK citizenship fight, Feb 2015

[Mercsw]

The problem with this case is that a child grooming issue became something bigger and now it’s just incredibly tragic.

At 14/15 someone in her family/friends/school/community/mosque groomed her and her friends so they secretly fled to Syria via an underground network of routes.

Within a week she was married to a 27 year old serial killer and nonce. Let’s not refer to him as an extremist or other polite words.

Rather than saying how she’s bad because she’s not bothered about severed heads in her kitchen, ask why there are severed heads in the kitchen! Her friends both dead, she’s now had three children die in horrible ways shortly after birth.

So newspapers sensationalising comments about Manchester to stir up hatred, they should instead be asking how damaged she is. That’s a lot of death and horror to go through in such a short period of time for anyone.

 

[gitana1]

Providing she could actually get back then I'd take her back, not for her sake but for the babies. The baby can be given to her parents or put up for adoption and she can be jailed for terrorism offences. Regardless of whether she was actually fighting or not she was a member of a banned terrorist group.

I disagree. The children of these terrorists can be rescued without taking these women back.

And jailed? In the US they'd be facing life in federal prison.

They're terrorists.

 

[gitana1]

The problem with this case is that a child grooming issue became something bigger and now it’s just incredibly tragic.

At 14/15 someone in her family/friends/school/community/mosque groomed her and her friends so they secretly fled to Syria via an underground network of routes.

Within a week she was married to a 27 year old serial killer and nonce. Let’s not refer to him as an extremist or other polite words.

Rather than saying how she’s bad because she’s not bothered about severed heads in her kitchen, ask why there are severed heads in the kitchen! Her friends both dead, she’s now had three children die in horrible ways shortly after birth.

So newspapers sensationalising comments about Manchester to stir up hatred, they should instead be asking how damaged she is. That’s a lot of death and horror to go through in such a short period of time for anyone.

I'm unmoved. My mother and uncle and grandparents went through war. But not voluntarily. And they didn't become monsters who urged people to kill innocents.

This woman remains a terrorist. She is a danger to the world. At a certain point we have to protect ourselves from someone as "damaged" as her.

 

[gitana1]

Another incident, this time the USA:

Hoda Muthana, who says she made a mistake in joining the group and now wants to return with her 18-month-old son, has no “legal basis” to claim American citizenship.

‘ISIS bride’ who says she was born in N.J. banned from returning to U.S., regrets leaving home to join terror group

Hoda Muthana doubled down after going to Syria and being confused and shocked by the situation there, realizing she was just in a locked home.

But that didn't deter her. She ignored the help offered by a civil rights attorney hired by the family to get her back home. She declined that.

She then became a propagandist and wrote various tweets encouraging people to commit mass murder against innocents at Memorial Day events, etc.

She is delusional. She remains arrogant and thinks she "will do jail time if necessary". If necessary? Lady if the law allowed you to return to the US you'd be in federal prison for decades, if not life.

The making of an American terrorist: Hoda Muthana joined ISIS. Now she can’t come back

 

[gitana1]

I have to say, why are these women not treated as terrorists? They cooked, cleaned, assisted, provided sex and babies, perhaps cleaned and loadsl ordinance. They went over there voluntarily. Specifically to become Jihadi brides. Now that it is over, they want to be viewed as innocent girls who made a BIG mistake? Taqiyya.

They are terrorists. They did more than cook as clean too. They worked on social media propaganda encouraging people to kill innocents in acts of mass murder.

In the US they'd be inprisoned as terrorists if allowed to return.

 

[gitana1]

This may get interesting.

She was young- Absolutely. MOO she is still young, immature, + full of entitlement. And I understand Stockholm Syndrome, but...

She has stated the sight of decapitated heads did not bother her and she hasn’t regretted going. She just wants to return since IS has been defeated. I’m sure all those harmed want their peaceful lives back too.

That she wants the US to provide her help to “ensure she doesn’t repeat her actions” is just mindblowing.

And then there is her child. US courts usually forbid a parent from taking a child from the other birth parent. So how would this work?

If these women want their kids to have normal, safe lives they will work to get their kids - not themselves- back to their countries of origin, to live with their relatives.

They can relinquish custody. The kids all have Syrian nationality. They can work to obtain Syrian passports for the kids and get them out. Then have them obtain citizenship in whatever nation they're going to.

