OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#46

[Dudly]

Would the 3D scanner show the bullet projection path so if a 6' 6" person shot a sleeping person vs a 5" 2" person shooting them would the 3zd scanner show the correct angle?

I'm sure they have bullet paths determined. That said, most were shot at such close range I doubt it could determine height of the shooter.

 

[Betty P]

Good to see you, CC!

If AW stayed home that night, why did she buy herself boots? JMO, but I believe she was at all four scenes, just as stated in her indictment. JMO.

From what we've seen thus far of the evidence, it looks like she was at the crime scenes that night. Due to her controlling nature, I see her as being involved in the planning and wanted to be there to make sure everything went as planned. I also think she's cold blooded and capable of witnessing and participating in the murders herself. JMO, she was delusional enough to think she was on a "mission from God" to wipe out a "sinful" family that she perceived as a threat to S. She's a zealot about her family and faith and she wasn't going to let anything stand in the way of killing the Rhoden family. I've always noticed there's no indication in old photos, social media or family interviews that Dana and Angela had any kind of good relationship. JMO, I don't think they got along well at all and that may (or may not) be relevant to part of the motive for murder.

Obviously, at this point she had also turned against Hanna Rhoden. Part of Angela's process of dehumanizing her victims was to convince herself these women were bad, sinful and going to hell anyway. She was also fearful of incurring the wrath of her mother in law, Fredericka, who was probably upset with the state of affairs.

Recall in one of the video clips of Fredericka in her Plain Dealer profile, she makes a revealing remark about Billy's family considering Jake and Hanna to be "married". There was a kind of sneer or disapproving gesture she made when discussing Hanna. JMO, the split between Jake and Hanna and the looming custody fight was something that bothered Fredericka, possibly due to inheritance issues. Fred probably showed her disapproval and laid down the law to Billy and Angela to take care of the situation.

JMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

From what we've seen thus far of the evidence, it looks like she was at the crime scenes that night. Due to her controlling nature, I see her as being involved in the planning and wanted to be there to make sure everything went as planned. I also think she's cold blooded and capable of witnessing and participating in the murders herself. JMO, she was delusional enough to think she was on a "mission from God" to wipe out a "sinful" family that she perceived as a threat to S. She's a zealot about her family and faith and she wasn't going to let anything stand in the way of killing the Rhoden family. I've always noticed there's no indication in old photos, social media or family interviews that Dana and Angela had any kind of good relationship. JMO, I don't think they got along well at all and that may (or may not) be relevant to part of the motive for murder.

Obviously, at this point she had also turned against Hanna Rhoden. Part of Angela's process of dehumanizing her victims was to convince herself these women were bad, sinful and going to hell anyway. She was also fearful of incurring the wrath of her mother in law, Fredericka, who was probably upset with the state of affairs.

Recall in one of the video clips of Fredericka in her Plain Dealer profile, she makes a revealing remark about Billy's family considering Jake and Hanna to be "married". There was a kind of sneer or disapproving gesture she made when discussing Hanna. JMO, the split between Jake and Hanna and the looming custody fight was something that bothered Fredericka, possibly due to inheritance issues. Fred probably showed her disapproval and laid down the law to Billy and Angela to take care of the situation.

JMO

I have also wondered and felt DR and AW were not exactly friends. I get the impression DR supported HR moving on with her life and only wanted her daughter to be happy. This in my view absolutely fueled the fire. In everything I have found on the W’s, they have always managed to come out on top, get what they want, and win legal battles. They may be of the current thinking that they will win this one as well.

I think BW, and then G4, and Jake, were groomed to marry a female that would stay home, have no social life, and be their “property” so to speak. I think it’s possible AW lived this way with total admiration toward FW and expected her daughter in laws to do the same. I think the sense of entitlement is clear from Jakes statement that if HR’s newborn was not his he wouldn’t take it, but demand visitation.

I think HR may have been wrapped up in the idea of this type of commitment and life, but as she matured she recognized that she wanted more. She wanted to go into nursing, she appeared to want a social life, and I felt she made it clear she was NO ONE’S PROPERTY.

All JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

The rich do spend a lot of time and effort finding ways to keep their wealth. I can see the W's being fine with HR benefitting at some point down the road because she'd be benefitting alongside JW, she was to be married to him. Then she drops him and becomes an outsider who can now theaten the control of the weath in the future, in their minds. I can certainly see this worrying them, as it probably did with GW4's ex.
I also think AW most likely stayed home with the kids that night. Didn't JW say in an article, I think it was that Chris Graves one, that he saw HR's bew baby and was checking her feet for a W family trait. So he was either at the hospital or it was when he pucked up SW at DR's, like he originally said he did.
Who do you think out of the 4 will go to trial first?

You asked me who I thought would go to trial first and I was hoping you would tell me! I would really like to hear what a criminal trial lawyer would say about it. A criminal trial attorney would know what the best strategy would be. I think going first is either the best thing to do or the worst thing to do.

And yes Jake did say he checked Kylie's toe for a family trait, he said a hammer toe. That's how they got the nickname: "The Hammer Toe Clan."
But I don't believe anything he says. I believe he knew Kylie wasn't his and is giving out a false narrative for his own benefit.
I even think Hanna getting pregnant with another man's child was a motive in the murders.

Jake had said he thought Hanna was going through a phase and would come back to him (looking for the article link). If Kylie was his child there would have been a greater chance Hanna would have come back to him. When he found out the baby wasn't his and she had moved on with 2 other boyfriends, he knew it was over for good.

Now there would permanently be another man in Hanna's life, Kylie's dad, and this is another reason for the murders.

It's no accident the entire murder was planned during Hanna's pregnancy. Who plans someone's murder during their pregnancy, then murders them directly after? A scorned lover.

If he thought Kylie might be his, he would at the very least have put her in her crib to help keep her safe. Lying in a bloody bed where she's alone for 5 plus hours and where she could have been smothered, is not what someone does when they think they might be the dad to that baby.

.....This is just my own opinion.....2 Cents.....

 

[Betty P]

I have also wondered and felt DR and AW were not exactly friends. I get the impression DR supported HR moving on with her life and only wanted her daughter to be happy. This in my view absolutely fueled the fire. In everything I have found on the W’s, they have always managed to come out on top, get what they want, and win legal battles. They may be of the current thinking that they will win this one as well.

I think BW, and then G4, and Jake, were groomed to marry a female that would stay home, have no social life, and be their “property” so to speak. I think it’s possible AW lived this way with total admiration toward FW and expected her daughter in laws to do the same. I think the sense of entitlement is clear from Jakes statement that if HR’s newborn was not his he wouldn’t take it, but demand visitation.

I think HR may have been wrapped up in the idea of this type of commitment and life, but as she matured she recognized that she wanted more. She wanted to go into nursing, she appeared to want a social life, and I felt she made it clear she was NO ONE’S PROPERTY.

All JMO

Agree! I think DR wanted Hanna to graduate from high school and get enough education to be able to work and support herself and her family if needed. Like many moms, DR probably didn't want Hanna to get latched on to a life of having babies and staying home so early in life, being financially dependent on a boyfriend or husband. DR probably knew that kind of life meant having to give up freedom and tolerate bad behavior for the sake of financial support. JW and HR broke up because of some bad behavior and unhappiness. Being financially independent was a way for HR to avoid that trap.

JMO, AW wouldn't have seen marriage that way.

 

[Aydrianna523]

You asked me who I thought would go to trial first and I was hoping you would tell me! I would really like to hear what a criminal trial lawyer would say about it. A criminal trial attorney would know what the best strategy would be. I think going first is either the best thing to do or the worst thing to do.

And yes Jake did say he checked Kylie's toe for a family trait, he said a hammer toe. That's how they got the nickname: "The Hammer Toe Clan."
But I don't believe anything he says. I believe he knew Kylie wasn't his and is giving out a false narrative for his own benefit.
I even think Hanna getting pregnant with another man's child was a motive in the murders.