People who truly love their kids and want what's best for them would give them up rather than allow them to continue living in war-torn, dangerous and unhygienic squalor.

 

[silverjug]

The problem with this case is that a child grooming issue became something bigger and now it’s just incredibly tragic.

At 14/15 someone in her family/friends/school/community/mosque groomed her and her friends so they secretly fled to Syria via an underground network of routes.

Within a week she was married to a 27 year old serial killer and nonce. Let’s not refer to him as an extremist or other polite words.

Rather than saying how she’s bad because she’s not bothered about severed heads in her kitchen, ask why there are severed heads in the kitchen! Her friends both dead, she’s now had three children die in horrible ways shortly after birth.

So newspapers sensationalising comments about Manchester to stir up hatred, they should instead be asking how damaged she is. That’s a lot of death and horror to go through in such a short period of time for anyone.

Her choice to go. The only reason she wants to come back to the UK and play the sob story, is because things now are going bad for her. She has comm
itted treason and she should not be allowed back here.

 

[Medstudies]

If these women want their kids to have normal, safe lives they will work to get their kids - not themselves- back to their countries of origin, to live with their relatives.

They can relinquish custody. The kids all have Syrian nationality. They can work to obtain Syrian passports for the kids and get them out. Then have them obtain citizenship in whatever nation they're going to.

People who truly love their kids and want what's best for them would give them up rather than allow them to continue living in war-torn, dangerous and unhygienic squalor.

Exactly. I would imagine diplomatic relations would facilitate the return of the innocent children to their extended families abroad.

The making of an American terrorist: Hoda Muthana joined ISIS. Now she can’t come back

New story today, so much in it to dissect, all of it just a poor excuse and bs, but I’m going to start with this little gem: “By November 2018 – more than four years into her time with ISIS – the situation for Muthana in Syria had soured. She contacted Shibly, the Florida-based attorney whose help she had earlier spurned. With the U.S. and its allies in Syria on the verge of reclaiming most of ISIS' territory, Muthana was looking for a way out.”

There it is. She was fine being there for four years, when things were going well. Her regrets? Only that the reign of terrorizing she so enthusiastically participated in was finished.

Sorry Hoda. You chose wrong.

 

[gitana1]

Exactly. I would imagine diplomatic relations would facilitate the return of the innocent children to their extended families abroad.

The making of an American terrorist: Hoda Muthana joined ISIS. Now she can’t come back

New story today, so much in it to dissect, all of it just a poor excuse and bs, but I’m going to start with this little gem: “By November 2018 – more than four years into her time with ISIS – the situation for Muthana in Syria had soured. She contacted Shibly, the Florida-based attorney whose help she had earlier spurned. With the U.S. and its allies in Syria on the verge of reclaiming most of ISIS' territory, Muthana was looking for a way out.”

There it is. She was fine being there for four years, when things were going well. Her regrets? Only that the reign of terrorizing she so enthusiastically participated in was finished.

Sorry Hoda. You chose wrong.

Exactly. I can't with these women. They're terrorists. The type of people to whom beheading videos would appeal are monsters in my mind. I don't buy the stuff about being brainwashed and young.

When I was young if someone showed me videos of people getting their jeads cut off I wouldn't have said "Oh yeah!! That looks like a cause I can get excited about!"

My gosh. They're sociopaths.

 

[Medstudies]

Exactly. I can't with these women. They're terrorists. The type of people to whom beheading videos would appeal are monsters in my mind. I don't buy the stuff about being brainwashed and young.

When I was young if someone showed me videos of people getting their jeads cut off I wouldn't have said "Oh yeah!! That looks like a cause I can get excited about!"

My gosh. They're sociopaths.

Yes they are! I’m right there with you. And I’m done with her dad sausage routine. There are so many young girls who have grown up in similar conditions (and worse conditions!) most have turned out to be wonderful human beings and good members of society.

She can just step off with her pathetic excuses. She went because she wanted to. She has gone on record stating seeing a dismembered head in a waste bin did not phase her. She was good with the indiscriminate killings of innocent parties. She’s only sorry she chose to side up with a bunch loser moronic terrorists.

I’ll be over here not caring about her sleeping conditions and I’m going to take a guess she never read “lord of the flies”

(All just moo)

 

[Mercsw]

It seems to me someone is messed up in the head rather than evil. They were groomed at 14 and this idea that they decided to go is like saying paedophile victims chose to have sex with their abusers. I would flip the above points over and ask why 15 year olds aren’t phased by multiple child deaths, severed heads, brutal killings and other atrocities. It’s just really sad to think something happened to them mentally and they opted for a life of abuse.