Jake had said he thought Hanna was going through a phase and would come back to him (looking for link). If Kylie was his child there would have been a greater chance Hanna would have come back to him. When he found out the baby wasn't his and she had moved on with 2 other boyfriends, he knew it was over for good.

Now there would permanently be another man in Hanna's life, Kylie's dad, and this is another reason for the murders.

It's no accident the entire murder was planned during Hanna's pregnancy. Who plans someone's murder during their pregnancy, then murders them directly after? A scorned lover.

If he thought Kylie might be his, he would at the very least have put her in her crib to help keep her safe. Lying in a bloody bed where she's alone for 5 plus hours and where she could have been smothered, is not what someone does when they think they might be the dad to that baby.

.....This is just my own opinion.....2 Cents.....

I haven't been able to follow a lot but my guess is scorned lover, as well. His child was not there so he did make sure she was safe...so I think you're right about the new baby.

 

[Tiff23fr]

You asked me who I thought would go to trial first and I was hoping you would tell me! I would really like to hear what a criminal trial lawyer would say about it. A criminal trial attorney would know what the best strategy would be. I think going first is either the best thing to do or the worst thing to do.

And yes Jake did say he checked Kylie's toe for a family trait, he said a hammer toe. That's how they got the nickname: "The Hammer Toe Clan."
But I don't believe anything he says. I believe he knew Kylie wasn't his and is giving out a false narrative for his own benefit.
I even think Hanna getting pregnant with another man's child was a motive in the murders.

Jake had said he thought Hanna was going through a phase and would come back to him (looking for link). If Kylie was his child there would have been a greater chance Hanna would have come back to him. When he found out the baby wasn't his and she had moved on with 2 other boyfriends, he knew it was over for good.

Now there would permanently be another man in Hanna's life, Kylie's dad, and this is another reason for the murders.

It's no accident the entire murder was planned during Hanna's pregnancy. Who plans someone's murder during their pregnancy, then murders them directly after? A scorned lover.

If he thought Kylie might be his, he would at the very least have put her in her crib to help keep her safe. Lying in a bloody bed where she's alone for 5 plus hours and where she could have been smothered, is not what someone does when they think they might be the dad to that baby.

.....This is just my own opinion.....2 Cents.....

I also feel he knew the baby was not his. I think this is one of the "many lies" told to LE. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Check Brown County, Ohio...

The plot containing the residence and major outbuilding is titled to White Pines Realty.
The plot contains 130 acres valued at $ 761, 370.00 in the last evaluation. Can you
see the connection to the insurance policy proceeds? This property in not in a trust.

Start your search with Lucasville Missions being incorporated in 1959 by the Cyrus Family
and their (Cyrus) holdings. Quite interesting.

Thank you FSC, I have the above, too.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Do you think all 4 went home to home or split it up?
I think for sure all 4 went to DR, possibly Billy/JW to CRSR and Gary with AW/GWIV to FR/HG. Needing to do them at same time.

Do we have to use only initials on WS? I think i got it but I'd have to flip to page 1 to be sure.
You're saying that possibly Billy (who is G3) and JW went to CRSR's place and to Gary's place. And AW and GW4 went to FR's place and HR's place.
Is that the 4 crime scenes? Sorry. Life in general is preventing me from keeping up.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have seen several cases where families commit cold blooded murder to gain full control of a child or children. All of them are just awful, not only for the murdered victims, but especially the children caught up in the evil through no choice of their own. The child or children lose more than anyone.

But THIS case reeks of the purest evil of a family who plotted, and carried out 8 murders to completely eliminate the entire family, so none of them would ever have a chance to gain custody, when something horrible happened to the child's mother.

It truly is the worst case of an entire family being destroyed in the most horrific way, all because the Ws wanted to own this child like she was a piece of luggage belonging to them.

Not only have they destroyed 8 victims, and forever changed the lives of the family members, they have all destroyed the little girl's life who will never be the same again.

They all victimized her too. All because of them she will never get to be around the R family. She deserved so much more than the Ws have given her to live with for the rest of her life. It shows it was never really about her, and only what they wanted.