Adding I don’t think a few sessions on a couch will solve these problems but neither will leaving them to die in the Syrian desert

 

[FrostOwl]

The kids all have Syrian nationality. They can work to obtain Syrian passports for the kids and get them out. Then have them obtain citizenship in whatever nation they're going to.

Do these children really have Syrian nationality? Even if the children were born in Syria, unless their fathers were a Syrian national, the children have no right to Syrian nationality, as it can only be passed from father to child (with very few exceptions), Syrian nationality law - Wikipedia
As there were men with other nationalities in the ISIS, their children do not have the right to a Syrian passport, and possibly not to their parents nationality either, if the parents have been stripped of their nationality, and in that case those children will be stateless.

 

[gitana1]

Do these children really have Syrian nationality? Even if the children were born in Syria, unless their fathers were a Syrian national, the children have no right to Syrian nationality, as it can only be passed from father to child (with very few exceptions), Syrian nationality law - Wikipedia
As there were men with other nationalities in the ISIS, their children do not have the right to a Syrian passport, and possibly not to their parents nationality either, if the parents have been stripped of their nationality, and in that case those children will be stateless.

Oh wow! That makes things much more difficult. I didn't know that. It does seem to make them stateless.

 

[gitana1]

Do these children really have Syrian nationality? Even if the children were born in Syria, unless their fathers were a Syrian national, the children have no right to Syrian nationality, as it can only be passed from father to child (with very few exceptions), Syrian nationality law - Wikipedia
As there were men with other nationalities in the ISIS, their children do not have the right to a Syrian passport, and possibly not to their parents nationality either, if the parents have been stripped of their nationality, and in that case those children will be stateless.

But some apparently may be able to claim Syrian nationality this way: "when they are born in Syria and were not at the time of their birth entitled to acquire a foreign nationality from their parents". From your link.

 

[FrostOwl]

But some apparently may be able to claim Syrian nationality this way: "when they are born in Syria and were not at the time of their birth entitled to acquire a foreign nationality from their parents". From your link.

But would the Syrian government want to grant citizenship to children whose fathers/parents had fought against the same government? And most likely the children would have to wait until they are 18 before they would be able apply for citizenship.
Syria haven't given Palestinian refugees living in Syria for more than 50 years citizenship, and those had not been fighting against the government, so I doubt today's children born in Syria without a Syrian fathers will get a Syrian citizenship. The Palestinians in Syria: Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor

There are about 60 to 80 children, some of them orphants, with Swedish connections in Syrian refugee camps whose parents have fought for ISIS, waiting to get to Sweden.

 

[gitana1]

But would the Syrian government want to grant citizenship to children whose fathers/parents had fought against the same government? And most likely the children would have to wait until they are 18 before they would be able apply for citizenship.
Syria haven't given Palestinian refugees living in Syria for more than 50 years citizenship, and those had not been fighting against the government, so I doubt today's children born in Syria without a Syrian fathers will get a Syrian citizenship. The Palestinians in Syria: Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor

There are about 60 to 80 children, some of them orphants, with Swedish connections in Syrian refugee camps whose parents have fought for ISIS, waiting to get to Sweden.

Yeah. You're right.

 

[Mercsw]

Children are victims and should be taken into care in the nearest safe haven regardless of nationality. The others should be returned to their country of origin and detained immediately pending investigation and trial.

I would feel safer knowing these murderers are in Dutch, British or French jails than wandering free in crumbling states

 

[JerseyGirl]

https://nypost.com/2020/07/16/isis-bride-shamima-begum-can-return-to-uk-to-fight-for-citizenship/

Shamima Begum — the British woman who fled to Syria to join the terror group in 2015 and quickly married one of its fighters — can return home to appeal the decision to strip her of citizenship, a court ruled Thursday.

Begum, 20, was 15 when she took off with two other schoolgirls from Bethnal Green Academy in East London to join the terror group.

 

[Rosegold68]

so how woos how is she going to get back here? she's in Syria,doubt theres a bus..

 

[AliceInPain]

Will be interesting to see how this goes.
She won't be able to live in the UK regardless because she will get murdered, and she won't be able to pick a European country to hide in because Brexit.
Maybe she can seek asylum in Syria?