What diabolical evil they have shown to everyone. Thinking they were the ones entitled to decide who gets to live or die.

I haven't read up on this case closely due to many other cases happening at the same time. So I don't even know if Ohio is a death penalty state or not.

No matter what, these control freak mass murdering monsters, deserve nothing less than the very harshest punishment allowed under Ohio law X 8..

I think the Ws have long done other illegal acts, but because they had money they got away with it. Imo Lady Justice may wear a blindfold, but she can still smell money just fine.

This time all the money in the world won't help them. They stepped way beyond the bounds for society to ever accept.

It shows how they all sat around the table plotting, and planning to murder each one, one by one. That is the epitome of evil. Imo

Many shows on true crime channels talks about how sociopaths often group up with other sociopaths like them to plot, plan, and carryout unbelievably sadistic homicides. These defendants are the same, feeding off each other's evil.

The Ws truly believed they were entitled to do whatever they wanted to do, and that is why 8 victims died so brutally.

Every show or documentary, I've seen covering the Ws makes me more replused, and disgusted to know people like them even exist.

I will be so glad to see justice served for all 8 victims, and for the defendants to be referred to by inmate numbers only.

Imo

 

[rsd1200]

I have also wondered and felt DR and AW were not exactly friends. I get the impression DR supported HR moving on with her life and only wanted her daughter to be happy. This in my view absolutely fueled the fire. In everything I have found on the W’s, they have always managed to come out on top, get what they want, and win legal battles. They may be of the current thinking that they will win this one as well.

I think BW, and then G4, and Jake, were groomed to marry a female that would stay home, have no social life, and be their “property” so to speak. I think it’s possible AW lived this way with total admiration toward FW and expected her daughter in laws to do the same. I think the sense of entitlement is clear from Jakes statement that if HR’s newborn was not his he wouldn’t take it, but demand visitation.

I think HR may have been wrapped up in the idea of this type of commitment and life, but as she matured she recognized that she wanted more. She wanted to go into nursing, she appeared to want a social life, and I felt she made it clear she was NO ONE’S PROPERTY.

All JMO

BBM
Odd that neither of them did, isn't it? I think that AW was likely submissive to G3. The boys grew up in that environment where Mom stays home, helps on the farm, cooks hot meals, and dotes on husband and kids. If that's what one chooses, more power to them. I was not a stay-at-home mother, but my mother was for most of my childhood and there is nothing lazy about staying home w/the kids, especially on a farm. However, if that's what you want in a wife, ya better make sure that's what they want too. Edit: I think both boys were enamored with their gf's outgoing, large, personalities. They didn't realize that, like a lot of men, that wasn't going to change with a piece of paper or a tatted on wedding band.

 

[rsd1200]

You asked me who I thought would go to trial first and I was hoping you would tell me! I would really like to hear what a criminal trial lawyer would say about it. A criminal trial attorney would know what the best strategy would be. I think going first is either the best thing to do or the worst thing to do.

And yes Jake did say he checked Kylie's toe for a family trait, he said a hammer toe. That's how they got the nickname: "The Hammer Toe Clan."
But I don't believe anything he says. I believe he knew Kylie wasn't his and is giving out a false narrative for his own benefit.
I even think Hanna getting pregnant with another man's child was a motive in the murders.

Jake had said he thought Hanna was going through a phase and would come back to him (looking for the article link). If Kylie was his child there would have been a greater chance Hanna would have come back to him. When he found out the baby wasn't his and she had moved on with 2 other boyfriends, he knew it was over for good.

Now there would permanently be another man in Hanna's life, Kylie's dad, and this is another reason for the murders.

It's no accident the entire murder was planned during Hanna's pregnancy. Who plans someone's murder during their pregnancy, then murders them directly after? A scorned lover.

If he thought Kylie might be his, he would at the very least have put her in her crib to help keep her safe. Lying in a bloody bed where she's alone for 5 plus hours and where she could have been smothered, is not what someone does when they think they might be the dad to that baby.

.....This is just my own opinion.....2 Cents.....

BBM
She'd moved on. He wasn't going to be in the picture as daddy. HMR made very clear that there was new daddy in town. CH. Until CH there was no man ever posted on her main FB. No other "In A Relationship" status updates. No pics of another man playing with S. I think that if JW was insanely jealous of anyone, CH would be the one. I've thought for awhile that he could've been the straw.

 

[Area52]

Oxygen channel showing "The Piketon Family Murders" at 12:00

 

[sunshineray]

You asked me who I thought would go to trial first and I was hoping you would tell me! I would really like to hear what a criminal trial lawyer would say about it. A criminal trial attorney would know what the best strategy would be. I think going first is either the best thing to do or the worst thing to do.

And yes Jake did say he checked Kylie's toe for a family trait, he said a hammer toe. That's how they got the nickname: "The Hammer Toe Clan."
But I don't believe anything he says. I believe he knew Kylie wasn't his and is giving out a false narrative for his own benefit.
I even think Hanna getting pregnant with another man's child was a motive in the murders.

Jake had said he thought Hanna was going through a phase and would come back to him (looking for the article link). If Kylie was his child there would have been a greater chance Hanna would have come back to him. When he found out the baby wasn't his and she had moved on with 2 other boyfriends, he knew it was over for good.

Now there would permanently be another man in Hanna's life, Kylie's dad, and this is another reason for the murders.

It's no accident the entire murder was planned during Hanna's pregnancy. Who plans someone's murder during their pregnancy, then murders them directly after? A scorned lover.

If he thought Kylie might be his, he would at the very least have put her in her crib to help keep her safe. Lying in a bloody bed where she's alone for 5 plus hours and where she could have been smothered, is not what someone does when they think they might be the dad to that baby.

.....This is just my own opinion.....2 Cents.....

I don't know much about the strategies of going first or last but I would yhink going first might not be wanted as the longer the other three have and the more they hear how the prosecution will be presentrd, the more they can counter. JW did go to pre-trial first so maybe that means he's farther along and will come to trial first?

 

[Dudly]

BBM
Odd that neither of them did, isn't it? I think that AW was likely submissive to G3. The boys grew up in that environment where Mom stays home, helps on the farm, cooks hot meals, and dotes on husband and kids. If that's what one chooses, more power to them. I was not a stay-at-home mother, but my mother was for most of my childhood and there is nothing lazy about staying home w/the kids, especially on a farm. However, if that's what you want in a wife, ya better make sure that's what they want too. Edit: I think both boys were enamored with their gf's outgoing, large, personalities. They didn't realize that, like a lot of men, that wasn't going to change with a piece of paper or a tatted on wedding band.

That marriage license is just a piece of paper unless the two parties make it mean something. I knew a couple together for over 50 years with no marriage licenses so it is the people not the paper that makes a bond.
I think HR was JW's first and only girlfriend. She was very pretty and naive. She paid attention to him like no one ever had. He did not want to lose that feeling he got with her. My opinions only, of course...

 

[sunshineray]

Thanks Loomis, good to see you too. You always keep me thinking. Like the women's boot purchase attributed to Angela, as you mentioned, is making me second guess my theory that Angela couldn't have been at the crime scenes.

Who would babysit? If Fred babysat then Fred must know what evil they did. Or Rita for that matter. Who would babysit and not spill the beans besides the great grandmothers?

And what husband and sons in their right minds would want the mother of the house to be there when young mothers (like a daughter to me she said) are shot in the head? What did they do? Give the kids Benadryl so they would sleep deeply, leave them alone, then have Angela as a look out?

I can't wrap my head around Angela being there. To plot and plan yes, but to be there and see it happen? With babies next to mothers? I look at her in court and I just can't comprehend it. Her husband and sons were hunters, not her.

But the boots?

Maybe buying herself boots then makes it look, if every asked, more normal that the men's boots were also purchased? Everybody got boots, so what's the big deal kind of thing?

 

[sunshineray]

Not to be morbid, but I think the full autopsy's (if and when released) will tell a great deal. As will the crimes scene details. From a forensic standpoint they will fill a lot of questions and holes for me at least. Besides CRSr, who fought, who had defensive wounds, whose body was moved... "The crime scenes and wound patterns, especially in the case of DR, who suffered two gunshot wounds to each side of her head and a fifth under her chin. This wound pattern is extremely specific, the offender or offenders chose to shoot Dana in extremely specific locations out of anger? Maybe. Because she’s seen as the core of the conflict? Maybe. What we do know is that Dana’s murder is different than the others in terms of the wound pattern, which raises a red flag and directs us to ask the question: Who is in conflict with Dana?
Crime scene staging is a function of victim relationships meaning only offenders who have some relationship to the victims’ because they know they will be the most likely suspect, so they take precautions on the front end…and on the back end. So did the offender or offenders insert elements of crime scene staging to detract attention from people the Rhodens knew towards pointing the finger at an outsider? I personally did not opine these murders were really a true “mass murder”, but instead individual murders all achieved on the same night to serve the same purpose: to keep a secret, take over their business, or to resolve some other conflict with one or more Rhoden family members in one fell swoop."
Dr. Laura Pettler

Why do you think young HHG received just as many shots as DR?

 

[Tiff23fr]

Why do you think young HHG received just as many shots as DR?

Maybe she had something to do with HR and CG getting together. It could have been seen that DR and HG were the instigators of the relationship falling apart. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

That marriage license is just a piece of paper unless the two parties make it mean something. I knew a couple together for over 50 years with no marriage licenses so it is the people not the paper that makes a bond.
I think HR was JW's first and only girlfriend. She was very pretty and naive. She paid attention to him like no one ever had. He did not want to lose that feeling he got with her. My opinions only, of course...

I've a sib who has been with the same s/o for 20 years. No paper. The paper comes in handy for certain legal things though, especially if you live in a state, like mine, that doesn't recognize cohabitation rights.

Agree, that HMR was likely JW's first GF. I do think JW and HMR were crazy over each other in the first few years, just by reading their SM. I think the two families were good friends at one point too. Then, it seems that something happened in 2014, because that appears to be when everything started to change for the W4. They'd left the FWF where they'd lived for decades, jumped into the Peterson home in early 2014, G4's relationship starts to peter out in late 2014, and so does JW's, and by early 2015, both boys have no wife or fiance. It seems 2014 was not a banner year at the W4's.

In OH, a single mother has sole custodial rights, and HMR & JW had worked out a pretty good arrangement. Much better than many crazy arrangements I've seen. Who watched S while JW worked during his weeks? My bet is on AW. HMR had to know this, and be okay with her watching S. That lends me to think, that things appeared, on the surface, to be going okay. Who would send their child, with whom they enjoyed sole custodial rights, off to stay with the father who they were in a bitter custody dispute with? HMR didn't have to let the child go anywhere with him, see him, or even talk to him, unless a court ordered it, but JW enjoyed very liberal visitation. The Rs/HHG didn't see this coming, imo.

 

[Kyshoegal]

Why do you think young HHG received just as many shots as DR?

I think Tiff23 is correct, I think she facilitated the relationship in the opinion of the W's. I also think there may be a small chance that JW thought Hanna's child was his initially. I've seen some conflicting reports about the autopsy's, as in was DR shot in chin or neck? Most say chin, also CRSr had more decomposition than the others, but by how much? Another detail is bruising, some sources indicate that this is a sign that 2 were beaten. Which 2? And were they beaten or did they struggle/fight? We know CRSr is one, I say DR is the other. Some had skull fractures which mean nothing until we see specifics of the bullet trajectory. I worked for Neurosurgery in a Level 1 trauma center (where I still work). A single GSW to the head can cause a skull to fracture, not to mention 5 at close range. I initially thought these were fairly quick, in and out murders but the more I dig the more I get a sense that's not the case for all 8. It's sad enough in it's own right but to think they suffered is worse. Whoever did this or had part in it lost their humanity some time ago.